Afghan on trial for Christianity

[Ibtisam]

exposed!!

The trial judge holds the bible he says belonged to the accused

An Afghan man is being tried in a court in the capital, Kabul, for converting from Islam to Christianity.

Abdul Rahman is charged with rejecting Islam and could face the death sentence under Sharia law unless he recants.

 

He converted 16 years ago as an aid worker helping refugees in Pakistan. His estranged family denounced him in a custody dispute over his two children.

 

It is thought to be Afghanistan's first such trial, reflecting tensions between conservative clerics and reformists.

Afghanistan

 

 

Conservatives still dominate the Afghan judiciary four years after the Taleban were overthrown.

 

The BBC's Mike Donkin in Kabul says reformists, like the government under President Hamid Karzai, want a more liberal, secular legal system but under the present constitution it is hard for them to intervene.

 

'Tolerance'

 

Afghanistan's post-Taleban constitution is based on Sharia law, and prosecutors in the case says this means Abdul Rahman, whose trial began last Thursday, should be put to death.

 

We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him

 

Trial judge Ansarullah Mawlazezadah

 

When he was arrested last month he was found to be carrying a bible and charged with rejecting Islam which is punishable by death in Afghanistan.

 

Trial judge Ansarullah Mawlazezadah told the BBC that Mr Rahman, 41, would be asked to reconsider his conversion, which he made while working for a Christian aid group in Pakistan.

 

"We will invite him again because the religion of Islam is one of tolerance. We will ask him if he has changed his mind. If so we will forgive him," the judge told the BBC on Monday.

 

But if he refused to reconvert, then his mental state would be considered first before he was dealt with under Sharia law, the judge added.

 

He said he expected the case to take about two months to be heard.

 

Precedent

 

The Afghan Human Rights Commission has called for a better balance in the judiciary, with fewer judges advocating Sharia law and more judges with a wider legal background.

 

Several journalists have been prosecuted under blasphemy laws in post-Taleban Afghanistan.

 

The editor of a women's rights magazine was convicted of insulting Islam and sentenced to death last year - but was later released after an apology and heavy international pressure.

 

Mr Karzai's office says the president will not intervene in the case.

 

Observers say executing a converted Christian would be a significant precedent as a conservative interpretation of Sharia law in Afghanistan.

 

But it would also outrage Western nations which put Mr Karzai in power and are pouring billions of dollars into supporting the country.

 

what right do muslim have demanding Tolerance?

[Castro]

Observers say executing a converted Christian would be a significant precedent as a conservative interpretation of Sharia law in Afghanistan. But it would also outrage Western nations which put Mr Karzai in power and are pouring billions of dollars into supporting the country.

A phone conversation between "Western powers" (WP) and Karzai after the man is put to death:

 

WP: "How could you let this happen Kazzie? What with all the money we gave you?"

 

Karzai: "I'm sorry Sir. I couldn't intervene. The people would have my head on a plate."

 

WP: "But we also provide you protection Kazzie. Why do you think we do that? That we really care about your dumbass?"

 

Karzai: "I know Sir. I'm sorry. It won't happen again."

 

WP: "You're really getting on our last nerve Kazzie. You're proving to be even more worthless than people accuse you of. Frankly, we're really dissapointed. We might have to change our strategy."

 

Karzai: "I'm really, really, really sorry Sir. Please forgive me. I'll be good. I promise. Please."

 

WP: "Oh shutup, you sound like a little biaj right now. Hush!"

 

Karzai: "Ok Sir. I'm sorry. Can you send me more Toblerone, Sir. We running really low on stock and you know how much I like that chocolate."

 

WP: "Stubidh, fcuking piece of shit, turban head. And don't forget to submit your timesheet on Friday." [hangs up]

 

Karzai: "Hello? Are you there Sir? Hello?"

 

what right do muslim have demanding Tolerance?

I suppose this is your question, Ibtisam, and not part of the article. Do you think Muslims shouldn't ask for tolerance when they put to death a murtad (a revert)?

 

That man couldn't be too bright to begin with. To me, leaving Islam for Christianity is akin to graduating college only to start 5th grade. Let him be. Whatever his punishment, he will receive it from his creator.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by ibtisam:

what right do muslim have demanding Tolerance?

Every right! Two wrongs don't make a right and the morality of the enlightened and civilised world shouldn't rest on the shoulders of people who still ride to battles on top of horses (I'm not joking here. I watched an afghan documentary a while a go and there was segment where bevy of afghans riding horses were shown madly rushing enemy lines. It was a scene out of this world).

 

I noted from the article that the current afghan penal code is derived from Sharia or based on it entirely. No surprise there must say. The Sharia Law can only be practiced if accompanied by threats of violence and fear. And this man who is to be excuted hasn't done anything but openly defy stultifying and oppressive system. It's Sharia Law that is trying and excuting this man, not Islam. Why should what ANYONE believes matter to authorities in palaces and government buildings anyways? It doesn't! They're protecting their legitimacy by sacrificing an innocent man's life.

 

 

Incidents like this highlight why most muslims and nonmuslims reject Sharia Law completely.

[makalajabti]

I told you there is something wrong with the Sharia.

We see dramas like this one everyday in the Muslim World

[FatB]

Why is that our ummah is so week minded that they are unable to take the medicine for their illness.

I told you there is something wrong with the Sharia.

How can we be Muslims and not uphold the shari'a??? Do the deaths of millions of Muslims before our time that died defending this beautiful gift from Allah mean nothing to us? has our aqiin detiriated to such lows that carrying the truth as become a burden?

 

 

And prosecutors in the case says this means Abdul Rahman, whose trial began last Thursday, should be put to death.

The issue of weather that his death is just is not in question here, for we all now that abandoning the light carries the punishment of death. But would it not serve better that the man should be let lived? for as long as he does not desecrate or try to curb others form the light, he can live as among the ummah in peace. And let Allah question him of this abandonment.

[bilan]

it is really amazing that some muslims are arguing the right to excute murtad,do not all developed western nations reserve the right to execute their citizens who turn against them,how many people are executed during WWII for treason. i do not know the details of this particular trial,but instead of arguing against sharia,it will be better if you ask the reason behind it.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by bilan:

it is really amazing that some muslims are arguing the right to excute murtad,

 

No arguement here. Do you agree apostates/converters should be killed? Yes or no will do.

 

 

do not all developed western nations reserve the right to execute their citizens who turn against them,how many people are executed during WWII for treason

Treason is a political crime, murtad is an act of conscience. Remember there is no compulsion in religion! You can't force people; when you do those believers are only believers out of fear.

[Viking]

We discussed this issue last year without any proper closure Is Killing An Apostate in the Islamic Law?

[Castro]

^ That was an infinitely better topic. Whatever happened to Brother Warsameh? Was he eventually banned or killed?

[codetalker]

Nothing wrong with Sharia Law. Something wrong with how its used by "some" folks, sometimes.

 

For example, here's my question: Can Sharia Law be applied in a country that's under non-Muslim occupation (i.e. Afghanistan)?

 

Originally posted by Castro:

A phone conversation between "Western powers" (WP) and Karzai after the man is put to death:

 

WP:

"How could you let this happen

Kazzie?

What with all the money we gave you?"

 

LOOOOOOL @ Kazzie! I was rollin' yo. You remember Bandar Bush from "Fahrenheit 9/11"? Kazzie kulahaa.

[Castro]

LOL. Few people I have contempt for like I do for Karzai of Afghanistan and Talabani of Iraq (and of course our own warlords). All should be killed on sight. We're wasting our breath and energy on simpletons who choose Christianity over Islam. The real apostates are those sellouts.

[Ibtisam]

I suppose this is your question, Ibtisam, and not part of the article. Do you think Muslims shouldn't ask for tolerance when they put to death a murtad (a revert)?

i don't know i guess it makes things a little bit more difficulty. i advocate for human rights and especially tolerance for Muslims and their faith. i was not even aware of this man and his trial till i went to a meeting yesterday and they threw that question at me, why should we tolerate Muslims who kill people simply for changing their mind. Personally such a public display is not beneficial to Muslims who live in none Muslim countries, it makes us seem like confused, two faced people, who want to be treated well in regards to the right to excise their religion and practice it but they cannot give the same freedom to others in their own countries. if they were going to execute the man, then they should employ the same methods as other "shirah" countries where people go missing, not advertise it on BBC. IF the country is govern by shirah then sure, he should have been executed as they have the right and duty to implement it fully, but I’m not sure if there is a fully shirah system in Afghanistan.

lets just say i'm bit confused right now on this issue :confused:

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by codetalker:

Nothing wrong with Sharia Law. Something wrong with how its used by "some" folks, sometimes.

Nothing wrong with Sharia law? Says the man who made the volitional decision to live in a non-Sharia country. FYI, to the man who will be killed, there's plenty wrong with Sharia law. But we won't hear from him. That is because he's to be silenced soon.

 

 

Ibtisaam,

 

There is no confusion over this issue. In fact it is black and white and making a decision is straigh forward affair for those with clear conscience. A man is to be excuted for disbelieve not for any crime he commited or any harm he brought to society. It's clear violation of his human rights and affront to Allah who placed the life of man at the pinnacle of his creation. How can faith be strengthened if you kill the very same people you want to join in? Killing him or making disbelieve a crime in Sharia Law run state nullifies the faith of all its inhabitants. As people will be believers only because of fear of death or other punishments.

 

The great news is that no one wants to live under sharia law. Give an afghan or any muslim a choice between freedom, peace, democracy, justice, human rights and Sharia law, the former will be opted for most of the times without hesitation.

[codetalker]

^

 

Nacnac-badane. Or so the Legend goes.

 

If you read the entire thing, I asked a question. I don't think Sharia Law can be applied, legally, in a country under non-Muslim occupation. I might be wrong, however.

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by codetalker:

^

Nacnac-badane.

Or so the Legend goes.

 

Nope, just penchant for the truth.

 

 

If you read the entire thing, I asked a question.

this is what you said: Nothing wrong with Sharia Law. Something wrong with how its used by "some" folks, sometimes.

 

That sounds unreserved endorsement of Sharia law by YOU. If nothing is wrong with Sharia law, why don't YOU live in Sharia law run country. There are plenty of them to choose from.

 

Be a man and own up! Stop squirming.

 

 

I don't think Sharia Law can be applied,

legally

, in a country under non-Muslim occupation.

 

 

What the hell is that suppose to mean? Sharia Law IS the law in Afghanistan. Under aegis of Sharia Law, the Afghan government will be put to death a man for leaving Islam. And you dwell on legality!

 

Again, a leisure at your call and beck all thanks to living in a non-Sharia law country. Your life is not on the line, your welfare is not at risk.