World Bank Poverty report on Somalia: Somaliland region(NW) poorer than Puntland

[Illyria]

As people, we have got our priorities upside down.

This is what we should be talking about instead of the usual diatribe of "mine is bigger or better" than yours.

 

“In line with other relevant non-monetary indicators, such as education and employment, households living in North East show a relatively low degree of inequality in access to an improved source of water between urban and rural areas. Indeed, more than seven in ten people living in urban households of North East have access to an improved source of water, against about 5 in ten in rural areas; a stark contrast to the North West region, where only 52 percent of urban dwellers and 9 percent of people living in rural households report access to an improved source of water (Figure 2.23). “

[Abdi Abdul]

@galbeedi

said:

 

To be honest I did not read the report, but we all know that per capita Somaliland has more stable middle class than both Puntland and even Mogadishu.

 

I use to think Galbeedi was ilbax and a sensible contributor. But why on earth would you write 8 paragraphs refuting a report you didn't even read?

 

Only a badow somali would refute a scientific report based on statistics with 'we all know that...'

 

Your first homework is to read the report, Galbeedi.

[anoo kale]

^^ Abdi,

 

His is a case of when reality contradicts your preconceptions you ditch reality. Hala yaabin ninka waxaa ku siiqay propagandiida 30 yrs isaaqu tufayeen. Do you all ever realize how he talks like an Isaaq supremacist ala Xaaji Xunjuf? The record is clear.

 

He is trying to mend fences with the secessionists, I have noticed that, he is less critical of them. This post and others are an effort to ingratiate himself to the clique. Don't be suprised one of these days if he comes out with a long post stating the reasons he is ditching Somaliweyn and fully supporting SL.

 

I have always found him to be a flaky, fickle, insincere, conceited and fairweather calan wade type character just like his uncle Prof Samatar.

[Illyria]

^^

You are talking about used methodologies of collecting data, which could be questioned and debated, however scientific methods and statistical formulae had been applied to analyse the data. The two are not mutually exclusive. Surely, you are not suggesting otherwise, are you?

 

Again, the focus must be upon deplorable conditions and glaring findings of the report mainly about lack of access to improved water (not clean water), incredibly low academic fulfillment and skillset, and lack of development in the country as a whole. I do realise that is hard for many, but try applying yourselves and squeeze that thinking organ.

[galbeedi]

Horta ninkan Illyra, nin cusub baan moodayey, laakiin hadan gartay i uu yahay ragii hore.

 

Guys, I criticize both Mogadishu , Hargeisa and Kismaayo, when I see inconsistencies and other issues.

 

Illyra, You do not need to accuse me schizophrenia or other names, then call for reasonable debate. I see People in Somali forums who say " IlLaahay Ha laga cabsado oo Qayaalada ha la iska daayo, Kadibna ka dab geeya reer hebel ayaa Soomaali qasaya ee halaga Qabto".

 

Any way if is any consolation, I did not call you a liar, but I was pointing out that statistics are used for nefarious purposes in order to propagate certain agenda. In any case, I would like to apologize for using bad words to explain my points. I blame my limited vocabulary for the infraction. This place is already becoming toxic, and I , Galbeedi should not be one of those mudding the water.

 

Guys, I am a champion of Puntland, and in these pages I did write the political maturity of the people despite the constant bad leadership that is ruling the land. Also, in these pages, we all need to be informed and educated i n so many different ways. Somalia, the people and the landscape probably has changed for the last thirty years.

 

In the early eighties when I traveled the highway from Gaalkacayo to Garoowe, the only village that was visible was Burtine, with two blocks on both side of the highway. Since then things has changed and a video clip that I saw during the drought showed Burtinle as vibrant town. Any way , I stand corrects o those new towns.

 

At the same time Puntland has huge land with less population. Having big space is not disadvantage. In fact, if you add the "Harti" land of Sool, Sanaag and Buuhoodle, Puntland could claim a third of Somali territories.

 

I did read the report, but I did not analyze it fully. When they said North west, they did not explain which North West. If you compare the two and half provinces of Puntland with five provinces of Somaliland, it is totally different both in population size and Urban area. I also conceded that because of less rural population Puntland might have less poverty compared to Somaliland.

 

Saaxiib ,

 

I objected your budget estimate and I do remember, in the early 2000, the Puntland budget was around 16 million. Lately, I have seen any where where the budget hit three digits.

 

Generally, I do not like these NGO's who keep spending money about FGM, poverty, and how many relieve aids Africa and others take. Those who compiled these report probably made a cool million that could have built an irrigation canal.

 

Furthermore, we should not be debating which village is bigger than mine or yours. WE are all poor Somalis ruled by corrupt oligarchs and thieves

 

As our friend Maakhiri said, we need someone to study the disastrous Qat effect both in Puntland and Somaliland which would have helped our people.

 

Finally, Puntlanders , please accept that sometimes we might throw an arrow in that side of the land so have a patience. .I have no hatred of MJ or Puntlanders.

 

Also , Lately I am in the mood to ignore these big Somali villages and concentrate for the big picture. On my fending fences to the SNM boys, that is just ridiculous. I have been criticising them for years, yet they have the backbone to take it.

 

Don't you think that in this election season that we should give some break to the SNM Habro and their neighbors for doing the unthinkable which is free election.

 

 

 

[Abdi Abdul]

Anoo Kale,

 

I am a long time reader here. Decided to post recently. Galbeedi seemed reasonable but the 'I didn't read the report yet I will try to refute it' did not sink well with me. It's badownimo to the core.

 

 

Oodweyne,

 

The world bank finances your so called country. You're eager to accept their money but not their scientific statistical based reports. This report is in line with a previous UN report that suggested that an IDP in Bosaso earns twice as much as a native hargaysaawi.

 

It speaks volume of your small mindness and pettiness that you try to question an immense poverty survey by the World bank, a survey that is 134 pages long!

 

The outcome also surprised the researchers to the point they added other poverty parameters such as consumption to see if they also match up to the other findings of the other parameters. They added two extra appendixes to show how careful the data has been assessed.

 

 

Never be a xaasid

[galbeedi]

As I said Boosaaso has a tradition of business and self reliance. They were never dependent on government handouts and jobs. By far the " Bari" region is the most populous in Puntland. Nugaal is very small. Before the Sool region became a province in the middle of eighties, the Nugaal region was : Garoowe, Tallex, Eyl iyo Laascaanood. After Sool became provence, Nugaal was left with Eyl and Garoowe then other small towns were added.

 

My only beef with the report is the sampling does not specify the size or the actual region. I agree the water access part which favors Puntland, yet because of huge Urban growth in Somaliland , a large number of cities have lower water access.

 

If you read carefully my quick written paragraphs , I did mention the size of middle class and access to wealth. Larger cities have more middle class and also large poor underclass.

[galbeedi]

Abdul said,

 

Your first homework is to read the report, Galbeedi.

 

Point well taken.

[Samafal]

This would not surprise me at all as I have been told by people who travelled Berbera Garowe triangle that they were astonished the widespread poverty that they see on the way to Berbera. Somaliland have few big family runned companies the likes of Dahabshiil, Oomar etc who are super rich at least in the Somali standard, but that comes to the detriment of small and medium sized enterprises. Puntland on the other hand does not have big companies as such but S&M is thriving hence wealth is better disbursed.

[galbeedi]

Samafal,

 

I do not know large businesses affect the overall middle class income, but one issue that I have been told many times in Somaliland is the effects of the Telecom companies in the economy. In fact I was trying to write about it for a while.

 

For example, the Telesom owned by Al-barakat , and Somtel which is owned by Dahabshiil are making a killing. In any part of the world , utilities, telephone and cable are regulated and taxed accordingly. There are commission to check their rates and charges. In Somaliland they set their own rates.

A friend who just came from Borama told me that people deposit two dollars a day for telephone service and it eats up quickly. On average , poor people pay almost $70 dollars a month. If you talk too much and use for business it could reach $150. If you add internet data it is hundreds.

 

Yet, no one is regulating them. Every young man and woman has a telephone. Furthermore, they will fight to the nail if any one tried to bring a internet competition. Dahabshiil is the monopoly. Some people tried to pull a cable from Oman, and when Siilaanyo and Dahabshiill found out they did stop immediately and the minister who signed the deal was fired. Certainly , there is huge concentration money i this companies. He told me they fire and hire ministers through their lobbying power.

[Illyria]

Galbeedi,

Point taken, apology accepted, and offered in return. I think deep down you are a decent run of the mill person, potentially misguided, but well-intentioned, and I will take back the amateur personalyses granted you could be persuaded to refrain from hasty, rash postulations, and being all over the map, esp. when discussing subjects beyond your metier, which I find rather infuriating.

 

Truth be told, I am not in the least bit interested in Somali politics, however the report attracted my attention for two reasons:

a) it contains measurable trendies in the Horn, and

b) it highlights the sufferable, desperate conditions under which people are living.

 

That breaks my heart. That interests me. And I could not care less about anyone’s political persuasion. I am more concerned about the young Somali student with no discernible future, and the prevailing hopelessness in the region.

 

But I realise none of that interests most ‘cos many are physiologically jarred.

 

By all means, criticise away at your heart’s content ‘cos that is part & parcel of being one with the people. It would be a missive on your part to do otherwise.

 

And by the way, for the record, and based upon my knowledge of the regions, and I do know of and about both regions, I would argue Northeast has larger concentration of nomads than Northwest, but ‘cos I do not have actual data to cite, I will therefore leave it till verifiable data has been published by yet another NGO.

 

Oodweyne,

I will read your note tomorrow. Could not keep it short, could you?

[Illyria]

See, Galbeedi, now you are getting it. Monopoly eliminates startups & kills completion, and by extension narrows wealthy distribution, which in turn shrinks the middle class. For example, in the UK, the largest middle class, per community, are the Indians, who, by and large, control small businesses in the UK. Conversely, the lowest are the West Indies, who own almost no small businesses in the UK with no discernible representation in the middle class. And the same applies to these regions.

Samalfal spoke to it well.

[Illyria]

Oodweyne,

I actually read the report a couple of times, and your questions are valid.

[Abdi Abdul]

Oodweyne,

 

You've written a lot but you did not say much. Instead of writing gibberish, why not give explicit example from the report? I can already tell by your answers that you do not have any background in methodology or statistics. The fact that you fixate on sample size instead of the statistical power, tells me of your methodological ignorance. Only someone with who lacks research knowledge will think that a bigger sample size will increase the power!

 

Anyways, since you're so fixated on the sample size: here they are ( I bet you didn't read the report).

 

 

more than 4 thousand household samples, and more than 21,000 individual sample size seems more than enough for me. That sample size is used to project to a population/household size which covers more than 80% of most regions.

 

The differences in sample sizes can easily be adjusted with a simple variance analysis. Your knowledge in statistics really dissapointed me oodweyne

 

Lastly, the report was prepared by Utz Pape, who holds a Bsc, Msc, and Phd in statistics. But I guess the words of Oodweyne should be heavier

 

[Illyria]

And for reference, here are the projected 2017 Budgets for SL, PL, and the federal gov’t.

 

SL.

https://imgur.com/mVN9TA9

SL 2017 budget.

 

PL.

https://imgur.com/cOyI0OR

PL 2017 budget

 

Federal.

https://imgur.com/kyDcN8z

Federal 2017 budget