Randomness of Religion

[Lt-Qalbi-Adeyg]

Indhoos

 

typo, i meant goats.

 

goodir

 

no, not an atheist. just pondering.

 

To everyone, this topic is not meant to be debated nor is it for controversial purposes, I have no interest in that to be honest. It's genuine thoughts that I've been having lately and I'm expressing it here. The objective isn't to get anyone to convert to my way of thinking, but just to show a different perspective.

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Originally posted by LT-QA:

I think most of us live by pascals gambit, we cannot logically prove that god exists, but probability wise, we have less to lose from just believing than not believing in god. I think that's how I've been reasoning for a long time, but that is a flawed reason, and it suggests that god is petty god that rewards hypocrisy and not genuine goodness.

Naftaada ayaa u been sheegeysaa and not to Eebbe. "Believing" while not really believing in the true faith -- Rabigagagaa wuula socdaa beenta nafsadaada u sheegeysid.

 

Faith is not about calculations and one's limited rational reasons. It is not either about taking chances and drawing lots. You either fully believe in it or waaka socon kartaa.

 

So all those rituals oo dadka lagu tusinaayo and at the same time not sure about how true one believes in, to me, is a waste of time and crime against one's true self.

[Blessed]

Religion may be random to some but faith never is. You either believe in God or don't, there's no in between.

[NGONGE]

Originally posted by chocolate & honey:

quote: Just some jumbled thoughts of a man slowly loosing his religion.

Who is that man? If it is you, please make some soul searching ASAP. It is a terrible thing to lose your faith in Allah. In sha'llah you will be guided.

Heh! Looks to me like he's already doing exactly what you're asking him to do.

 

Easy with the moral panic, people. Just imagine if the poster was not Muslim and was still asking you these questions. Being born Muslim DOES NOT exclude you from having your own doubts. The only way to deal with such doubts is to ponder, question and contemplate.

 

LT,

 

The good news here is that your choices are much clearer than those of the river people or even nabi Ibrahim. You have already dismissed the concept of river spirits as ludicrous and, therefore, you will probably dismiss all similar deities. In (half) agreeing with Pascal, you also accepted the existence of the idea of an all knowing, all seeing god. So it looks like you have already narrowed your search. To believe or not to believe! There is the rub.

[N.O.R.F]

The Story of Prophet Saleh

 

:cool:

[N.O.R.F]

A Muslim's Belief in a Nutshell - 6 min video

[Khayr]

without hell, how many people would be religious? it seems to me that peoples main motivation for being religious is to avoid hell, hence as they get older and are days away from the grimreapers grip, they start to become religious out of fear.

Salamz,

 

Understanding the psychology of Man is important and offerring rewards (heaven) and deterrents (hell)is part of how the Divine communicates to the Man.

 

If you worship and obey out of Fear of God, that is one level of Taqwa, the higher being GOD Conscious because you LOVE GOD, because you LOVE THE GOOD because the GOOD is BEAUTIFUL.

 

In the islamic paradigm, the Shariah is there for the masses and we are urged to stay within the matrix of the Shariah i.e. doing the fundmentals (5 daily prayers, staying away from the Haram(that which is forbidden) etc.).

 

For those that want more, then let them strive for the GOOD towards the GOOD - GOD. For nothing can suffice them except the GOOD - GOD.

[Chocolate and Honey]

How do you reconcile free will and destiny?

It is ok to question some aspects of our religion but never the existance of God because "proving" his existance is like proving a negative. The point is not to calculate with your limited understanding of things beyond your grasp and proceed with findings but to beleive. The ability to beleive is really a gift from God himself. As Allah said;

Those whom Allah (in His plan) willeth to guide,- He openeth their breast to Islam; those whom He willeth to leave straying,- He maketh their breast close and constricted,

as if they had to climb up to the skies

So when doubts start pouring, it is hard to reconcile what you can see with whats beyond.

The question of free will used to bother me when I was younger. I once heard a hadith that said something to the affect of "if someone is meant to go to hell; they'll do good deeds all their lives but when they're nearing the end, they change the course of their actions so they end up in hell :confused: because they were meant to go to hell from the start." And I thought, wow thats not free will. Whats the point of staying on the right path if everything is predestined?

After extensive research and inquiries and "naa ilaah ka cabso" I found another Hadith that said " everyone has two houses in the after life; one in hell and one in heaven";therefore, if you do good, you'll go to heaven and if you do evil you'll go to hell. Then it clicked. Thats FREE WILL.

So God is free will. He gave us a formula for success if you will and it is up to you if you wanna follow it or not. Thats why God doesnt struck down evil doers because after all they have a CHOICE to be bad.

[Abu-Salman]

Doesn't it get to you, that depending on where you are born determines what religion you are. If i was unfortunate enough to be born in some remote village in the kalhari or something to some african tribe, what would I know about islam or any organized religion for that matter?

 

Also, without hell, how many people would be religious? it seems to me that peoples main motivation for being religious is to avoid hell, hence as they get older and are days away from the grimreapers grip, they start to become religious out of fear.

Firstly, for those of us not yet reached by revelation, a constant throughout human history with prophets raised accross nations, one school of thought is that they will be tested in the afterlife for having not received the guidance; likewise probably for those not reached by its undistorted form (including our contemporaries).

 

The crux of the matter is that one is bound to struggle towards the truth, fully exercising all his abilities, intellectual and otherwise.

 

Indeed, one of the main purposes of the Qur'aan is precisely to stimulate in that regards by inviting us to ponder on natural phenomena as well as our own selves or travel and study the fate of previous nations, noting human never-ending talent for self-delusion and self-justifying, spurious claims etc.

 

Yet, Islamically, the concept of reward, inherent to human nature and central to its motivation, do apply to both temporal life and eternal life as the Sunnah encompass every act or sphere of our existence.

 

Failing in our covenant as witness towards the rest of humankind means we reap the consequences at both the individual and communal level, as the Qur'aan exhort us to be a living testimony for the rest of mankind.

 

Thus, deliberately neglecting the learning and practice of our faith is indeed a most serious offence since we pledged to be both role model and guide for the rest of mankind through abiding by the highest ethical standards.

 

Of course, the implication which is plain to be observed at every level and accross the vicissitude of the human odyssey whether it be in terms of socio-economics or historical warfare and oppression etc, is that no ethical system could be systematic let alone sustainable in the absence of a coherent entire way of life and thinking, ie islam or submission to Allah uniqueness (centrality of Tawhid unlike other pseudo-monotheistic beilefs).

 

Hence, to pick randoms illustrations among an infinity, while the proeminent architects of Nazi atrocities originated from devout catholic homes, it is also doubtful whether an Ayan Hersi would have approached fully Pagan Vikings or Celts for that matter...

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

Losing my religion. Why I recently walked away from Christianity.

By theBEattitude

 

I was planning to write up a detailed story about my Christian life and the recent rejection of my faith. But my goal is not to build a case to prove I believed in God or to demonstrate how good of a Christian I was. I did truly believe in God for most of my life and worshiped and prayed to him daily. I believed he was at work in my life at all times and using me to touch other people’s lives.

 

losing-my-religion

So you might be wondering what changed.

 

The change was a culmination of things that I could no longer ignore. Faith is belief in the unseen and unprovable, but still requires a foundation for that faith. With the countless religions of the world, I began to question why the god of the Bible is more believable than all other gods worshiped on earth. With the mountain of evidence staring me in the face, my faith began to die.

 

Last fall, I finally moved past guilt and admitted to myself that I no longer believe in Jesus or the god of the Bible. Surprisingly it was a relief. Not because I wanted to run wild and sin freely, but because I no longer felt the weight a Christian carries. The weight of guilt, unworthiness and fear of god’s judgement. I continue to spend my days striving to be a good husband, father and son. I help others in need around me as often as I can. The big difference is I do these things today because it brings me joy, not because I believe it brings an imaginary god joy.

 

For those wondering, here is a condensed “Top 20 List” of the things that led to my rejection of Christianity.

 

1. God is wrathful, jealous, hateful, and kills nations of people like it is a bodily function. He is certainly not just or “holy” in nature.

2. The act of throwing people into infinite torture and punishment for not believing a Jewish guy from 2,000 years ago was God’s son, or unknowingly worshiping the wrong god, is extremely cruel and sadistic.

3. The statements, “God works in mysterious ways,” or “It will all make sense in heaven,” are little more than irrational cop outs. This God allows horrible atrocities to be committed against innocent men, women and children every day.

4. Bloody animal and human sacrifices are illogical demands by a divine god as payment for petty wrong doings. These actions are no different the rituals of archaic pagan religions. Not to mention the bizarre ritual of symbolically drinking human blood and eating human flesh.

5. If God loves us and wants us to know and believe in him, why be so completely invisible? What is the purpose of being so illusive to those who believe and worship him?

6. God never manifests himself or performs miracles as he regularly did for the Israelites in Old Testament stories.

7. Prayers are never answered. Certainly not in the way Jesus described. Prayer has absolutely no affect on the world around us.

8. Jesus did not fulfill major Old Testament prophesies or even fulfill his own promises and predictions.

9. The authors of much of the Bible are unknown. And of these unknown authors, the men who wrote the gospels likely never even met Jesus considering they were written 40-70 years after his death. A far cry from reliable testimony.

10. The Bible is repeatedly contradictory with itself, reality, and the laws of morality. Couldn’t god inspire a less poorly written book?

11. The Bible is open to interpretation. Everyone interprets it in the way that suits them best or serves their purposes.

12. Throughout history, Christians have justified horrific actions by the Bible and its teaching.

13. The Bible promotes hate and persecution against women, homosexuals and those who worship other gods or no god at all.

14. According to the Bible, nearly 70% percent of the people in the world will burn in hell because they don’t believe Jesus was the son of God.

15. The only reason I was a Christian was because I was indoctrinated into the religion as a child as a result of the culture and region of the world in which I was born.

16. Christianity has no more rational or factual foundation than any other religion on earth that I openly reject.

17. The Christian church is disjointed and can’t even agree with one another.

18. Christians are not at all ethically or morally different from non-Christians.

19. Today, powerful Christian church leaders steal, lie and molest young children. The church repeatedly attempts to cover up these atrocities, only to reluctantly apologize as a last resort.

20. It is absolutely irrational to continue to believe archaic teaching with the amount of knowledge we’ve gained through science and technology. The Bible reads like a book of primitive folklore, not divinely inspired insight into our true reason for existence.

Thebeattitude.com

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

Noah's Dilemma

[Khayr]

^^^

 

Not a dilemma because Dinosaurs (according to the priests of modern times aka SCIENTISTS) became extinct before humans ever "evolved" into homosapiens.

 

Plus, if Scientists can sell YOU (the avg. person)the idea of the Ice Age and certain species being wiped off the face of the earth, then what is so difficult to believe in the story of prophet Noah (aliyhe asalam).

[Sherban Shabeel]

I believe in evolution and all that other stuff, but I also believe someone must have started all of it.

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

Originally posted by Khayr:

^^^

 

Not a dilemma because Dinosaurs (according to the priests of modern times aka SCIENTISTS) became extinct before humans ever "evolved" into homosapiens.

 

Plus, if Scientists can sell YOU (the avg. person)the idea of the Ice Age and certain species being wiped off the face of the earth, then what is so difficult to believe in the story of prophet Noah (aliyhe asalam).

just a joke and hint, its not extinction part that people find hard to believe.

[Muriidi]

yes but is it not a sin to have a religion...and then islamic even?!!

if you need a religion to get by...it's like buying cigarettes buy a mainstream brand or roll tobacco!

i'm sure Allah understands in these difficult times with all the shady things that go hand in hand one might need a "religion" of some sort...but islamic?!!!

yacniii bal wadaaddada bal waydii: daahyada guriga ma lagu qori karaa quraan,ama dukaan lagu gado cabitaan ma la suri karaa duco ama quraan ?