Afghan on trial for Christianity

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Pretty Tone:

Hey Tyrone weren’t *****ing about discrimination the other day? You were threatening to blow up on this society because you couldn’t find dash of equality due to the fact that you were black…. "then stop living under system that consigns it inferior status" TAKE YOUR BLACK AZZ OVER TO AFRICA OR SOMETHING NIGGERS like y ou ARE NOT WELCOME

You wanna say that again? This time: less psychobabble, little more cogent thought. OK?

 

 

Thanks!

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Viking:

Why should it matter to you whether it is 100 lashes or stoning? You are afterall against Divine Law being implemented.

 

 

Listen, forget about what I belief or for that matter what you or others belief. Just produce the Quranic verse commanding stoning as punishment for adultery. Is that too much to ask?

 

If you can't because its not there, then just say so.

[xiinfaniin]

^^Stoning as punishment for adultery is a method employed by the prophet of Islam. It is not in the Qur’an. It is in the sound Sunnah of our prophet and a tradition upheld by all the subsequent Islamic governments.

 

 

So do you believe the Sunnah of prophet Muhammad or not? answer that simple question, saaxiib.

[Johnny B]

^^ Again another fraudulent attempt on Socod_Badne´s persona instead of his excellent view-points, devoid of subject matter and a much needed sincerity.

As usual, sputtering juggernaut and full of flagging views good Xiin appeals to our gullibility , particularly the emotions of all those whose views were trembled and bulldozed by SB´s vivid and rigorous posts.

 

Good Xiin , now that you worded the application of the quasi-Sharia where you stone people to death instead of the 100 lashes mentioned in the Quran as a prophetly act hence 'sunnah' and islamic smell more like an Arabic tradition . and in the light of the contradiction that raises from what Allah says in the Quran and what the prophet does can only leave a huge swath of middle ground, needlessly to mention the deep chasm between 100 lashes and stoning to death .

we´d like to see how you justify the killing for having a different faith, that would surely symbolize your willful disdain of reality.

 

Any objective analysis will conclude that the reason good Xiin and other indivituals are attacking SB´s persona is becouse he presented a strong view about the subject matter and supported it raionally,and that left SB´s opponents so terrified of dealing with what the loss of their views meant to their personal views of the faith, so attacking his persona is more of realizable than rebutting SB´s vivid points.

 

Good Xiin , though i´m used to your judgemental attitude ,you made me ( and every reasonable person ) gag every time you pretentiously tried to cut a swath., It is pusillanimous if not dishonest for an observant forum co-user to say otherwise.

[Khadir]

When he was arrested last month he was found to be carrying a bible and charged with rejecting Islam which is punishable by death in Afghanistan.

 

Unbelievable, How is it possible to charge a man with " rejecting Islam" in a mixed religious country not ruled or governed by muslims? ....rejecting Islam is not punishable by death, we can not be the judge of people's faith, the apostate laws in Shariah apply to times of opression, but not in peace, and especially not to alone individuals practicing peacefully and privately in his own home...It is between Allah and him.

[N.O.R.F]

They are talking to this guy in his prison sell to try and re-convert him. They are actually trying to save him from the torment of hell fire.

[RedSea]

assalamu Calaykum,

SUBXANALLAH GUYS.

Islam isn't religion based on human logic, learn the religion as it was presented to you by the prophet SCW in the Hadiths and from the revelation of Allah(Quran then you can have say and an opinion that really matters. But as long as you people can't even explain the question posed by Abdulnoor of what is Sharia?

 

I could go on and on and write pages to explain and quote from the Hadith and the Qur'an supporting the act of the issue regarding the trial in Afghanistan,but I won't do that, because even if I did it would be pooring gold (knowledge) into empty space(your minds). There is no point of that at moment, because I am sure many more have done that, but unfortunately people don't take anything out of it, they rather chit chat back and forth forever. I have seen that happen here with topics regarding religion where people who are so arogant of their own faith did. I expect such comments from non Muslims but never from a Muslims themselves.

 

P.s, I thank those brothers who are puting up their effort just to try to enlighten you people, but it's you just won't listen, do you?

 

Assalamu Calaykum with really sad face. :confused:

[Reality Check]

In my personal opinion, I wouldn't live in a country that practiced Shari'a Laws.

 

Here's my argument: I'm not going to follow a bunch of laws that even the scholars had disagreeing opinions on. What two countries practice the shari'a the same way? What country practices justly? What about the different schools of thoughts? or even different sects? Who's right? Who's Wrong?

 

I'd rather let GOD (saw) make that JUDGEMENT.

 

Would that make me a non-muslim?

[xiinfaniin]

^^DA, define what you’re apposing then you can get a fair answer to your Q. are you against Shariica or how some countries practice it? Come back with some clarity saaxiib.

 

JB, With all fairness I value your stand: it has been consistent. You don’t believe what we believe. That’s fine. That does not mean I endorse it. It means I acknowledge it. Note the difference. Now the problem with your friend is that he is not brave enough to desert our camp and join yours. His is a wobbling of sort; veering between doubt and rejection. That, I thought, is not an admirable thing and when I saw you wasting your ink on its praise I called you out on it. I pointed the contradictions of his stand. Interestingly enough when SB came back he simply sidestepped the challenge and hid his face with his evasive style. I pursued him with another inquiry about his stance on the Sunnah of the prophet.

 

 

Now here we have you, good JB, coming to the rescue of this sinking soul. But you are ill equipped, I am afraid, to offer any meaningful help. If you insist the value of your hand though, let me give you some pointers as to what I am taking issue with. SB, I believe, is an intelligent person and seems to have possessed some secular knowledge. But he also makes some interesting remarks and assertions about fundamental religious jurisprudences and theologies. In doing so, he needlessly exhibits compounded ignorance that’s beyond salvage. When some attempted to correct him, he even pushed further with his voyage and refused to learn. That I thought is a sign of insincere character. Hence, the reason I gave him his fitting and proper description.

 

That was then. Now let’s recap some of his greatest plunders and see if you, and him together, can aptly address it. Use all the logic you could yield but don’t disappoint the gallery please.

 

Plunder # 1—Shariicah is unfounded and not needed--and he is still a faithful Muslim :confused: !

Plunder#2---Sunnah is not authentic and not needed---and he is still able to perform his daily prayers :confused: !

Plunder#3----If it is not in the Qur’an, it has no validity--and he is still pays Zakaah, performs his prayers, and does the wuduu :confused: !

Plunder#4---Muslim scholars are no of service to us.

 

You see such absurdities have the power to turn our loudest laughter into grief. With all of that plunders he still wants us to seriously believe that he adheres to the Islamic faith. I, in turn, pointed out the hard truth about his stance: it is very contradictory and incoherent. If you are a Muslim, I said, you can’t contradict fundamental principles of your faith. It is not feasible for you to believe in Allah, for instance, and in the same breath deny his Shariicah! You can’t reject the Sunnah of Muhammad and accept the Qur’an when he delivers both. There is nothing between faith and faithless. The only thing between them is void, I say.

 

Remember brave JB that we are talking about a person who claims to be Muslim and yet chooses to contradict the very faith he confesses to have believed. Remember we are not talking how a faithless person outside of Islamic fold presents his argument. I thought you would choose your battles carefully but if you smell victory in this one, bring it on and lets have one, I say.

 

As to your assertion that there is a gap between what Qur’an decrees and what the Sunnah I cited exacts that, I would say, is a rushed statement. It takes more lectures to instruct you the science of fiqh and Islamic jurisprudence, but JB-yow the two don’t contradict saaxiib. The prophet, with his Sunnah, is the sole interpreter of the precious book. It’s a well known punishment: those who never married get the lashes while the ones who did mary get stoned to death. Both get purified and while it may sound a bit harsh it might be the only shield for the said sinners from even harsher punishment in hereafter (another world and another reality we Muslims believe).

 

P.S:I personally believe Afghanistan is not fit to apply Islamic Shariicah.

[Reality Check]

Originally posted by xiinfaniin:

^^DA, define what you’re apposing then you can get a fair answer to your Q. are you against Shariica or how some countries practice it? Come back with some clarity saaxiib.

Basically, I choose not to place my rights in the hands of scholars/governments. In the case of the Afghani, they are taking his rights away from him based on their interpretation of the punishement mandated by Allah(saw). If he converts to the wrong religion, let Allah(saw) deal with him. His wrath would be greater that one that any human can inflict upon another human, right?

 

Does anyone know which verse in the Quran addresses the issue of apostates?

[xiinfaniin]

^^That’s a pregnant statement saaxiib. I thought you were asking if one could remain in the fold of Islam and yet appose Islamic Shariica. Let me say that’s no wise possible for Shariica is the only method through which we could accept Allah’s sovereignty. You see, good DA, before you make your choice it would be prudent of you to make sure your choice does not infringe and violate Allah’s rights.

 

To be fair though the issue of apostate is not simple one, and for occupied Afghanistan of all governments to implement it makes one a bit curious.

[Reality Check]

Infringing on Allah's rights because I do not want to live under the Shari'a laws of corrupt states?

 

I don't think so. We do not live in a perfect world, and I hardly doubt there will be a "perfect" Shari'a anytime soon. That day will come when all scholars will agree with each other.

 

I'd take my chances, thanks.

[makalajabti]

When I read some of the messages here, I just can't believe it. How can you be pro-sharia? It's beyond my understanding.

You need "Enlightenment", a new wisdom and understanding of our Religion.

[Pi]

Nevermind.

[xiinfaniin]

Originally posted by Devil's Advocate:

Infringing on Allah's rights because I do not want to live under the Shari'a laws of corrupt states?

 

I don't think so. We do not live in a perfect world, and I hardly doubt there will be a "perfect" Shari'a anytime soon. That day will come when all scholars will agree with each other.

 

I'd take my chances, thanks.

Which one is it, good DA? All Muslim scholars agreeing each other or Shariica implemented under honest and legitimate government? If it’s the latter, I think your caution is justified and it is a matter that concerns all Muslims. But if you are really serious about all Muslim scholars agreeing then you must have resolved not to live under Islamic Shariica. A decision uncharacteristic of a faithful Muslim, mind you.

 

Muslim scholars agree on the fundamentals of the Shariica but disagree on some details of it. For genuine reasons Muslim scholars arrived various interpretations and derivations of certain parts of the Shariica. Not just the xuduud, but also exact implementations of cibaadaat. From prayers, fasting, to giving charities major Muslim schools have slightly varying degrees of differences. Even the companions of the beloved prophet disagreed on the details of some parts of the Shariica, saaxiib. So for you to say that Muslim scholars have to agree before I submit myself to the rulings of Shariica just does not sound right. You are either grossly mistaken about what choices you could have in the realm of your faith, or just deliberately are throwing at us approximated views. The notion that Islamic Shariica is impractical, or in your case nearly impractical, is just sheer intellectual dishonest and is far from the truth. If you’re an observing Muslim you do indeed practice it every day. You pray. You observe it every year. You fast. If one means to attack the Islamic xuduud when asserting such absurdity then that too does not hold water as xuduud had been fully practiced since the dawn of the Islamic government until it collapsed.

 

I am not picking on you but I am trying to drive a very important point: once one accepts Islamic faith, and by that i mean one understood what it entails, then one’s lifestyle is dictated by the principles of the said faith. One can’t have both ways. Let that be clear.