Hassan_B Posted June 5, 2009 Originally posted by LT-QA: I think most of us live by pascals gambit, we cannot logically prove that god exists, but probability wise, we have less to lose from just believing than not believing in god. I think that's how I've been reasoning for a long time, but that is a flawed reason, and it suggests that god is petty god that rewards hypocrisy and not genuine goodness. More jumbled questions that are usually on my mind: How do you reconcile free will and destiny? LT, you should speak for yourself. Just because you happened to be plagued with doubts at this moment does not mean that others also don't have certitude in their faith. For some people doubting the truth of Islam never crosses their mind. There are some that even anything considered offensive in the shariah, let alone haram, would not even cross their mind. btw, you might benefit from asking real shaykhs instead of SOL members as we're just average people and only a knowledgeable person can answer such questions... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOB Posted June 6, 2009 May ALLAH s.w guide us all through the righteous path Insha Allah. Salam Aleikum W.W Peace, Love & Unity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lt-Qalbi-Adeyg Posted June 6, 2009 Hassan We aren't robots, doubts are part of life. Our imaan goes up and down, it's not static my friend, you should know that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NASSIR Posted June 7, 2009 C & H, free will holds a person in bondage to his own limited power in the pursuit of some ideal perfection. In the event of failure, it's highly possible that one will take actions to the detriment of his life and the life of others. In this world, you are judged or misjudged on the basis of this finite capacity . Predestination, however, does inculcate the belief to recognize your limited power and that whatever befalls on your person either tragic or good, happens for Allah's sake. This thinking nurtured from childhood years acquires strong faith, compassion and empathy towards others, confidence to reach your potential.Thus, you learn to recognize the triviality of the brief time we live in and how to purge that brief life out of the misery, injustice, prejudices and perpetual hate and war . Islam, since its shining moments, has taught us to build a community of righteousness and to marvel at the mysteries of Allah's creations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedSea Posted June 7, 2009 Originally posted by Nin-Yaaban: in my oppinion religion is a private thing. no one should be asking you about it, and u shouldn't be telling people about it. its between you and allah. "Kuntum Khayra Umatin Ukhrijat li Naas. Tha'muruuna bil macruuf wa tanhawna Canil Munkar". We're considered the best ummah, because we tell what know we spread the good word around. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hassan_B Posted June 7, 2009 Originally posted by Lt-Qalbi-Adeyg: Hassan We aren't robots, doubts are part of life. Our imaan goes up and down, it's not static my friend, you should know that. LT, Have tried asking these questions to a shaykh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NASSIR Posted June 7, 2009 I recommend this new book. It's written by an Afghani historian and professor. A great book and it quite challenges the conventional wisdom. Destiny Disrupted: History of the World through Islamic Eyes By Tamim Ansary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hassan_B Posted June 7, 2009 I think most of us live by pascals gambit, we cannot logically prove that god exists, but probability wise, we have less to lose from just believing than not believing in god. I think that's how I've been reasoning for a long time, but that is a flawed reason, and it suggests that god is petty god that rewards hypocrisy and not genuine goodness. More jumbled questions that are usually on my mind: How do you reconcile free will and destiny? Brother LT, I take back what I said. I thought you said 'all' but looking back it is clear you said most. So I was hasty to judgment. Please forgive me for my pre-mature judgment, it was totally uncalled for! As far as free will goes, all that we need to know is that we have it and that we are responsible for our choices. How this works is just simply one of those things that is beyond the capacity of the human intellect. A better translation of Qadr (predestination) is predetermination. Such that everything is predetermined with respect to Allah's complete knowledge and will. This means nothing happens haphazardly. But still Allah decreed that our actions be based on choice to choose between good and evil. Because He knows what our choices will be before they occur does not negate the fact that our actions are based on choice for which we are responsible for. As for as for existence of Allah the Exalted goes, the creation of our environment and our surroundings is a sufficient proof. People have different things that gives them certainty of their lord. For myself it is hard to imagine that I came from a single cell, and all the information and direction of my whole physical being was encoded in the single cell and now in every cell in my body. A universe with such perfect order must have a ruler to say all this came together haphazardly is truly bizarre. Also, look at the proofs of the Qur'an! and most importantly the life of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). The Qur'an says that Allah will preserve this book and indeed He preserved it and the ways of His Messenger (PBUH) like no other. This is a miracle onto its own. Wallahu aclam. Again, please forgive me for any ill feelings! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ADNAAN Posted June 7, 2009 Originally posted by NASSIR: I recommend this new book. It's written by an Afghani historian and professor. A great book and it quite challenges the conventional wisdom. Destiny Disrupted: History of the World through Islamic Eyes By Tamim Ansary It is an interesting read indeed; why not add it to Duke’s book club thread thanks for sharing though. On a different note, this is the second author of Afghanistani origin that I have come to appreciate as of late. The first is Khaled Husseni the author of the “The Kite Runner”. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
osman_nz Posted June 7, 2009 Qalbi, where u are born and religion go hand in hand your correct. The prophet was born in arabia from pagan parents and pagan society but he went out and seeked Allah and not just accept the way his society lived. So if u lived in kalahari it would be up to you to seek knowledge about the one who created you, and those who take 1 step towards Allah, He takes 2 steps towards them. So u need to put in the effort to seek the lord and not just accept the status quo of allowing your environment kill the need for u to seek knowledge about the creator. Don't fall into that trap of thinking environment determines everything, yes it plays a role but when it comes to god u must seek him for yourself and not just accept what u been born into or what ur society is. For example my family are salafis but i didn't accept that and seeked my lord and am sufi now. If i just accepted that i was born to salafi parents and i will follow their ways, then that would not be considered true belif but blind belief. Blind belief is no better then disbelief. The quran does mention that u should not rely upon just accepting your father traditions but must seek the truth yourself.. I hope that helps.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
osman_nz Posted June 7, 2009 Lt Qalbi, and seeing that your most likely an atheist/agnostic I assume you would accept evidence, logic, and reasoning to prove or disprove a case which is totally understanable. Well you believe that nature created us as evolution states. But logically how can nature create something that will destroy it? Is it logical to create something that will destroy it? of course not.. Human beings are destroying the ozone layer, climate change, eco-system of animal widlife is being extinct, and many more examples of the damages human's are causing to nature. Infact with the capability of nuclear bombs, America has the capacity to destroy the whole world 8 times OVERS...that is 8 times over..nothing will grow on the earth, every living form will be dead...plants, animals, etc. So would nature create something that would destroy it..if it did then that surely is illogical...and atheist wouldn't accept an illogical reasoning. God may have used evolution and their strong arguments from that in the quran even, but to say god doesn't control the world, would suffice to mean that nature created something which would end up destroying her. And that my friend is totally unacceptable logic and no reasonable person can accept u would create something that will destroy you...this gives a good indication that it maybe nature who formed us...and the quran says that every living thing is created from water, we all go back to one source and the materalial used to create us was nature and the quran says that even that we are product of earth soil but it doesn't mean that nature is god, it just means nature was the substance god used to create us...that is the part atheists miss...they see nature the substance of life as god but forget that god says in his word that he uses nature to form everything.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hassan_B Posted June 7, 2009 Originally posted by LT-QA: Indhoos typo, i meant goats. goodir no, not an atheist. just pondering. To everyone, this topic is not meant to be debated nor is it for controversial purposes, I have no interest in that to be honest. It's genuine thoughts that I've been having lately and I'm expressing it here. The objective isn't to get anyone to convert to my way of thinking, but just to show a different perspective. He says he is not an atheist, so Insha-Allah lets assume the best. LT- I was reading your post on God being petty. Our teacher was actually going over this. He said many people confuse God with people and think that He has motives for His actions. This is not the case. Humans have motives for doing things because they want to gain something. For example your attempting to gain some knowledge, and this is possible because you and I are deficient in knowledge. However, Allah is already perfect, He does not need anything or anyone so therefore he can not have motives. Therefore to say that he is petty or vengeful is to say that He wants revenge for something done to Him. But this impossible, He says, I believe in a Hadith Qudsi, that were the first of you and the last of you, the jinn of you and the mankind of you were as disobedient as the most disobedient among you you would not decrease in the least My Kingdom. So it is really important not to imagine Allah as a more powerful human being. He is unlike anything you can imagine. "Vision comprehends Him not, but He comprehends (all) vision. He is the Subtile, the Aware." 6:103 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dhagax-Tuur Posted June 7, 2009 Allah loves to be worshipped through 'ilm (knowledge). Therefore, doubting your faith/deen, if one is positive, will hopefully lead to good conclusion. It's good to question, but watch it, 'cuz if you take it too far, it is NOT recommended. Qalbi Dhagax (nin iyo magacii waa is leeyihiin), be sincere in your soul-searching... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
osman_nz Posted June 7, 2009 LT Qalbi...if ppl start worshipping god when their getting older and near death, how does that reflect badly on Allah? This reflects badly on them, but has totally nothing to do with Allah. Maybe u need to stop judging the actions of people and putting on Allah because that is totally unfair. I am sure u wouldn't like if we judged you because of the action's of your father. So at least offer the same courtesy to the lord, sure their are hypocrit muslims, extreme muslims, alcoholic muslims, rapist muslims, murdering muslims, all sorts but that is because they decide that for themselves and shouldn't reflect on Allah because he never forces them to do it. Infact Allah send the quran as warning for us to reflect on it before we do something silly, because just becuz if someone gets away with murder on earth, doesn't mean Allah will let him get away with it. What sort of God would he be if he didn't punish ppl who did bad, he would be an unfair god if he didn't punish bad deeds and reward good deeds. Imagine this a murderer gets charged for 1st degree murder in America and he is taken before the court the judge can ignore the law of the land and let him free or he could punish him according to the law of the land. If the judge let the murderer get away free with the murder he would be very good merciful person to the person who was convicted because he spared his life...but would he be fair to the majority of ppl who are good law abiding citizens..of course not, he would be an unfair judge for not upholding the law. The second choice is the judge sentences the man to death penalty for taking the life of someone else, everyone in society now will respond and say "justice has been served" and the judge will be looked upon as fair person. The same goes for Allah, U think he enjoys sending ppl to hell, of course not he doesn't but he has to remain FAIR and uphold he's own law and punish that person. If Allah pardons him for his sins this means Allah doesn't follow his own law and therefore why should anyone else...and it will also show that he is not fair god because he is not punishing bad ppl...good ppl and bad ppl need to be rewarded for what they earn for themselves...this is the true justice and Allah says he will always uphold that in the quran. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sherban Shabeel Posted June 7, 2009 In my experience, everyone gets several clues throughout one's life that God really does exist. You can interpret them as you wish, but most of the time you'll stumble across something that can only be explained through the existence of a higher intelligence. But if you are troubled by questions and doubts, don't worry about it. Just live a good life, be decent to those around you and do as much good as you want. Because if you choose to do evil, there will always be someone nastier than you, it's a path on which you can never win. But if you do good, every good deed you do is an absolute in itself. So live a fulfilling life by being a decent human being and helping those around you, and hopefully one day God will show Himself to you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
