Afghan on trial for Christianity

[Reality Check]

I think you already have my answer there, whether you want to accept it or not.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^Stoning as punishment for adultery is a method employed by the prophet of Islam. It is not in the Qur’an.

 

I already knew it wasn't in the Quran but you got bigger problem on your hands than Quran not enjoining lapidation for adultery. You see the Quran gives not only the punishment for adultery but the exact nature of the punishment: 100 lashes . In Islam, isn't it true that the Quran has the higher authority over the any other text? When the Quran and Hadiths disagree, should we not always take the Quran over the hadiths? How is it an Old Testament punishment, that is where lapidation for adultery most likely came from, is attributed to Allah all the while the Quran, the word of Allah, is in stark contradiction of it?

 

 

So do you believe the Sunnah of prophet Muhammad or not? answer that simple question, saaxiib.

I have already answered this question many times before and it's immaterial to the ensuing discussion.

[juba]

pple are going in cirlcles!

 

XIIN i know u are dying to prove to SB that he is a non believer but i think ur wasting ur time, although i understand ur frustration.

 

XIIN u also say that Afghanistan cannot possibly practice Shirciaa law under occupation, what about the Taliban, was that correct Shirciaa law?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by juba:

pple are going in cirlcles!

XIIN i know u are dying to prove to SB that he is a non believer but i think ur wasting ur time, although i understand ur frustration.

No one can prove anyone non-believer just as no one can prove anyone a believer. I don't think you understand what prove entails.

 

But that aside, what Xiin is trying to do but is miserably failing is put forth a tenable arguement against my rejection of some Ahadith for the following reasons:

 

1. The Sunnah/ahadith are there so we know the prophet's (scw) example not to follow his directives.

 

2. Only tiny portion of Ahadith are commands ascribed to prophet (scw). Making the arguement the Ahadith are to be followed in toto rather weak.

 

3. Since we know some of the Sunnah/Ahadith are untrue because they were fabricated or whatever, any one of them can be untrue. Although we can assign degrees of believability to some.

 

Therefore, one can reasonably pick and choose which hadith to accept and which to reject.

[Ibtisam]

the apostate is to be freed and he may well be insane anyway........

 

'Mental issues'

 

Earlier, Mr Rahman's family asked the court to dismiss the case against him, saying he suffered from mental illness.

 

Supreme Court Judge Ansarullah Mawlavizada told the BBC there was considerable doubt that Mr Rahman was fit to stand trial.

 

According to Judge Mawlavizada, Mr Rahman appeared "disturbed".

 

He said the accused man's relatives had told the authorities he was insane and that they claimed Mr Rahman had said he heard strange voices in his head.

 

The judge also said it was not clear if the accused was really an Afghan or a citizen of another country.

 

Mr Rahman has lived outside Afghanistan for 16 years and is believed to have converted to Christianity during a stay in Germany.

 

source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4847342.stm

 

in any case shirah law is 16yrs too late.

 

Ansarullah Mawlafizada, the trial judge, say

 

"Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, kindness and integrity. That is why we have told him if he regrets what he did, then we will forgive him."

 

My comment: How peaceful, how tolerant, how kind, how forgiving. he should have just kept quiet :rolleyes:

[Kashafa]

My comment: How peaceful, how tolerant, how kind, how forgiving. he should have just kept quiet

Exactly. Why don't you go ahead and try converting to Christianity, too. I promise we'll be peaceful, tolerant, and all that fuzzy and warm-on-the-inside stuff.

[xiinfaniin]

Juba, I was not trying to prove that he is a nonbeliever. Rather I was trying to expose that he is imposter. The man has no knowledge on what he is talking about. His obsession about anything Shariica is jus bizarre.

 

Waryee kaagan wareersan aka Socod-badane, adeer don’t test our patience. Why do you go in circle just answer that simple question. Do you believe sunnatu al Mustafa ? If you do how do you reconcile your rejection of the xad of the married adulterer with your believe? If you don’t believe the Sunnah then you can’t be a Muslim. Who says so? The Qur’an says so. Need a proof of that? Just ask.

 

If you are entertaining to pick and choose which Sunnah to believe and which one not to believe based on your taste, then again you can’t be a Muslim. The proof is in the Qur’an. As I said before it is an enormous task to catch a charlatan but I feel like I finally succeeded to tear down some layers of your façade. Sham personalities thrive under the gloom of falsity. If you bother to come back try to be a man address those questions saaxiib. I know it is hard but at least try and I will help you find a way out. I promise.

[Haneefah]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

no Sunnah for me.

Quran is my only guide.

Hope that clears things up for you, Xiin.

[xiinfaniin]

^^That’s very definitive answer, which highlights how shameless this fraudulent really is. I know try he will as he never tires to put a spin on everything if he could but we all now know that a rejecter of the Sunnah could not be possibly considered a Muslim . That’s the final verdict, supported by numerous verses in the Qur’an, and so I rest my case.

 

Thanks abraar for the timely reminder. It proved to be a big buster. I knew there were countless unsupported claims and assertions that this character had made but I never bothered to dig his dirty. I hope, just hope, he hides his face from the public now.

[N.O.R.F]

^^Xiin, please explain to SB who 'relayed' the Quran to the masses. If one does not believe in the sayings of Mohammed SCWS then why does he believe in the Quran? The Quran was not sent down in book form and was actually written 'after' the death of the prophet SCWS.

 

brick-wall syndrone

[nuune]

Subxaanallaah.

 

To Socod-Badne, read this verse if you are trully following what the Quran is sayin, you said the Quran is your only source, and you don't believe the Sunnah, lets see!

 

"...And whatsoever the Messenger giveth you, take it, and whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain(from it), and keep your duty to Allah..."

 

"wamaa aataakumu rasuulu fakhuthuuhu, wamaa nahaakum canhu fantahuu"

 

 

if your answer to that verse is yes I am following what the Prophet is saying and telling us to do, then your claim that you don't believe the Sunnah is just to create arguments and nonesense debates etc,

 

and if you don't believe what the verse of the Quran is saying, then your claim that the Quran is your source doesn't fit here.

[Pi]

SB, dude, think your ideas through really. You cant even seem to get your defintions straight. And once you dont even know what the words you are talking about really mean, you just draw yawns and sighs.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

but we all now know that a rejecter of the Sunnah could

not

be possibly considered a

Muslim

. That’s the final verdict, supported by numerous verses in the Qur’an, and so I rest my case.

 

What verdict? You haven't presented a tenable arguement against my position let alone a verdict. All you keep doing is making one unsubstantiated accusation after another.

 

What's more, you should read what I actually wrote rather than take one or 2 sentenses and dishonestly misrepresent what I said. Here what I said in this thread:

 

I don't reject what prophet (Scw) said or did.

 

As well as explianing oodles of other times that my rejection of the Sunnah, the alledged sayings and actions of prophet Mahammed (Scw), is over its reliability as authentic source. I simply don't trust: so & so heard from so & so who heard from so & so the prophet (scw) say ________. In this episode, my rejection of the purported Sunnah of the prophet was only strengthened. We all learned how the Sharia Law says the prophet (scw) ordered lapidation as the penalty for adultery while the Quran enjoins only 100 lashes. How can Allah's messanger contradict Allah explicit and lucid instructions? One has to be wrong and in my view it is the alleged Sunnah. I chose to rely on the Quran as the most accurate and reliable source for my faith. And since the prophet's real sunnah IS the Quran, I'm not really rejecting the Sunnah per se am I? That is my decision and I don't have to explain it to you or anyone else.

 

Out of the two of us, regarding matters of article of faith, you're the one in more precarious position. Since you're clearly disobeying Allah's instructions and still claiming to be a muslim. How can you as loyal supporter of Sharia law as divine reconsile with the contradiction presented by the punishment for adultery? You know, when two things contradict, it usually means one is wrong and one is right. So which is it? The Quran's punishment or Sharia's?

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by nuune:

Subxaanallaah.

 

To

Socod-Badne, read this verse if you are trully following what the Quran is sayin, you said the Quran is your only source, and you don't believe the Sunnah, lets see!

 

"...And whatsoever the Messenger giveth you, take it, and whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain(from it), and keep your duty to Allah..."

 

I'm fine with that and had you actually reading without any pre-concieved notions of my positions, you would've noted I never said I don't or won't obey the prophet's suggestions. Alleged sayings of the prophet's actions and speechs don't do it for me, even more so when they contradict the Quran.

 

 

if your answer to that verse is yes I am following what the Prophet is saying and telling us to do, then your claim that you don't believe the Sunnah is just to create arguments and nonesense debates etc,

 

Only if we had a source containing the Sunnah. But we don't, we only have an alleged sayings and doings. I think here is where the disagreements stem from. You guys treat the Sahih Hadiths which contain the Sunnah as incontestable true words of the prophet (scw) while I view them as nothing more than hearsays.

[xiinfaniin]

^Nimaan sharaca diineed shaynaba ka suureyn

Haddii aad u sheegtana shaqfadloo an garanayn

Oo kula shikkaayooin illeen waa shiddiyo hoog!

 

By what criterion have you accepted the Qur’an and rejected the Sunnah? Every Muslim knows, except you, that it is the method of narrating how we got what we have (Qur’an & Sunnah). Competent and reliable men with unimpeachable integrity passed it down to us. SB, you are presenting an argument that can’t even persuade a first grader.

 

War iska aamu.