Report claims Siyaad Barre was not Muslim?

[Old_Observer]

1 hour ago, Holac said:

I am not surprised at all. He was a violently insane person. Not that Christians are like that, but "wax walba ka filo" kind of guy. 

In his last months in power, he accepted and declared that Somalia has no claim or wish to bring NFD and Djibouti to greater Somalia, but never did for Kilil. It was not to keep his mother's wish, but the Ethiopians took it out of the agenda and agreement.

The person who took out this from the agreement is Col. Berhane Bayuh still alive in Italian embassy in Addis Ababa his home since 1991. He felt would be humiliating to Siad Barre to go on radio and declare that the kilil is Ethiopian, and also the facts on the ground do not need this.

He was more hating SSDF, more than SNM, hard to believe, but that is what is documented.

 

But if he had outlasted Mengistu, which was about 6 months difference, a few things would have changed. USC of Aidiid would have been closest to Ethiopia, rather than SNM or SSDF.

[Old_Observer]

Oodweyne,

Isn't it amazing how fake news and fake information can be "truth"

Most Somalis think Ethiopia preferred SNM, which is completely untrue from the beginning to the end.

Remember that an Ethiopian general wanted to do away with the unity by force, wanted to march to Mogadishu. Ethiopia did not want the union to happen, but Somalilanders outplayed outsmarted Ethiopia.

The SNM wanted peace with Ethiopia and settle border even if it looks favouring Ethiopia, but the SNM worked hard to limit Ethiopia interference and connections for all Somalis. Ethiopian government knew this and were always suspicious of SNM as they are suspicious of Somaliland to this date.

But if you ask any Somali simpleton will tell you Ethiopia made SNM or SNM is a Somali Ethiopian....etc.

That I think is one of Siad Barre legacy affecting Somalia to this date. The same accusation is now used on Puntland and Bay area regions. Puntland has taken the place of Somaliland for the Ethiopians.

[gooni]

Holac

Taariikhda waa waajib inaad barataa si aadan u noqon qof aan aqoon wuxuu ka hadlayo

Dadka dega Nfd iyo somali-galbeed aan kuusoo koobo

M.siyaad wuxuu ka aaminsanaa  muwaadinka koowaad dhanka wax barashada dibada, tan gudaha, maamulka sare safaaradaha saraakiisha iwm.

Kan qoryoolay ku dhadhay iyo kan jigjiga ku dhashay waxaa mudnaa kan jigjiga, garan waa ma'ahayn 

Taasna wuxuu u samayn jiray si ay u kasbadaan khibrad iyo aqoon ay ku difaacdaan dhulkooda iyo dadkooda.

Intaa iyo ka badan uma samayn qabiil iyo xigto wuxuu u sameeyay somaalinimo  taariikh fogna ma'ahayn nin aragti dheer buu ahaa aragtidayda

Kow mucjisadii la arkay waxay ahayd dadkii naf iyo maalba loo huray oo jabhadihii qaran dumiska ahaa ka bar-bar dagaalamaya!.

Markii la waydiiyay maxaad u dagaalamaysaan oo idinka maqan ama idinku kalifayna, ku jawaabay dadkaa dagaalamaya yaan meel dhexe kasoo raacnay.

Nfd iyo som/galbeed labduba waa dad tiro iyo tayo leh balse waxaa la yiri

Abeesada iyo libaaxu dadka way dhamayn lahaayeen haddaan hurdo iyo damanaan lagu saladin.

Odweyne

Taariikhdaan waa been abuur haku daalin walaal.

Mar hadday snm dastuurka ku qoratay inay gaar u leeyihiin sadex magaalo aqoonsina u doonayaan ayagaa marti ku ah solmaaliya.

Waa runtaa saaxiib, dadku waa muslim balse gaal iyo jacaylkiis waa naanays fog, si sahalana kuma dhaqmi karto.

[Duufaan]

TThis report from a particular  church, is not something to take serious. 

[galbeedi]

It is totally fake.

Siyaad Barre was secular just like his contemporaries. Saddam, Qadafi, Assad, Mubaarak and all those leaders were  secular and communist, but never became Christian. Saddam became more religious for the later years.

Siyaad Barre was not more dictator than others. In late seventies he built the largest Mosque in Somalia ( Massajidka Isbahaysiga) and in early eighties introduced calling of the five prayers (Aadaanka Salaada) from Radio Mogadishu.

Also in those years, tens of thousands of Somalis who were Muslims never prayed. yet the were genuine Muslims with deep tradition.

It is a long story, but we know how the SNM started the so called " Shahada on the flag" or how the so called Mujaahidiin thing started. It  was a Saudi project to fight Russian occupation in Afghanistan and the among the early founders of SNM there were men who were well connected to the Saudis.

Eventually, the Saudis convinced Siyaad Barre to get rid of the communist. IT was a long struggle between Cali Samatar a real communist and Saleebaan Dafle, an intelligence officer connected with the SAudis, and the later won the battle.

Anyway, in the Islamic tradition, unless the person proclaim openly his apstacy and leaving of Islam, it is illegal to call him Kafir. 

Leave the man in his grave. Allah knows what is in his heart and he will answer.

Shaqo kale yeesha.

OO,

 SSDF  was aa national movement that wanted to replace Siyaad Baree, but SNM was regional. THe SSDF fought from Goryo Awl five miles from Borama to Mudug Dollow and Bay. THe SNM were intended to dismember the country although some were genuine rebels who wanted to replace Siyaad Barre. ONe was national while the other one was regional.

 Ethiopia knew early that SNM was separatist movement. YOu were probably low level officer or young then, but even the international media debated how Russia wanted to setup a pro Ethiopian regime in the north and South Sudan. I myself and everyone else knew that SNM was about separation. The SOmali leaders knew and everyone knew it. Since the dismemberment was more serious than regime change Ethiopia prefered SNM . When C/laahi Yusuf was arrested the SSDF was getting the best weapons from Libya, and Yemen.

So, please stop telling our own history. we know because we were their.

 

[Duufaan]

From OODWEYNE

"As for Gen. Barre it's in the historical archive of the US's government's document. And he actually told this Senator Grassley of Iowa that he is a "secret Christian" of the Catholic line of Christianity. And he was always a "believer" of his lord Jesus, from all the way from the Italian's fascist era."

 

Is not same wonderful and  historic archive that wrote about Cigaal. same conclusion always. this time, the wonderfull senator must be telling the true and this has to do the  powerful SNM struggle. If you read the letters from that archive, you know the reason Siyad Bare regime collapsed suddenly in 1990, has nothing to do SNM POWER.

[Old_Observer]

galbeedi,

You are starting from the wrong premise that Ethiopia wanted Somalia splinter or Somaliland to separate. That is completely wrong. All policy and steps the Derg Mengistu regime followed was from king Haileslassie days which has been made open after 2000.

Since Mengistu and late Barre were meeting all the time directly and through intermediaries the arrest of late A. Yusuf could have been a result of one of these meetings, since the reason "Ethiopian flag in Somalia territory" incident is not satisfactory for his arrest.

Aidiid took everybody's place and became no.1 favourite for Derg, not SNM. And of course when regime changed in Ethiopia soon after SSDF became favoured by the new government. Listen to interview Gen. Morgan did in 2006 in Mogadishu after ICU was expelled and you will see why he called the new government in Ethiopia to help in the Bay area. He had contacted SSDF folks as well when his side was in trouble.

What happened was SNM were aware that Ethiopia is only interested in weakening Somalia regime, but not separation. Gaddafi was like a child. If you think he would be SSDF prefering what did he do in 2006?

Didn't Gadafi sponsor ICU, SC. Ithad...collection in Asmara?

 

Barre had lost his leverage by Tigray becoming more powerful than Eritreans.

But Ethiopia to this day does not have the intention or plan to push Somalia to disentegrate, its not in Ethiopia's interest and also not right thing to do. But Ethiopia also does not want bloodshed to keep Somaliland, that is for sure.

 

Its not that you may or maynot have been there, its just I think always starting from one premise, very biased. Since your first intension is the splinter of Ethiopia, you always think Ethiopians also think that way. Maybe some Ethiopians, but never a policy or plan.

 

[cadnaan1]

2 hours ago, Old_Observer said:

 

But Ethiopia to this day does not have the intention or plan to push Somalia to disentegrate, its not in Ethiopia's interest and also not right thing to do. But Ethiopia also does not want bloodshed to keep Somaliland, that is for sure.

 

 

 

That is not true,,the former president of Kenya Daniel arap MOI said after he left the office that Kenya and Ethiopia are in agreement not to allow Somalia to become stable again and keep it in this mess.

[maakhiri1]

SNM has always been about separation and Ethiopia clearly knew this.

 

 

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

Eebbe ha u raxmado marxuum Maxamed Siyaad Barre, hana u dambi dhaafo - aamiin.

Dadweyne wada jiran oo bukaan ah ayuu isku haaye as it is being proven by in the last 27 and so years. Alloow kuu naxariiso.

And this is coming from me, whose family Siyaad Barre have affected more than any other SOLer on here.

[Old_Observer]

On 3/22/2018 at 2:57 AM, cadnaan1 said:

That is not true,,the former president of Kenya Daniel arap MOI said after he left the office that Kenya and Ethiopia are in agreement not to allow Somalia to become stable again and keep it in this mess.

You know that Ethiopia has made a complete change of direction after war with Eritrea. Kenya is wealthier than Ethiopia, but junior in its alliance with Ethiopia.

Somalia has also made big change. There is more Somalis now who are convinced that the greater Somalia project is untimely and no economic, cultural, military to support this project.

What MOI is talking about is greater somalia project.

The situation has dramatically changed everywhere, but some of us are stuck in the old ways of thinking.

[Old_Observer]

On 3/22/2018 at 3:24 AM, maakhiri1 said:

SNM has always been about separation and Ethiopia clearly knew this.

 

 

That is very true, but the other direction also happens to be true:

SNM always knew that Ethiopia would not prefer the Somaliland separation which can have domino effect first to Somalia and then to Ethiopia and Djibouti.

What is changed now is that Ethiopia has this conviction and policy that goes:

What is the point of staying together by force, simply to be together poor and backward. Its more expensive to keep things by force. Its more economical and humaine and longer lasting to manage separation and its consequences.

Ethiopia applied this to herself, Sudan applied this to herself and if Somalis applied this bythemselves (that is the key by themselves) it will be better to manage. Ethiopia encouraging it will never bring peace or will not last long. That is the key.

Mengistu supported South Sudan, Eritrea supported south Sudan, but not Ethiopia. Ethiopia supported whatever the Sudanese chose to do. The northern told the Ethiopians that Sudan have had enough with this problem, its source of misery for everybody, its source for foreign interference..etc.

 

[Old_Observer]

On 3/22/2018 at 7:15 AM, Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar said:

Eebbe ha u raxmado marxuum Maxamed Siyaad Barre, hana u dambi dhaafo - aamiin.

That is noble and more good for you than it is to him.

What I think happened is he might have spoken like most Africans at a time of difficulty and confusing situation.

[maakhiri1]

OO,  why are you comparing apple with orange?  SOMALI state with Ethiopia? It is NOT  easy to manage by separating a family of 12 million.

Ethiopia on the other hand, is dead man walking, will disintegrate.

[Old_Observer]

14 minutes ago, maakhiri1 said:

OO,  why are you comparing apple with orange?  SOMALI state with Ethiopia? It is NOT  easy to manage by separating a family of 12 million.

Ethiopia on the other hand, is dead man walking, will disintegrate.

I am not comparing them in terms of the societies. I am only comparing the states whether provinces or countries.

Having the same language, ancestry, faith, general culture did not bring peace and unity. It can only help in foundation, but not help to plan future.

What ever the solution is to the Somaliland case, has to be thought, agreed, implemented by Somali people themselves. Any push or pull from outside will be very detructive for anyone. The only push or pull can only be on the Somali people doing it as peacefully as possible.

Never forget 100 years is about 4-5 generations. Its already more than one generation that has grown in this limbo situation.

Reember also that Eritrea and Ethiopia for the most part are same people at least the northern Ethiopia.