Afghan on trial for Christianity

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by codetalker:

However,

do not

miss the gravity with which the Noble Qur'an deals with evil act of

zina'

itself. In the translation of the

ayah

, Allah SWT says:

 

“(And the servants of the Beneficent) are those who do not invoke another god with Allah, and who do not…commit

fornication/adultery

, for whoever does that shall receive the penalty; for him shall

the torment be doubled on the day of resurrection,

and therein he shall abide forever, disgraced, save him who repents and believes and does good works; those, Allah shall change their misdeeds into good works. And Allah is Forgiving, Compassionate.†(Al-Furqan: 68-70)

 

So far so good and I'm still right. No where did Allah enjoin death for adultery in the Quran.

 

 

“Adultery in Islam is one of the most heinous and deadliest of sins. Its enormity can be gauged from the fact that it has often been conjoined in the Qur’an with the gravest of all sins:

shirk

or associating partners with Allah."

 

Still no stoning to death for adultery.

 

 

While you're here concerning yourself with the "death by stoning" punishment on Earth, you seem to miss

the eternal punishment

for

zina'

in the Hereafter (when it REALLY matters).

 

One, because I live on earth and people are losing or in threat of losing their for this unjust punishment that Allah himself disagrees with. Second, stop introducing ad hoc arguements into the discussion. The after world is completely inconsequetial to this discussion. I know you're grasping for any straw man you can lay your hand on but this is pathetic.

 

 

I ask you: What earthly punishment could surmount to an eternal double punishment in the Hereafter? None! None! None!

I don't know. But answer me this: what's the punishment for editing the Quran like as in the case with the punishment of adultery. Allah said 100 lashes, muslims replaced it with death by stoning.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by The Flipmode:

Anyone who doesn't

accept what Allah has revealed whether it was meant for 6th Century or the 21st century

, is Not a muslim.It is either you are a muslim or a non-muslim.Fullstop

 

 

So, Flipmode, would kill your female family members (mother, aunt, sisters etc) if caught commiting adultery since that is what Allah said (according to you)? No pus*yfooting around, shoot straight from the hip. Yes or no.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Ahura:

That sounds absolute. Are you absolutely sure?

 

Yes and here is my reasoning. Lets say there is traffic intersection which sees an average of 2 accidents per month. Then one month the accident rate spikes to 10 per month. To be followed by doubling of accident rate, now its 20 per month. What reasonable conclusion can you draw from such scenario? Wouldn't you think to yourself that something is wrong with this traffic intersection?

 

Same with Sharia Law. If only handfull of countries 'malpractice' it, then we can dismiss them as anamolies. If 6 or so, again we can at least tolerate them. But if EVERY place Sharia law is practiced we deem as less than ideal or downright impalatable than we have strong evidence to believe the problem is with Sharia law. There is only one logical/reasonable conclusion and that is: what you see is what you get or Sharia law as practiced IS Sharia Law.

 

 

You cannot make comparisons if you don't have the necessary information.

 

It all depends on what you're comparing.

 

 

LoL. The punishment for proven

adultery

(

a married person sleeping with someone other than their wife/husband

) is death. The

100 lashes

is punishment for proven

fornication

(an unmarried person engaging in pre-marital sex), NOT adultery. *Duh*

Where? Or are you re-writting what Allah enjoined? Are you saying you know better than Allah?

 

There is no distinction between adultery and fornication in the Quran. Same punishment for both is enjoined in the Quran. Again, produce the verse.

 

 

Here is what Allah said about adultery:

 

024.002

YUSUFALI: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

PICKTHAL: The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.

SHAKIR: (As for) the fornicatress and the fornicator, flog each of them, (giving) a hundred stripes, and let not pity for them detain you in the matter of obedience to Allah, if you believe in Allah and the last day, and let a party of believers witness their chastisement.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Viking:

Socod_badne,

So all 1.2 billion around the globe should find a way to move to the four countries that [claim to] practise Sharia Law or else they are against Sharia Law itself? Is such your reasonning? :eek:

 

Why move? What's stopping Somalis from establishing Sharia law RIGHT NOW? In fact somalis found the will and moral rectitude to replace anti-sharia law government with a mix of anarchy and semi-autonemous regions where Sharia doesn't establish the order of the day. Go figure!

 

 

Do you think the laws in the Qur'an are only to be applied in homes and not in governments?

[/qb]

 

Religion is private matter and I answered this question eons ago. It belongs in the home unless widely agreed on. I'm against imposing one man's believes on another.

 

 

Allah has forbidden the consuption and sale and of alcohol and IF the society (environment) pressures the govt to allow the establishment of a brewery and permission to sell it in shops then the people will be following their own whims/desires while ignoring Islamic Law. Don't you agree?

 

 

Muslims disobey Allah and go against his injections in the Quran all the time. For example, calling for the more macabre, bloody punishment for adultery (lapidation) instead of 100 lashes. Isn't that following their own desires too? Got a bit of a conundrum there, don't you think? I'll leave you to figure it out.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Khayr:

MashaAllah,

Despite all the efforts that the world's leading stooges have put into 'liberalizing' Afghanistanistaan, this still occurs-ALHAMDULILLAH. The majority of afghanis still have respect for the Shariah and unlike some on here, wouldn't DARE to question its authority.

 

 

So, Kheyr, would you kill your female family members (mother, aunt, sisters, wife etc) if caught commiting adultery since that is what Allah said (according to you)? No pus*yfooting around, shoot straight from the hip. Yes or no.

 

 

If you leave ISLAM and become a Christian or anything else, you become an Apostate and there is no ambiguity about it.

 

Except no where in the Quran does Allah permit you or anyone to declare who's apostate and who's not. Further, once again, Allah doesn't proscribe death for apostates. Not in the Quran. Islam says when the Quran and Hadihs disagree, Quran always wins.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by Jimcaale:

Now that SB mentioned adultery, the court would have to bring four witnesses who saw the act with their naked eyes.

 

 

So, Jimcaale, would kill your female family members (mother, aunt, sisters etc) if caught commiting adultery since that is what Allah said (according to you)? No pus*yfooting around, shoot straight from the hip. Yes or no.

[Jacpher]

You would rather bring our loved ones to the discussion than refute the main points intelligibly. Such a second grade mindset with no degree of intellectual capacity whatsoever. You’ve proven my suspicion that your mouth is prone to utter nonsense.

[Ibtisam]

SB; you have too much time on your hands dear, give it a rest. if i answer your last questions, would you put a lid on it?

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by Khayr:

Ahura,

Shariah gets its source from Quran and Sunnah which are both Diven Sources. Hence, making Shariah = DIVINE LAW. Why else did the Rasul (salallahu caliyhe) spend 23yrs delineating the Shariah to us and then the Ulama have elucidated on the Rasul (salallahu caliyhe) and his sahaba's application of the Shariah.

Khayr, the Sunnah is a Divine source? Since when? At it's most basic level Hadeeth is hearsay. It's an important source for Islamic law, but it isn't divine.

 

Shariah Law is based on the Qur'an and Sunnah, yes. However, it also incorporates the rulings and consensus of the Ulama. What this means is that some of the laws within Shariah are divine (i.e. those revealed in the Qur'an) and some are not.

 

I don't mean to be pedantic, but clarity is important in these matters.

 

 

Jimcaale,

 

You are spot on. Allah is merciful and Islam is a guiding light. It does not place burdens on people that cannot be carried out. Islamic Law places strict conditions on the judicial process, conditions that must be ratified for a satisfactory verdict, so as to prevent injustices and protect innocents.

 

What Socod Badne fails to realise is that Shariah Law knows no national or cultural boundaries. Muslims are one nation and Shariah Law has to be implemented across the Muslim World, not in pockets here and there. Without a khalifah and a central authority, each Islamic nation can take what they want from Shariah law and leave what they don't to suit themselves and their cultural practices. I think this, more than anything else, is the real cause of the many injustices we see committed under Shariah Law in Muslim countries.

 

It's a rather sad state of affairs.

[Resistance]

I think you guys need to difine the discussion issues here. theres is a bit of misunderstanding amongst few of you and some of u guys are just plain ignorant.

 

the debate here should be: is Afghanistan (and for tat matter any other so-called islamic country) in a fit state to apply the Sharia law in its courts. personally i would say no, is an occupied nation and if its authorities were to apply Sharia law then its ruling should be to dismiss the foreign troops ... so applyin the law on one indivial defeats the purpose of Sharia law and in this particular case it damamges Sharia law ... cause we all know the western media love such cases and use it to dismiss sharia Law as outdated and very harsh law.

 

 

Also while i am not certain about your level of deen knowledge just carefull what you say about Sharia law, one needs years and years of study just to get a basic understanding of Sharia jurisdriction .. but we all Muslims and usng our common sense one know waht the spirit of sharia law is .. which is humane and fair to all.

[Valenteenah.]

Originally posted by HornAfrique:

quote: SB is indeed Muslim

I know you mean to appease good Ducaqabe, but that statement makes a

mockery

of all practicing good Muslims.

For some reason, I missed this before. Lord help us. *Shakes her head*

[Viking]

Ahura,

Is it fairer to say that he's gone astray since he ignores what the Prophet said in his last sermon at the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat...

 

O People, no Prophet or Messenger will comeafter me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I am leaving you with the Book of God (the QUR'AN) and my SUNNAH (the life style and the behavioral mode of the Prophet), if you follow them YOU WILL NEVER GO ASTRAY.

 

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness O God, that I have conveyed your message to your people.

[Socod_badne]

Ducaqabe,

 

You smarmy you! Why do you never cease to disappointment heh? Always whipping up plenty of dust and hoopla over extraneous issues, obfuscating, stalling, evading but never actually addressing point-blank questions put to you. I didn't insinuate anything about your family. It was only hypothetical case designed to see if you actually will do what you say you believe. I contend its all posturing and no substance. So I ask you again: hypothetically speaking if your own immediate family members (mother, siblings etc) were 'proven' beyond shadow of a doubt to have commited adultery would you stone them to death as Sharia Law demands?

 

 

Ibtisaam,

 

Actually I don't have plenty of time. I got 25 page review paper on Gene Therapy due tomorrow and I haven't even got started yet. I just manage my time more efficiently.

 

 

Ahura,

 

BOOOOOOOOO! Where is the Quranic verse that proscribes different punishments for fornication and adultery? If you can't then will you admit that Allah's strict instructions have been changed? Don't disappoint me Ahura.

 

 

Viking,

 

Stop pus*yfooting, you haven't substantively addressed any of what I've said.

 

BTW, nice attack but up the wrong hill! I don't reject what prophet (Scw) said or did.

[RendezVous]

Originally posted by Socod_badne:

quote:Originally posted by The Flipmode:

Anyone who doesn't

accept what Allah has revealed whether it was meant for 6th Century or the 21st century

, is Not a muslim.It is either you are a muslim or a non-muslim.Fullstop

 

 

So, Flipmode, would kill your female family members (mother, aunt, sisters etc) if caught commiting adultery since that is what Allah said (according to you)? No pus*yfooting around, shoot straight from the hip. Yes or no.

My Family members are not like yours..Yours can but mine can't..is that a simple answer

 

Anyway you wrote a whole page of the thread..Quoting everyone but let me tell you the answer to the above quote...

 

" Whom God guideth he is the rightly-guided. Whom he sendeth stray, thou wilt not find a patron to set him right (xviii. 16).

 

So if you wanna go astray..Please do your worst...

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by The Rendezvous:

My

Family members are not like yours..Yours can but mine can't..is that a simple answer

 

No, that is not even an answer let alone a simple one. You just confirmed my suspicion that you and most other Sharia proponents are all talk but no action. You have no problem asking or supporting adulterers to be stoned to death but not your own family. Which clearly proves you pick and choose.

 

I ask again but this time answer the question yes or no; leave out my family because I don'tsupport lapidation for any offense. Such question doesn't apply to me but it does to you since you're supporter of lapidation, I ask again:

 

 

So, Flipmode, would kill your female family members (mother, aunt, sisters etc) if caught commiting adultery since that is what Allah said (according to you)? No pus*yfooting around, shoot straight from the hip. Yes or no.