Liberated Women..Are you liberated????

[Foxy]

Then, don't end up like them. How? Its quite simple: either don't get married or marry outside the race.

I think there's waay too many Somali chicks around anyway, so you don't be missed dear. ....~~~by the looks of it mate U have some issues about women, especially somali women that might have chosen to settle with outside their own kind<<<<< if venting is needed anywhere, it might as well start with U right here and now mate....the girl mentioned single somali women that were left with number of children to raise by herself, what on earth brought the ones that ended up with non somalis in to the topic, mise meel bukta ayaa isog malaa.....No offence but meel baad ka soo booday

 

cheers

 

PS on the topic, women are not fully liberated yet, but we are on our way, pay wise we are almost there, hell Now adays U see some of ur male peers that are paid less Than U, great feeling, okey I was kiddin...But the funniest thing is when U read about male escorts ads left, right and centre! what is the world comin to!...but then again.......its good to have choices wide open ......20 yrs ago that was un heard of term...

[Katrina]

Legend, you couldn't have said it better! Unfortunately, Muslims (somalis included) tend to point fingers at western culture and ignore the problems in our culture. Why do we do that? Maybe because it makes us feel better/superiour etc. Who cares if they share wives, don't have equal wages to men or are sexually active! They are not MUSLIMS! We need to focus on our ummaah and our youth. I hold myself and all Muslims to a higher standard so lets stop comparing how much worse they are to us. Allah knows how far we've strayed from the right path in all regards...imaan, compassion, empathy and kindness towards each other and non-believers. I see a lot of Somalis who measure they're success on how far they've surpassed other somalis. Is that the Islamic way?

[Xoogsade]

Ahura, someone has to point out the downside to freedom misused and abused. Makalajabti willfully ignored the negatives and went her way to justify even what logical person be them a muslim or nonmuslim finds to be self degradation. We know organizations that exist to dissuade women from prostitution and selling their bodies for an income or for both pleasure and money although I don't see where the pleasure comes from. We know organizations lead by western women who are against the sex-toy image for women prevalent in their culture. There is abuse, bias, bigotry and all kinds of threats against women in the west. Sadly but truthfully, women are as good as they look only. The main focus is on their body regardless of whatever personal successes she has achieved in life.

 

For somali women, It is a question of what they want to accept from a culture that has both good and bad in it. Often times I see girls glorifying one aspect of a culture which has miserably failed its own women at large. In no way do I believe Muslims are better just because they are muslims, however, if it is emancipation and being free from the bondage of mankind, muslim women already have the means to extricate themselves from unpleasant situations. They do not need the approval of a man, the acceptance of society or people telling them they look good and are successful for them to feel worthy of something.

 

From a man's perpective, be he a muslim or a nonmuslim, a b-itchy woman is no worth a dime no matter how successful she is in material wealth or knowledge. Relationships are founded on love and on each person's acceptance of their role as a man or a woman. A woman is better served to love like a woman, to respect herself as a woman and celebrate her femininity. The problem is the death of womanhood in the psyche of western women. Most of them were raised to be angry at men and base on their struggle to be revengeful. The result is them to find difficult time holding meaningful relationships. This is what happened to somali women who thought they are free to do as they please and they shouldn't seek resolution to their differences with their husbands so they can keep their homes secure from splits and from rendering kids fatherless. All somali men are not perfect, some are indeed losers, however, when the girls are telling each other before they even get married that they have the upper hand and can dictate what goes on in their homes, disregarding their husband's views, it is no wonder the divorce rate is just as high as that of western homes. Instead of using the system to their advancement, it turns out that many ended up victims of the same system that was built to help them escape abusive relationships and be self-sustaining. So Ahura, let the girls be wise and smart enough to take what is beneficial and to their advantage from other societies.

 

 

Yeniceri

 

Ahura fancies alpha xoogsade in her life, hence, the squabbles with him

 

 

Foxy

 

Did yeniceri touch a raw nerve when he mentioned a foreigner? We want somali girls to be moored to us forever. We want them for us

[Yeniceri]

^ Okay.

 

Originally posted by Foxy:

by the looks of it mate U have some issues about women, especially somali women that might have chosen to settle with outside their own kind...No offence but meel baad ka soo booday

Like OMG...I really didn't wanna confess my tragic story but since you're willing to lend me your ear...Well, it all started when I dated this Somali chic, right. Then, few days after I proposed to her, she left me for a foreigner. And so, I run around cyber Forums disgracing Somali women who marry foreigners (cause, you see, I really care for the millions of them, what they do with their lives, who they should marry, etc). Here are my qualities: I'm possessive, arrogant and selfish. But, the important thing is that I'm Somali. So why'd she leave me? Boo hoo.

 

You dig?

 

Originally posted by Castro:

quote:Originally posted by Yeniceri:

I think there's

waay

too many Somali chicks around anyway, so you don't be missed dear.

Indeed, yet there are so few Somali roosters, worth a damn, for these "chicks". :rolleyes:

The Cuban kid - SOL's answer to a question no one asked - comes to the rescue, again. How redundant. We get it buddy, you're a liberal.

 

p.s. Do you feel liberated, good Castro? This is most definitely a tit. We'll see if you go for the tat.

[bilan]

well said legend,i am sick and tired those kind of articles what are these authors trying to proof, are they trying to convince themselves that islam is superior than any other religion or they want to convince western women,if it is because of the former,then they have a bigger issue to worry than western women,and if it is because of later i think they lost their audience right there.

let's take care of our problems,we have seen tons of these articles criticizing how western women are not happy,taken advantage of,raped,and they aren't liberated,but is that our problem,let the westerners worry about their problem,why worry about other societies especially when muslim are denied their basic rights such as their right to education,marriage,divorce,and respect. if you think that muslim women do not get depressed then volunteer to any community based centers,i am sure for a while you will stop worrying about western women and their problems.

 

xoogsade you are talking like muslims follow their religion,wake up muslims follow their culture more than religion and most of these cultures consider women second class, so do not tell me muslim woman do not have to do certain things to please society.

[Khayr]

Salams,

 

 

Originally posted by bilan:

let's take care of our problems,

we have seen tons of these articles criticizing how western women are not happy,taken advantage of,raped,and they aren't liberated,but is that our problem,let the westerners worry about their problem,why worry about other societies

especially when muslim are denied their basic rights such as their right to education,marriage,divorce,and respect. if you think that muslim women do not get depressed then volunteer to any community based centers,i am sure for a while you will stop worrying about western women and their problems.

Why worry about them you say?

 

Well, because they Implicitly and as of late in some countries, EXPLICITLY are trying to CONVERT the MUSLIMS to INTEGRATE and ASSIMILATE into Western Societies. This is done through the constant bombardment of class peers telling you HOW you should think...Co-workers questioning your Religious view an issue and viewing you as being 'ANCIENT' in thinking...through the Mediums of Television shows,news reports, ads etc.....

 

Why, you can't go a DAY, an hour, a minute, without this DE-PROGRAMMING of the MUSLIM MIND

 

The Negatives of Western Ideals is often overlooked and underplayed for the Muslim b/c they are always reminded of the 'GOOD LIFE' that Westerners provide for them. For a little food on your plate and shelter, you, the Muslim get to trade in your MIND, your HISTORY, your Islamic Personality. What a great deal-right?

 

Originally posted by Legend of Zu

 

It is time that Muslims start focusing on the social ills towards the Muslim women. We are frequently reminded that western women are not really liberated but depressed...and…what about the Muslim women?

 

Why dont we reevaluate how the Muslim women are not given their Allah given rights, you dont see articles tackling their roles in Muslim society, empowerment of the Muslim women..

 

A couple of centuries ago women in western world were given the least regards let alone giving their rights to vote or hold any significant position. However, the western world with their social ills have moved towards their goals. Western women fought for their rights (whatever that might be - from getting rid off clothes to positioning themselves to hold important places in the western governments).

 

For once Muslims need to reexamine their own backyard and see what happened to the Muslim women's rights and their empowerment within the light of Islamic teaching. why can't we focus on our selves. if you ask me…pointing fingers at westerners for every social ill we have is just getting tiring and sounds ridiculous to me.

Legend,

 

The Case of Muslim women being Oppressed is been OVERKILLED. Why thats all we here whenever an ISLAMIC VIEWPOINT on a particular subject is brought up. e.g. Shariah law

 

The good in Muslim Women, interms of following their Islamic Tradition and not Western Ideals is often CRITIQUED, especially by new age, western mind fed-Muslims.

 

Just the other night, my wife went to a somali gathering and everyone's favorite Poet-TOGANE was present. Well, Togane was spewing a whole lot of Confusion about Muslim Women and he said something like 'We need more Muslim Women Presidents etc...'...needless to say everyone was clapping and yelling Amin. My wife yelled out 'IstaghfurulAllah' infront of the crowd and told him straight that it wasn't in the Islamic Tradition saxib and that what Togane was saying was nothing but HUBRIS. I wasn't there, but needless to say, it was a proud moment for me-Alhamdulillah!

 

Take Pride in your Tradition, nomads and stop being so SELF-DEFEATIST!!!

[Valenteenah.]

Legend, Kat and Bilan:

 

Ditto. I'm so sick and tired of this finger wagging as well. It's nothing but a time-wasting measure.

 

 

Yeniceri:

"Its quite simple: either don't get married or marry outside the race. I think there's waay too many Somali chicks around anyway, so you don't be missed dear."

 

Ah..if only you knew of my Spinsterhood aspirations! *Sigh* I tell you, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I would definitely remain unmarried. In the meantime, however, the mortgage requires two incomes. :mad: :mad:

 

 

Xoogsade,

 

If your point is that most women aren't liberated, whether they are Western or Eastern, then I agree with you.

 

If you're also saying that there are good and bad aspects to both cultures (in the most general meaning of the word), then I would agree as well.

 

But if you mean to make out that the only rights and freedoms that women in the West have achieved is the right to wear less clothes and swim in the gutters, then I would have to disagree.

 

There is abuse, bias, bigotry and all kinds of threats against women in the west. Sadly but truthfully, women are as good as they look only. The main focus is on their body regardless of whatever personal successes she has achieved in life.

This exists in Eastern countries as well. The only difference is that, whereby in some countries the obsession is with displaying women's bodies, in other countries it's focused on the garments that adorn them. One side go out of their way to reveal, the other side go out of their way to taint and hide. The underlining issue in both is CONTROL. Controlling their perceptions, their values, their confidence, their economic power.

 

if it is emancipation and being free from the bondage of mankind, muslim women already have the means to extricate themselves from unpleasant situations. They do not need the approval of a man, the acceptance of society or people telling them they look good and are successful for them to feel worthy of something.

This again works both ways. Muslim women may have the means to 'extricate themselves from unpleasant situations' in theory, however in practice those means fail to materialise. The one factor that makes a real difference to Western women is opportunities. If the woman is educated and has the determination to succeed, she has the potential to go far. The Muslim woman's biggest and most difficult obstacle is her gender. Regardless of how highly educated or skillful she is, the very fact that she is a woman, will close doors to her. The Muslim woman is not defined by her outlook, her achievements, her intellect or her accolades, but rather by what garments she wears or whether she's married or not. This of course doesn't mean that she would get more opportunities if she were dressed in the 'accepted way' and was happily married on top of all her other accomplishments. Now, what chance does the average Muslim woman have of extricating herself from any situation? There are no mechanisms in place to protect the Muslim woman's rights and those women that dare fight for them are victimised and villified.

 

Some women are oppressed and repressed, others are exploited and enslaved. The only truly liberated women are those rich enough never to rely on anyone. After all, the true definition of liberation is independence and self-sufficiency, is it not?

 

 

A woman is better served to love like a woman, to respect herself as a woman and celebrate her femininity. The problem is the death of womanhood in the psyche of western women. Most of them were raised to be angry at men and base on their struggle to be revengeful. The result is them to find difficult time holding meaningful relationships. This is what happened to somali women who thought they are free to do as they please and they shouldn't seek resolution to their differences with their husbands so they can keep their homes secure from splits and from rendering kids fatherless. All somali men are not perfect, some are indeed losers, however, when the girls are telling each other before they even get married that they have the upper hand and can dictate what goes on in their homes, disregarding their husband's views, it is no wonder the divorce rate is just as high as that of western homes.

Lo0oL...um...am sensing some insecurities here, X. If there's anything you would like to talk about, am here for you.

 

The 'death of womanhood', eh? Sounds very dramatic. I wouldn't know much about that since I have yet to have a relationship with a Western woman, but from what I have seen of my friends and former/current colleagues, they seem as capable of having meaningful relationships as any other woman.

 

 

Liban,

 

LoL...

[Thierry.]

Asalamu Alaikum

 

The Sisters are right there is a lot of finger pointing going around and majority of time we now the argument “women are oppressed in the westâ€

 

“women are oppressed in the west†In my view and this is only my view I say women are oppressed in the west and secular societies, however likewise Muslim women are oppressed (note I said Muslim women and not Islam) . Here is a little equation I came up with

 

Secular society: Women oppressed. How to overcome? using human instinct societal changes as well as trial and error

 

Muslim Society: Women oppressed. How to overcome? Learn and implement Islamic Shariah.

 

And for the sister that said talk about the benefits Islam brings to this issue. Here are some Audio lectures which one can listen to.

 

THE LAST FOUR LECTURES AND QUESTION AND ANSWERE BY PROMINENT SCHOLAR DR ZAKIR NAIK

 

http://www.aswatalislam.net/DisplayFilesP.aspx?TitleID=50027

 

 

Salam

[RendezVous]

The best quotes so far..

 

Before I start, let me caution BILAN against Insulting ISLAM in any way..If you have a probelm with ISLAM as a religion..you are free to relieve yourself from it.Infact we have one sura..Lakum diinikum waliya diin..She/HE went like..???Are we talking about ISLAM or liberation..

they trying to convince themselves that islam is superior than any other religion or they want to convince western women,if it is because of the former,then they have a bigger issue to worry than western women,and if it is because of later i think they lost their audience right there.

THE WORST SCENARIO

REAL LIFE SITUATION/DIVORCE AND SINGLE FATHERS/MOTHERS/WACELO

 

This is what happened to somali women who thought they are free AND LIBERATED..to do as they please and they shouldn't seek resolution to their differences with their husbands so they can keep their homes secure from splits and from rendering kids fatherless. All somali men are not perfect, some are indeed losers, however, what the girls are telling each other before they even get married that they have the upper hand and can dictate what goes on in their homes, disregarding their husband's views, it is no wonder the divorce rate is just as high as that of western homes.[/b

 

AND THEN..

 

Originally posted by Ahura:

[QB]

Legend,

Kat

and

Bilan

:

 

WISE MEN AND WOMEN

 

If your point is that most women aren't liberated, whether they are Western or Eastern, then I agree with you.

If you're also saying that there are good and bad aspects to both cultures (in the most general meaning of the word), then I would agree as well.

But if you mean to make out that the only rights and freedoms that women in the West have achieved is the right to wear less clothes and swim in the gutters, then I would have to disagree.

MODERN AND "LIBERATED MUSLIMS"

 

ibtisam: yes i am liberated

REAL REASONING

 

if it is emancipation and being free from the bondage of mankind, muslim women already have the means to extricate themselves from unpleasant situations. It was mentionedintheholy Quraan and Hadeeth.They do not need the approval of a man, the acceptance of society or people telling them they look good and are successful for them to feel worthy of something.

THIS ONE THINKS MUSLIM WOMEN HAVE NO FUTURE

 

The one factor that makes a real difference to Western women is opportunities. If the woman is educated and has the determination to succeed, she has the potential to go far. The Muslim woman's biggest and most difficult obstacle is her gender.Regardless of how highly educated or skillful she is, the very fact that she is a

woman

, will close doors to her.

 

The Muslim woman is not defined by her outlook, her achievements, her intellect or her accolades, but rather by what garments she wears or whether she's married or not. This of course doesn't mean that she would get more opportunities if she were dressed in the 'accepted way' and was happily married on top of all her other accomplishments. Now, what chance does the average Muslim woman have of extricating herself from any situation? There are no mechanisms in place to protect the Muslim woman's rights and those women that dare fight for them are victimised and villified.

 

Some women are oppressed and repressed, others are exploited and enslaved.

...The problem is the death of womanhood in the psyche of western women. Most of them were raised to be angry at men and base on their struggle to be revengeful. The result is them to find difficult time holding meaningful relationships.

Finally THE MOST BROKE LADY..I ever heard of..

 

Ah..if only you knew of my Spinsterhood aspirations! *Sigh* I tell you, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I would definitely remain unmarried.

In the meantime, however, the mortgage requires two incomes. :mad:

It has now taken The nomads Head on for sure...So some of you were already liberated..

[makalajabti]

Muslim countries (arabs or not) have the WORST RECORD OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS?.

 

And you dare talking about how westerners treat their women? :eek:

[bilan]

flipmode when you do not pay attention to what people say and make things up and make them look they way you want it to look, then i do not think you are worthy to be replied, i do not accept neither from you nor from any human being to accuse me of insulting islam or even question my believes. who the heck are you to tell me that i can leave islam and denounce my religion, who gave you the power to invite people to leave the religion. :mad: :mad: . did you even understood what i wrote. where on earth did i say that i have a problem with islam. i hate to repeat and explain what is already clear. i said the authors of these kind of articles have a problem more serious than how western women dress,if they do not believe 100% islam is superior than any other religion and are trying to convince themselves by writting these kind of articles. maybe you see things that i do not see,but do tell me where did i insult islam based on what i wrote,or i indicated i am looking for another religion. does accusing people of not being muslims make you more muslim?

the reason we do not see a lot of articles being written about muslim women and their problem is that every time someone even dares to open discussion about muslim women and their plight they are accused of insulting islam by holier than thou group and then they have to defend their believes and forget their initial discussion. next time flipmode reread before you hit the reply button.

[-Serenity-]

Originally posted by The Flipmode..:

Finally

THE MOST BROKE LADY

..I ever heard of.

Hey! dont insult my cash-cow like that. She spends more on shoes than u earn in a month! :mad: :mad:

 

Darn you Arab-Somalis! Havent a clue what mortgage is or how mind-blowingly expensive it is to own property!

[Socod_badne]

Originally posted by The Flipmode..:

Before I start, let me caution BILAN against Insulting ISLAM in any way..

 

 

You'd be advised to cease with the mafia styled bullying tactics. Who are you to tell other MUSLIMS not insult Islam? Or have you got carried away with your perception of self grandiose and convinced yourself that Islam belongs to you and not to Allah?

 

 

THE WORST SCENARIO

REAL LIFE SITUATION/DIVORCE AND SINGLE FATHERS/MOTHERS/WACELO

 

This is what happened to somali women who thought they are free AND LIBERATED..to do as they please and they shouldn't seek resolution to their differences with their husbands so they can keep their homes secure from splits and from rendering kids fatherless.

 

 

You're woefully wrong in your analysis of the prevelance of divorces and single parents found in Western based somalis. Unlike the mistaken believe held by most somalis (of both genders) for the increased broken homes, single parents and divorces, the truth of the matter exonerates both genders.

 

While it is true that expectations of each gender has changed over the years, alot remains the same. Somali men aren't lazy or good for nothing, they certainly aren't back home. Same goes for somali women. Back home, both genders get along fine and there are less broken homes. The problem seems limited to the West. This should give us a hint and hopefully provide the real reason for high divorce rates among somalis in the West.

 

If you look at the West in general, divorce rates are astronomical and the highest in the world. This is generally true regardless of religion, political leaning, race etc. Somalis being part of the West are susceptible to the same causes that lead to high divorce rates and single parents in the societies they live in. Why we would expect otherwise is mystifying to me.

 

The soaring divorce rates in the West are not due to women being liberated as wrongly suggested by Flipmode and others, but by more objectively measurable variables like economics (main reason!!!), longer life spans and almost negligible infant mortality rates. All three combined produce a noxious mix that incapacitates, cripples the will and the wherewithal of those wishing to have a family. It is almost impossible to start a family in the West unless: you're very rich or willing to settle for lower living standard. Since most people are not rich and are unwilling to live at or below the poverty line, divorce or single parenthood is inelectuble historical imperative.

 

So, Flipmode, don't blame the liberation of women for single parents and high divorce rates. Such blame is unfounded. The real reasons for them, as I explained, show no link between high divorce rates and women's liberation.

[makalajabti]

Khayr wrote just the other night, my wife went to a somali gathering and everyone's favorite Poet-TOGANE was present. Well, Togane was spewing a whole lot of Confusion about Muslim Women and he said something like 'We need more Muslim Women Presidents etc...'...needless to say everyone was clapping and yelling Amin. My wife yelled out 'IstaghfurulAllah' infront of the crowd and told him straight that it wasn't in the Islamic Tradition saxib and that what Togane was saying was nothing but HUBRIS. I wasn't there, but needless to say, it was a proud moment for me-Alhamdulillah!

 

 

What have you got against women Khayr? Do you think they can't be "president"? Shame on you Mr Taliban :cool:

[- Femme -]

Originally posted by Curling Waterfall:

quote:Originally posted by The Flipmode..:

Finally

THE MOST BROKE LADY..I ever heard of.

Hey! dont insult my cash-

cow

like that. She spends more on shoes than u earn in a month! :mad: :mad:

 

Darn you Arab-Somalis! Havent a clue what mortgage is or how mind-blowingly expensive it is to own property!

Well, if she wastes her hard earned cash on some brand name dacas, then of course the thought of mortgage is going to send her into a seizure.

 

Flipmode,

With that article and your rants, are you trying to convince us or yourself dear?