Flashback: Aidiid rallies troops accusing MANIFESTO of breaking up the country into North and South

[Holac]

 

[maakhiri1]

You shouldn't waste your precious time, posting murderous warlord who screwed up Somalia, may he rot in hell.

 

History will judge manifesto group as visionary and very brave. If only Somalis  listened to them back then we would  have a different history today.

[Holac]

Maakhiri, Caydiid was all the above you said in the end, but this speech gives some perspective.

 

What if  Manifesto allowed Caydiid to run the country? Would the country be in such a terrible situation today?

 

 

 

[anoo kale]

1 hour ago, Holac said:

What if  Manifesto allowed Caydiid to run the country? Would the country be in such a terrible situation today?

 

That is a question we will ponder for ages 

 

The stars were not aligned for us.

 

 

 

 

[maakhiri1]

2 hours ago, Holac said:

Maakhiri, Caydiid was all the above you said in the end, but this speech gives some perspective.

 

What if  Manifesto allowed Caydiid to run the country? Would the country be in such a terrible situation today?

 

 

 

There were many times I thought about this, it is possible this would have been a political solution the same way if he had listened to their demands, which were simple, to bring everyone on-board and elect a leader democratically., in transition Ali Mahdi would lead. BUT alI Aidid wanted was to replace Dictator Siyad Barre. If he succeeded who knows what he would bring and I doubt he cared if the country was divided.

 

The other day when Ali Abdalla Salah was killed, I said it is a political solution, because it is better to deal  one group instead of USC branching out into dozen groups.

 

But to understand Manifesto, read their Manifesto early 1990 when Siyad was still in power, they were really ahead of their time.

 

 

 

 

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

6 hours ago, Holac said:

Maakhiri, Caydiid was all the above you said in the end, but this speech gives some perspective.

 

What if  Manifesto allowed Caydiid to run the country? Would the country be in such a terrible situation today?

 

Maxaa Siyaad Barre loo erye haddii Caydiid laga dhigaayo madaxweyne in a few months. Ma istaahilin inuu madaxweyne qaran noqdo ninkaas and his actions proved it so. He had no plan whatsoever to be a president, either. His undisciplined militias bililiqo waxee ku bilaabeen all xarumihii dowladda lahayd, from warshadihii, wasaaradihii to xarumihii ciidamada militari, wax la dhaafay ma lahayn, no document saved. No foresighted plan to install militias and guard such national places.

 

They looted, ignorantly believing as though Siyaad Barre family or clan personally owned them. Compare what happened to Itoobiya in that same year when Mingiste regime was removed. No government place was looted.

 

Xamar ayaan joogay in the years of 1991-1992 when his militia ay Xamar - magaaladaa aad u jeclaa - dhulka la simeen, specially xaafadeena oo waagaas loo bixiye Bermuuda.

[Che -Guevara]

I was in Xamar when Ab and HG went to war at the behest of their crazed leaders. The funny thing was, a couple of months before, if you said you are from D-Block. You would have been killed on the spot.

 

But when USC start killing each other, saying you are from D-Block saved your life. They used to say waad soo daahdey soco.This brought  up the question was the civil war.

 

The conflict was merely about power hungry who realized the best option to gain power was wimped their clan into frenzy in order so they sit on the kursi.

 

It soon became clear the war was never about lighting injustice

 

p.s. I remember Magool  inciting violence, first against D-Block and then against Ab clan.

 

[cadnaan1]

Odaygaas ceydiid dadbaa aaminsan inuu qabrigiisa habeenkii Nuur ka baxo oo dhahaayo awliyo ayuu ahaa khaliif ceydiid

 

Laakin wuxuu shaqaystay aakhiro ayuu la aaday ee warkiisa iska dhaafa allaah naxariisto.

[galbeedi]

General Caydiid  (AHN) was one of the alphabetic Somali movements who destroyed our country with SNM, SSDF, SPM, USC and others. Caydiid was the product of his time. His is actions were that of military general who was trying to defeat his adversaries in military means than a calculating politician.

 

I was not inside the country in 1991, but I heard the harrowing journeys people took to just leave MOgadishu. Innocent people leaving the capital to other destinations were targeted in Jowhar and mostly in the Hiiraan region. Innocent Somalis of every clan other than the USC were murdered without reason. 

 

Since I was not there and most of the narratives are from eyewitnesses, I would leave that story to those who were there. Now, let me add my few senses on the political issue of Manifesto , General Caydiid and what followed later.

 

No one doubts that the " Manifesto" were civic leaders and elders who were trying to  find peaceful transfer of power from Siyaad Barre to a caretaker government, yet their actions led to the dismantling of the national army, the Mogadishu civil war and the declaration of SNM to separate from Somalia.

 

First and foremost , only an irredentist and illogical  Somali would have the thought  of defeating the Somali military of 1982. SSDF was a serious threat hat waged a war from Goroyo Cawl,  in the outskirts of Borama to Mudug , Galgaduud, all the way to Dolow. With the help from South Yemen, Libya and Ethiopia  they were a serious threat to the nation, yet they could not capture other than Galdogo and Balabale with help of EThiopian army. Unlike SSDf, the SNM was regional and their efforts were solely targeted to Woqooyi Galbeed and Togdheer. Despite their huge tribal support and sacrifices,  they could not capture one single village . THis is a fact. 

 

The USC itself had entered MOgadishu without facing a major war or confrontation with Somali army, and all the subsequent wars that followed did happen after Siyaad Barre left Villa-Somalia.

 

THere should be probably another thread of the useless " Janhado"  who destroyed our country. Folks, there is a difference between the overthrow of a regime, defeat of a regime , change of government by violence, and just the destruction of the country. The " Jabhado" especially SNM knew that the only way t change the regime in SOmalia was to destroy the whole country from Zaylac to KIsmaayo. Even some composer prayed for that destruction.

 

Anyway, let me go back to the topic at hand.

 

Every country that was overthrown by armed rebels, those who were commanding the movement took in charge, whether that is Eritrea, Ethiopia , Uganda or Rwanda. Even the SNM commander C/raxman Tuur took in charge of Northern Somalia. Manifesto, despite its good intentions made three huge errors that hunted Somalia for generation.

 

1- They dismantled the Somali national army.

 

AHN, Dr. Cumar Cusmaan Raabe, A philospher and a man who studied the Somali region for twenty years,  had  said,  the Manifest imposed prime minister Cumar Carte Qalib has done what SNM could not do for ten years which was the dismantling of the national army. 

 

After he was appointed prime minister by Cali Mahdi, he went to the national radio and gave an order to dismantle the national army. He said, " The Army members who are in the north must disarm and give their weapons to the SNM guerilla guys, and those in the south must surrender to the USC.  " Ciidamadii Qaranka ayuu amar ku siiyey in ay Hubka qabill ku wareejiyaan" . This action, dissolved the national army that could have protected the borders and could have used by the next government for the security of the nation. Patriotic Somalis consider Cumar Carte as the one of the most cruel men in  the history, of Somalia who single handedly brought Somalia to its knees,  yet his Son was in Mogadishu appointed as deputy premier. Corrupt southern politicians do not even know basic history.

 

Donald Rumsfeld, the American secretary of state has done exactly like that after the overthrow of SAddam Hussein and dismantled the strong IRaqi army that could have been used to keep the order. What followed was the civil war and the anarchy of Iraq. Unlike Somalia, when the TPLF took over the country, they went all the way to the borders, they did not change one single general or even the ministers who were serving under Mengistu. First they pacified the country and consolidated their power, and then slowly changed the military officers without tempering the  rank and file soldiers . People who have met him told me that  INa Carte Qalib bragged about his success of dismantling the army , and the difficult task of trying to rebuild the Somali National Army.

 

2-Manifesto was not among the warring factions.

 

As many of you have stated Manifesto was a civic organization that was not part of the warring faction that was fighting to replace Siyaad Barre. THey were not armed. THey were wise men who were trying to find bloodless change despite the gathering of the storm from the tribal rebels. 

 

Siyaad Barre hated manifesto because, the main players of the organization were representatives of the old order he overthrew in 1969. In one of his  radio  attacks, Siyad Barre said, " Maanifesto , waa Gofaneyaashi Ku Naaxay Kacaaka Iyo Canaasiirtii uu Kacaanku Dartood U dhashay. Roughly means, that they were the combination of two groups, one who , the "H" were those who got rich of the revolution, the other, the Puntlanders, were those who the revolution overthrew. The problem was both Siyaad Barre and the rebels hated Manifesto equally. Rather than replaced by Manifesto, Siyaad Barre would have prefered Caydiid. While their heroic efforts to save the country from bloody war were their great achievements, they miscalculated the zeal of the leaders of the rebels to gain the  power  through the gun.

 

" Waxa ay isku dayeen in ay si dadban u hor jooog sadaan madaxda jabhadaha ee hamuunta u qabta hogaanka wadanka, sidoo kale waxay damcee in si xeeladaysan ay dalka dagaal lagu hoobto uga badbaadiyaan, hase yeeshee maysan ogayn in kursigani uu yahay mid dhiig badani ku daatay oon si fufud lagu hanan karyn.

 

A man with the barrel of the gun like Caydiid , definitely would not listen , Somali old timers trying to decide the faith of the country through dialogue.

 

3-Manifesto ignored USC, SNM and SSDF.

 

By nominating and endorsing the crowning of Ali Mandi as a president and Cumar Carte as prime minister, Manifesto not only ignored Caydiid and his rebels, but also the northern rebels who took over the north without firing a bullet in February 1991, after the Somali army abandoned and left their positions after the Cumar Carte proclamation to disarm. That decision , which gabe the power unarmed leaders like Cali Mahdi and cUmar Carte, gave the rebels of SNM to gather in Burco and proclaim secession.

 

Also, the government of Djibouti presided a hasty prospered coronation of Ali Mahdi while there was a war going in the south. In fact, when cali Mahdi came in Mogadishu as a president Caydiid and his men were in Afgooye, Bay and the inter river country side to face a resurgent of Siyaad Barre and other "D" block coalition who were trying to came back after they were targeted by the USC and others in MOgadishu. 

 

Most people say that Caydiid did not had a plan to rule the country and if he had succeeded , he would have been a ruthless dictator. Also, one must consider that Caydiid faced many challenges from many sides including the Americans. When the Americans intervened, there was a basic agreement between Caydiid and Cali Mahdi, yet, despite the crimes committed against the U.N peacekeepers, you can not write an arrest warrant and bounty on the head of the man who is leading the largest rebels in the country. That was the biggest political mistake the Americans had done. 

 

Who knows , if he was allowed to take charge, things might have been different. The Mogadishu scene disintegrated after his death, and Ethiopia never dared to enter Somalia while Caydiid was there. When Clinton changed the AMerican policy and decided to make a deal, Caydiid went to Addis, and when Meles greated him i his office , he said, " If Africa had lions like you the colonials would never had come to Africa".

 

I consider Caydiid and C.laahi Yusuf as tough men who had faced huge obstacles in life, and when I compare them with today's leaders they the toughest men Somalia had produced. No wonder, after Siyaad Baree took  over with his coup in 1969, Caydiid and C/laahi Yusuf were the first people he put in jail. 

 

In fact,  Djibouti has created many problems in Somalia for the last 27 years. In 1999, then president Cigaal went to Nairobi and met many of his old comrades there. They asked him to convene some kind of a gathering to reconcile the country and he promised to do something. He met Mohamed Abshir In Hargeisa and things were going in the right direction. Then suddenly Cumar Geelle a novice gangster who took over from his uncle a year earlier wanted to increase his stature among Somalis and  took over the project and decided to create a new formula which we call today 4.5. He told C/laahi Yusuf, Cigaal and others who running a functioning governments,  to leave that and come as representatives of their tribes. We are still sorting out the monster created by Gelle, and opportunists like Galayr, C/qasim and C/raxman Baadiyow., the later wasn't interested in power , but was one of civic leaders consulted by Cumar Geelle.

 

History would have judged Caydiid and many others, if good things came after them, but , with likes of Shariif Ahmed, Al-Shabab and what followed, they could be judged differently than 1991. 

 

I wish I would be sitting in Goobweyn or some Somali valley and writing my few senses without the interception of the rat race here in good old Canada.

[Old_Observer]

History (political) is better viewed from power centres. I start from those outside the Republic:

Djibouti - Its in their interest to keep what they have. The moment the Somali starts giving priority to anything other than Djibouti, the Somali loses Djbouti. No Somali should blame them for this, unless one expects them to throw away everything they have and worry about the rest of the Somali which they have least influence. done.

Ethiopia - Not considering all that went on in this part by Britain, Ethiopia, Italy, Somali Republic since it was all in the past, the Somali at the time we are considering has already thrown his lot with Ethiopia. Will stay in Ethiopia and try to improve his status and part in Ethiopia. Even with all his Somaliness the late president Abdullahi Yusuf agreed and blessed their decision when he was being freed from Mengistu prison.done

Kenya - The situation was ambigous and too far from the action and influence. done

 

Republic:

SSDF was the only organization that could have made the rebellion work with the least fructuring. SSDF had something in common with every Somali. They are regional centered and since the idea was that all Somalis felt not to again be ruled from Mogadishu for every detail, wanted to have local control, this would be accepted by most Somali. SSDF was also an over all Somali who had contacts in all north centre or south of the country and can negotiate with anybody. This was also the organization that had most solid and trusty relations with the new governemnt in Ethiopia.

SNM had had enough of the past and the only way it could participate with the rest was SNM is the driver/pilot. This was not possible with others, but was possible to work with SSDF. Confederation might have worked at the time, but to continue the same structures with change of personnel and party could not be a solution. Many of us cannot understand that its Italian colonialism of 60 years that made Eritrea a totally separate country even though 90% of its population is same as Afar Agew Tigray in Ethiopia.

USC was just a replacement of the Republic government by different president, different tribe that is all nothing new could happen. It did not even organize what they call their base and were only worried about other regions, to be brought under Mogadishu. That base is still in conflict while almost all others have at least have governments and attempt at order and security, some in south west still unseuccessfully.

BAY looks like caught off guard, things happened so suddenly and not prepared for anything. Should have allied with SSDF and at the very least would have achieved local order and government by now.

 

Some of you compared it with Ethiopia, but in Ethiopia most of the hard work was done, long before overthrow of Dictator. Tigray, Afar, Agew (Amhara Region) were like one organization from begining. Next allied was Somali and Hareri. The rest followed same. There was enough support in Oromo and Amhara as well, once inevitability was confirmed.