The New York Times: Tapes Reveal Egyptian Leaders’ Tacit Acceptance of Jerusalem Move

[Holac]

 

As President Trump moved last month to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, an Egyptian intelligence officer quietly placed phone calls to the hosts of several influential talk shows in Egypt.

 

“Like all our Arab brothers,” Egypt would denounce the decision in public, the officer, Capt. Ashraf al-Kholi, told the hosts.

 

But strife with Israel was not in Egypt’s national interest, Captain Kholi said. He told the hosts that instead of condemning the decision, they should persuade their viewers to accept it. Palestinians, he suggested, should content themselves with the dreary West Bank town that currently houses the Palestinian Authority, Ramallah.

 

“How is Jerusalem different from Ramallah, really?” Captain Kholi asked repeatedly in four audio recordings of his telephone calls obtained by The New York Times.

 

“Exactly that,” agreed one host, Azmi Megahed, who confirmed the authenticity of the recording.

 

For decades, powerful Arab states like Egypt and Saudi Arabia have publicly criticized Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, while privately acquiescing to Israel’s continued occupation of territory the Palestinians claim as their homeland.

 

But now a de facto alliance against shared foes such as Iran, the Muslim Brotherhood, Islamic State militants and the Arab Spring uprisings is drawing the Arab leaders into an ever-closer collaboration with their one-time nemesis, Israel — producing especially stark juxtapositions between their posturing in public and private.

 

Mr. Trump’s decision broke with a central premise of 50 years of American-sponsored peace talks, defied decades of Arab demands that East Jerusalem be the capital of a Palestinian state, and stoked fears of a violent backlash across the Middle East.

 

Arab governments, mindful of the popular sympathy for the Palestinian cause, rushed to publicly condemn it.

 

Egyptian state media reported that President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi had personally protested to Mr. Trump. Egyptian religious leaders close to the government refused to meet with Vice President Mike Pence, and Egypt submitted a United Nations Security Council resolution demanding a reversal of Mr. Trump’s decision. (The United States vetoed the resolution, although the General Assembly adopted a similar one, over American objections, days later.)

 

King Salman of Saudi Arabia, arguably the most influential Arab state, also publicly denounced Mr. Trump’s decision.

 

At the same time, though, the kingdom had already quietly signaled its acquiescence or even tacit approval of the Israeli claim to Jerusalem. Days before Mr. Trump’s announcement, the Saudi crown prince, Mohamed bin Salman, privately urged the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, to accept a radically curtailed vision of statehood without a capital in East Jerusalem, according to Palestinian, Arab and European officials who have heard Mr. Abbas’s version of events.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/06/world/middleeast/egypt-jerusalem-talk-shows.html

 

[Old_Observer]

One SOLer got mad at me when I stated:

 

"Egyptians are known to sell anything anytime anywhere.."

 

In 1876 the Egyptians attacked Ethiopia, in Eritrea, with 20,000 soldiers and more than 100 Americans, european and Turk advisors leaders. More than 40 Americans that included 4 generals (deputy commander of confederate army General Loring was chief of staff of Egypt and he was at the battle). The Egyptians lost catastrophically. The Khadive (king of Egypt) called the British and Egypt became protectorate of the British Empire.

 

[Holac]

Al-Sisi is just a brain-dead dictator oppressing his own people. The Egyptian people are good people. 

[Old_Observer]

I do not like speaking ill of any people as people, but Egyptians are the only country where they can be led to next war by a general who catastrophically lost the last war.

In other societies generals like that are either demoted, retired, punished or commit suicide. In Egypt they celebrate October war to this day (Its called Yom Kippur war). A whole division in the sinai raised the white flag against a small Israeli force that went behind them and fired few bullets (a small unit led by Ariel Sharon).

Husni Mubarek was in the airforce when Israel incapacitated Egptian airforce while on the ground, yet he went up the ladder and was president for 30 years. How could he ever want to try against Israel after being in those endless defeats.

 

 

[galbeedi]

Holac,

 

It looks like you transforming SOL to be the mouthpiece of Ethiopian propaganda. Egypt this Egypt that, and dictator SISi. IF there is an evil dictatorship that maimed our country and have killed Somalis from Gedo all the way to Zaylac is the Tigray dictatorship of Meles and his Wayaane controlled  puppet Hailemarium. Please do not fall in the Wayaane cry that every protest in Ethiopia is the work of Egypt.

 

Aslo, those of us who flow or analyze international intelligence and the art of manipulation are well aware of planting stories in papers for nefarious reasons. This New York times article  is one of those stories that is exploiting the Arab masses for political reasons.

 

It was Egypt who sponsored the UN resolution that was trying to condemn Israeli settlement, but Trump asked them to postpone. When Egypt tried to counter Obama policy and approached the Russians for arms their airplanes started falling from the skies. In fact the latest resolution to deny the Trump Jerusalem announcement was sponsored by Egypt and Yemen. 

 

OO is delusional guy . He talks about fantom stories or legends by the Ethiopians, and Egyptians wars. He keep saying Ethiopia is our neighbor and is there to stay. We are saying Ethiopia should not stay in this neighborhood unless it changes  fundamentally. Every where nations are transformed including CHina, but the WAyaane backed system can not continue this way or it  will collapse. We Somalis believe that the presence of this country in this region has arrested the development of whole region. We believe this old empire should be abolished.

 

THey are anti trade and free entrepreneurship. the 20 millions of Somalis and Oromos in Western regions bordering Somalia are poor and underdeveloped due to trade restrictions and oppressions. Open trade between Somalis and those communities would have helped everyone. Millions of Oromos are leaving their region because of high unemployment and oppression. If Ethiopia goes down this  huge potential of the region will transform the whole region. Somali ports will be busy serving the Oromo and others.

 

This nation is backward and static nation ruled evil people. Nothing changes, Imagine from 1930-2012, which is 82 years,  that had only three leaders: Haile Salase, Mengistu and Meles. There is no other place in the 20th century where only three men ruled close to a century.

 

We Somali nomads do not worry about Egypt or their beef with Wayaane led Ethiopia. 

 

Somalis, are becoming really fragmented in So many ways. One group is separatist who want to dismember the country without realizing the weakness of this argument, while others in KIsmaayo and Jijiga are serving foreign occupiers and helping our enemies to oppress our people, at the same time a third group is solely concentrated to making money (Beeso) and keeping  the anarchy. Yet, there are proud Somalis who will not rest until real change comes, and that change will not be in Egypt but overthrow of WAyaane led Ethiopia.

 

It is unfortunate the biggest worries of SOLers is Egypt now, instead of the WAyaane enemy. This Wayaane fool is even calling the October war a defeat. On one side he is presenting himself like someone who is opposed to the Israeli policy in the region, yet , he is writing here like another  Israeli propagandist talking about  Egypt losing the war.

 

The Egyptian army crossed the Sinai and overrun  the Israeli army quickly. As they approached the border of Israel , the Nixon administration did a massive air lift to turn the war in favor of  Israel. In fact they had almost clear victory without the American intervention. After that American action, the Arabs initiated the oil embargo of America and others in 1973, which tripled oil prices. He haven't even seen  the popular movies made on that issue. You probably going through some pogus place and copying  and pasting  and throw horse shit here, expecting that these Somalis might fell in your trap. 

 

OO, if you want to bash Egypt or attack them go by all means, but stop your Egypt bashing here. WE are not interested. I really see you as a paid troll to keep spreading false and half truths, and that is what paid trolls do. They keep immersing themselves. 

[maakhiri1]

It looks to me Ethiopia has woken up to how Russians influenced American election and amateurishly planting this ai bot  OO AND others in all websites, I even noticed someone with his style of writing in Oromo forum.

 

I wonder how many other bots are out there, in Somali websites,  Isreal helps Ethiopia  big time specially last uprising, Isreali were there to monitor Telcos. I wonder if he is even real, some of his posts sound very unhuman  robotic! It is a new trend.

 

one thing is clear, Ethiopia is about to collapse and this is last desperate to cling to power.

[Holac]

Galbeedi, we all know Ethiopia is the enemy of the Somalis, but we are commenting on the hottest geopolitical story of today which is about the Gulf-Turkey rift.  It is a fascinating story and as you can see I am not on the side of Egypt. It is ok to have a different opinion on the Egyptian dictator. I don't have to post topics everyone agrees with. We don't have to have the same opinion on everything. I respect you and your opinion. I don't attack or insult anyone saxib.

 

The hot topic about Ethiopia right now is the Oromo-Somali conflict and we have many topics about that on SOL already. 

 

If you are a big fan of everything Egypt, that is perfectly fine. We should also not forget that Egypt is not heaven for our suffering people. 

 

 

 

[galbeedi]

Holac,

 

Holac, All is fine. You are respectable guy and I appreciate your presence. 

 

Waxa i Dhibaysa ninka waranku intuu igu dhiftay hadana igu kor heesaye , islamarkaana diyaarinays in mar kale la i gawraco. 

 

Actually I am not a fan of SISI. He is a butcher who killed 5000 people in one single day, and I am 100% pro Turkish who are helping us build Somalia again. Yet I see these crazy stories by OO which seems like  written by robots, planting incoherent stories about Egypt -Ethiopia war of last century or Persians in Iraq and so many strange things. 

 

I do believe just like the Yemenis becoming refugees, the gulf countries could become the next refugees of the region if they do not change.

 

I talk to people back home and they all indicate the imminent collapse of Ethiopia and they think the key is stable and functioning Sonalia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Holac]

Galbeedi, OO maaha nin ingiriska aad u yaqaan. I don't believe he is a robot. AI is not that advanced to play mind-games with us on a Somali forum. What I like about OO is that he has a lot of anecdotal stories about past historical events. Some of his stories are heavily biased of course, but many are very credible.  

I am waiting for the day he insults my Somali heritage. That is the day I will take on him. It is better to engage him just like you and I are doing. Counter propaganda with facts. That is how the forum is supposed to be. Afar is taqaan inay isu nacamleeyaan ma wanaagsana. Diversity of opinion is a blessing. 

[anoo kale]

Holac

 

Somali family in the YouTube video drowned, those are the autopsy pictures, they were wild rumors circulating when this came out that the family was killed and their organs stolen but that was disproved. Gory and sad sight, but when you don't value your life who is to blame other than yourself ? If you devalue your life who is responsible ultimately ? I feel sad for the babies.

 

I want to create a thread about the African migration crisis.

 

 

 

 

[cadnaan1]

Old_Observer u came to this forum without introduction and everyone is saying Ur tigree so tell us what's true.

[Old_Observer]

This is all to be expected:

Tigray

and now AI bot

Weyannie Intelligence operative

 

Its an internet culture to label someone, in the hope that posts would not be read, rather than disproving.

 

Egypt seems to be sensitive point for some. I agree we should not hate anyone, but disliking their actions on the Palestinians and Libya is unacceptable on any level. Their sabotaging Sudan at every turn is simply greed and betrayal.

 

You do not think there are Somalis who really dislike Egyptian ways, if that is your criterion for me being Tigray.

 

adnaan1,

Let it take some time and maybe we get more creative labels. So far the labels are run of the mill kind.

[Mooge]

galbeedi and holac are good guys. don't be turning on each other because you disagree. even xayawaan goats don't agree on everything. 

 

OO, niyoow why do you always call us somali instead of Somalis?  Somali is singular. you can say  Somali People or Somali Region. lol

 

 

[Duufaan]

SISI is a typical dictator and unpredictable. He is not  loyalty to anyone but he can not survive without his friends who brought him to power. There will be no war between Ethiopia and Egypt. There are more similarities than differences.  The water issue will be solved in mediation by friends of these countries. Ethiopia will probably have a new regime change similar than one they had 1991. Preparation for Adisaba oromo  take over are already in place.   We should cautious the replacement of  Wayaane controlled  puppet Hailemarium. 

[galbeedi]

expect a collapse within a year. The Wayaane are attacking everyone to distract people from the real issues.

 

About a week or so ago, someone sent me  an anonymous  E-mail  from somewhere and asked me to stop the anti-Ethiopian threads or else.. He was probably someone who was a member of SOL , or  familiar with this forum. 

 

I ignored , just like any hateful Email  you  receive from trolls. Then the next day, a contributor to an Awdal website inside Borama wrote a news article claiming that a group of Oromo fighters  are  being trained in "Waraqa Dhigta Iyo Cunqabad", two locations in the border region across Borama. It was a false story, and no one knows whether it was planted by outside sources or if the boys  were paid by a TPLF operative  in Borama

 

Those two journalists were arrested and today they were convicted of writing false information that was detrimental to the security of the region. Also, some elders went to Cabdi Illey and reassured him about the safety of the border.

 

In their defence, The journalists say that they have no idea how this news was written in their website and insisted that it was planted by hackers . 

 

 

 

I might be wrong, but this could Wayaane attacking us indirectly to silence us. In 1984, a group of WSLF fighters attacked the Djibouti-Addis train and took away with some goods, The SNM who were based inside told the Mengistu government that those who attacked the train were Somali soldiers based in Borama. Few days latter, Ethiopian fighter jets came to Borama and bombed an elementary school children between six and 13 years old and their teachers. It was a huge tragedy.

 

So , instead of being an armchair warrior , who might cause big problems and unintended consequences  to his community,  I Galbeedi should take part on the efforts of bringing back the country and leave the keyboard.