Saudi Scholars and Adult Breast-Feeding

[Prometheus]

Adult Breastfeeding Establishes "Maternal Relations"

 

Sounds to Me Like Some Countries Have Mommy Issues...

 

As many of us know, women and men in Saudi Arabia must be careful not to mingle, as the insanely strict Islamic law bans mixing between the sexes who are not related. Recently, the Saudis have issued a fatwa that forces women who come into contact with unrelated men on a regular basis to breastfeed them so that they can be considered “relatives” and not potential lovers. The strangest part is, this isn’t the actual issue at hand. The issue is, how do the men get the milk? I know, it just gets weirder.

 

According to the Gulf News, Sheikh Al Obeikan, a consultant to the Ministry of Justice and an adviser to the royal court stated, “the man should take the milk, but not directly from the breast of the woman. He should drink it and then becomes a relative of the family, a fact that allows him to come in contact with the woman without breaking Islam’s rules about mixing.”

 

This fatwa applies to men who regularly come into contact with the same woman, or men who live in the same house with a woman. The woman has to pump her breast milk into a glass and give it to the unrelated male. Doesn’t that sound appetizing?

 

But, not all agree with giving the milk in such a way. Oh, no. Another high-profile sheik, Abi Ishaq Al Huwaini, believes that the men should suckle the breast milk directly from the woman’s breast. Now we are talking! How is it that you can get close enough to suckle, though, without getting thrown in jail? If the genders aren’t allowed to mix, how could you do this without the religious police on your ***? This is serious stuff! Under this strict Islamic law, women aren’t allowed to vote, drive, or leave the country without the consent of a male “guardian”.

 

For example, in March 2009, a 75 years old Syrian widow named Khasmisa Mohammad Sawadi---I repeat---75 years old---was sent to jail for six months and given forty lashes after the religious police found out that two men (who were not her relatives) were in her home, delivering bread. Now, did they really think she was getting it on with these two delivery boys? Give me a break! And, even if she was, who cares? Why the obsession over what goes on behind closed doors between consenting adults?

 

In order to escape punishment, one of the two men, Fahd, explained to police that Sawadi had breast-fed him as an infant, so he was allowed to be there. But, later, the judge ruled that it couldn’t be proven that he was her “breast milk son.” He was given forty lashes and received four months in jail. His friend received sixty lashes and six months in the slammer. Sounds like this judge needs his mommy. Someone’s a wittle cranky.

 

But, how did this whole breast milk controversy start, anyway? The originator of the adult breast-feeding fatwa was issued in Egypt three years ago. Ezzat Attiya, an Egyptian scholar, was expelled from al-Azhar University (one of the top Sunni Islam universities) for advocating breast-feeding of men as a way to get around not being able to mingle with the opposite sex. Clever, clever. A year later, he was reinstated.

 

Soon after the fatwa was issued in Saudi Arabia, a woman threatened to file a lawsuit against a bus driver in the country’s Eastern Region after he reportedly told her that he wanted to suckle milk from her breast. Great, just what the women of Saudi Arabia need. More men thinking they own the rights to women’s bodies, specifically, breasts.

 

Under Islamic law, women are told to breast-feed their babies until they are two years old. It is common for sisters to breast feed their nephews so that they and their daughters will not have to cover their faces in front of them when they get older. The snazzy term for this is called “breast milk sibling.”

 

However, breast milk siblings must be breast fed five times before the age of two for this to hold water...or in this case...milk. Islam forbids sexual relations between a woman and man that she breast fed as an infant. They can be alone together because he isn’t considered a potential mate. What’s with all the crazy rules inside of rules? No wonder people are constantly fighting and confused over there! They don’t even know which end is up!

 

Blogger Eman Al Nafjan said that many in Saudi Arabia are disgusted by this fatwa.

 

“The whole issue just shows how clueless men are. All this back and forth between sheiks and not one bothers to ask a woman if it’s logical, let alone possible to breastfeed a grown man five fulfilling breast milk meals.” She blogs.

 

“Moreover, the thought of a huge hairy face at a woman’s breast does not evoke motherly or even brotherly feelings. It could go from the grotesque to the erotic but definitely not maternal.”

 

Al Nafjan goes on to say to AOL News Friday, “We have many important issues that need discussing. It’s ridiculous to spend time talking about adult breast-feeding.”

 

Thank you, Al Nafjan for pointing out the “glitch” in this absurd plan! How would breast feeding a grown man create a non-sexual relation? Have any of these sheiks ever watched porn? Men love breasts! They want to kiss them, lick them, suckle them, motorboat them...to assume that this would create a maternal feeling towards a grown man leaning down and sucking on a non-related woman’s breast is creepy.

 

Not only does this new rule disturb me as a woman, it is also logistically impossible to implement and keep track of. First off, not all women breast feed. You have to have just had a baby to do that, usually. Some women are incapable of producing breast milk. And, perhaps, oddly enough, they don’t want to share this sacred moment between mother and child with random, grown men who have teeth! Yikes!

 

When will the madness stop? Just another way to control women’s bodies, and confuse men into believing that women are nothing more than vessels to be used whenever they see fit.

 

If this was a fictional novel, one of the saucier female characters would invite a high and mighty sheik to suckle her breast, but secretly she would coat her nipple with a poisonous, undetectable salve. Then, boom! One sheik down! Who’s next? My guess is that would stop the invasion of the boobie-sucklers.

[Prometheus]

SeeKer stated in another thread that she was surprised to discover that this adult breast-feeding buiseness isn't fiction. Some mullahs actually preach and believe this stuff.

 

Most muslims probably have not even heard of this quaint and quirky fatwa, but mainstream arabic news websites and forums have been abuzz with this story for a few weeks. The whole issue of 'adult breast-feeding' is simultaneously risible and ridiculous. On the one hand, a group of Saudi scholars argue that a man can drink fresh breast-milk from a cup if he wishes to establish maternal relations. On the other hand, a rival group argues that the grown man must be suckled directly. Abu Ishaq Al-Huwaini even hurls invectives at people who argue that the breast-feeding should not be directly from the breast. Apparently, in his eyes, those people are not puritan enough. Rather, they are, he exhorts us, cravenly shying away from the pure sunnah so as to accomodate the sensibilities of non-muslims who would find such queer rituals worthy of pity and mockery.

 

What planet do these people live on?

:rolleyes:

[xiinfaniin]

^^Source?

 

Not only does this new rule disturb me as a woman, it is also logistically impossible to implement and keep track of. First off, not all women breast feed. You have to have just had a baby to do that, usually. Some women are incapable of producing breast milk. And, perhaps, oddly enough, they don’t want to share this sacred moment between mother and child with random, grown men who have teeth! Yikes!

[Prometheus]

xiin, sxb I will furnish you with plenty of references. Judging by your arabic signature, I think you probably read arabic, so I won't even bother you with second-hand translations. Initially, I read this on an arabic news site. You can find the actual fatwas by Obeikan and Abu Ishaq Al-Huweini online too. Therefore, you don't have to rely exclusively on arabic news reports.

 

Embarrassing as this whole issue is, I have to admit that narrations about breast-feeding grown men are found in fine books like Bukhari. It's hardly revelatory. Give me a few minutes. I'll get the actual references. I had them saved somewhere.

[Chocolate and Honey]

Why does she f-ing care? I hate sensationalism! It is not her country, her religion, her body, and her issue.

I doubt that anyone is forcing these women to suckle grown men. Should they choose to, it is permissible and the guideline must be followed.

[Prometheus]

This piece in al-arabiya summarizes the ostensible basis of this ridiculous fatwa. Al-Watan also had this piece.

 

Al-Obeikan actually edited his initial fatwa after a barrage of WTFs from many quarters. Now, he stipulates that such rituals should only be performed sparingly. Here's the arabic fatwa. As for the stark mad, raving lunatic fatwa, which insinuated that a man must be suckled directly from the breast, well, I guess I'll let Sheikh Abu Ishaq explain it in his own words.

 

Chocolate, this story did not recieve much press attention in the West. However, in the middle east, it was the front-page story of many major newspapers. You should not feel slighted by this article at all. It's funny but sad. One female arab blogger (despite her scorn for these mullahs, she's Saudi) had this to say about the idiotic obessesion of men with women in Saudi Arabia.

[Prometheus]

At any rate, these mullahs must be forced to find a productive line of work. So untethered to reality are these men, so outrageously out of touch, so inanely impractical that they actually think grown men should run around requesting breast-milk if the 'need' arises. This is their contribution to Saudi society. No wonder the Saudi blogger was cringing with repulsion.

[Blessed]

Originally posted by chocolate & honey:

. Should they choose to, it is permissible and the guideline must be followed.

Permissible to suckle grown men?????

[Ibtisam]

The hadith normally used: Book 008, Number 3425:

 

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (puberty) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

The hadith would seem to contradict the Quran which says breastfeeding is only in 2 years of childhood :

 

"Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; (that is) for those who wish to complete the suckling. " 2:233

 

It contradicts hadiths in Mutaa Malik and Muslim :

 

"Yahya related to me from Malik that Yahya ibn Said said that he heard Said ibn al-Musayyab say, "Suckling is only while the child is in the cradle. If not, it does not cause flesh and blood relations." (Book #30, Hadith #30.1.11)

 

The late Sheikh Al-Alabani did defend this hadith in speech.

 

All that aside with the level of faxaisha coming from certain societies, I think the rise of festishs makes the people defending this now or advocating for it now I'm a bit "hmmmm" about their intentions. I think the Shikes are being taking on a ride here.

[Che -Guevara]

LoooooL@blessed..we should check C&H local imam being preaching.

 

Seriously Ibti you actually had to quote Hadith?

[Ibtisam]

Why @ Che? Miya la qarininya?

 

The hadith exist, and has done so for centuries; why it is suddenly being used is the issue. Why now? and how is this linked to the new inventions of sexual expression.

[nuune]

Why is this Rhazes obssessed with Saudis, specially Saudi Women!

[Ibtisam]

^^Cocerio bey wax iisu yihiin malah.

[Prometheus]

Ibti, Al-Albani et al defended this hadith simply because this hadith is recorded in Bukhari. Why should it be accepted that the compilation of Bukhari is unquestionable? Doesn't the Quran take precedence over Bukhari? Doesn't common sense take precedence over Bukhari? Surely, this hadith is a little too much to swallow - pardon the pun. Besides, doesn't this recent debate over whether a grown man should be suckled directly or indirectly highlight how ridiculously bizarre the whole discussion is?

[nuune]

^^ Ibti, kan mid qumman maba ahanba, the other day saudi women banned from world cup buu wadey, hadana waxan, isn't it another fetish for Saudi women