Tensions escalate between Turkey and the EU

[Holac]

The "Germanic" tribes of Europe are ganging up on Turkey. It is a ridiculous game.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/11/world/europe/turkey-netherlands-ban-referendum.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Feurope&action=click&contentCollection=europe&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=5&pgtype=sectionfront

[galbeedi]

Times of Israel.

 

BLOGGER Moshe-Mordechai van Zuiden

Moshe-Mordechai van Zuiden

DES survivor born in 1953, to two Holocaust survivors in The Netherlands, and holds a BA in medicine. He taught … [More]

 

The European right-wing extremists have fallen so deeply that they needed to borrow a Jew and a half-blood to lead them!

 

No, this is not like saying – falsely – that Hitler was Jewish – either to discredit the Nazis (if one thinks that Jews are worse than Nazis) or to blame also WW II on the Jews.

 

No, this is not like saying that it should matter in politics who’s a Jew and who’s Asian.

 

But if a person of color who is also a Jew leads a continent to a racist abyss, and he does not hear his internal voice of decency, we should remind him that he’s just as condemnable as any Neo-Nazi; and we should tell the Nazis and Neo-Nazis that he himself is ein Untermensch – subhuman, in Nazi thought – not anything more than the Blacks from Africa and the Muslims from anywhere whom he maligns. (Africa will soon count four billion people who will flood Europe.)

 

Geert Wilder is a Jew. His mother was a full Jewess. If they had been in Europe 80 years ago, his fake-blond hair and his racist talk would not have saved her not Geert from the gas chambers. Nor would his Czechoslovakian wife have made it, who is a Jewess too. But his parents survived in Indonesia.

 

He’s not just a Jew, he’s also a half-blood – yet another embarrassment for racist Europe. But hydrogen peroxide makes his lush thick black Indonesian hair seem blond and so … he’s kosher enough for the Neo-Nazis. He looks and talks like a proud Aryan, and that’s what counts for now.

 

How ridiculous would his hatemongering be if it came from the lips of someone who is clearly a Jew and/or Asian.

 

Unfortunately for proud Jews, he is not a proud Jew. He guides Europe towards a new assault on everyone who is too Semitic or too non-White. When the Dutch parliament recently had to vote for or against kosher slaughter he and his party voted … against. When push came to shove, he was not a friend of the Jews.

 

He claims to be a friend of Israel, but only because he saw in the Jewish State a bulwark against Muslims overrunning Europe. (Well, Syrians did not need to pass through Israel to flee there.) US Neo-Nazis also endorse Trump, although he is for Israel. Apparently, they don’t mind leaders supporting Israel as long is their general policy is to their liking. They probably are mostly annoyed with the Jews around them. Or they assume that Israel can be best dealt with at the end.

 

But maybe I should protect a fellow Jew? In my opinion he has finished deserving the title Jew. Listen to this: Geert Wilders speech @ Koblenz, Germany with English subtitles. Is it just the German that make him sound like Hitler? Or is it the hysterical applause? You might have more objective ears than me. My four Jewish grandparents were all gassed at Auschwitz.

 

Wilders says on this tape: “We politicians are not important. It is not about us. It’s about you, it’s about the voter, it’s about all the people in this room, but also about the country’s millions.” (When Nazis talk about serving the people, they never include Jews, Blacks, etc. as part of the nation.) “Not we, but you are important.”

 

Just guess who said “I myself thank Providence and my Creator not for preserving me—my life consists only of worry and work for my People.” Adolf Hitler, in 1944. Oy vay, when a leader claims to be unimportant and that the only ones who count are his (sic) People. Only leaders full of themselves will make this obvious point, thereby annulling it.

 

Wilders is much worse than President Trump. Trump stands for right-wing US, and his biases are but side-dishes. However, Wilders stands for racism (and nothing else) which is his main dish. When Trump says that he wants to make America great again, that sounds very different from Wilders saying to Germans that we will make Germany great again. Great … again? Very different. And he says it.

 

How ironic that Wilders calls upon Europeans to regain their pride. He’s proud of being a typical European. Except that he isn’t. He’s a Jew and an Indo, more than any other ethnicity. And he will not accept Muslims and Negroes as European, ever. You see how renouncing and lying about one’s own background leads to disastrous behavior? Admitting to his un-Aryan background might do more than making him unwanted in Neo-Nazi circles. It could help him stop being such a bigot.

 

May Wilders become a proud and out Jew and Indo now!

 

 

[galbeedi]

Imagine a mine with dark features whose parents were born in Indonesia , colors his hair blond and want to be Nreo-Nazi. This racist and small time neocon called Wilders wont go far even if he wins. These small nations of Europe could not survive without trade in the Muslim world and other countries of the world. Turkey is too big a country to worry about the Danish or the Dutch.

 

Also, I would like to mention that Erdogan should not have pushed either Germany or the Dutch at this election year. Chancellor Mekel has shown her humanity for the fleeing Syrians last year by accepting a million refugees, and now she is fending of some racist right wing elements that is trying to unseat her. If I ware him I would have waited until the Dutch election in March 15.

 

Yet all these undemocratic moves by Europe is really embarrassment for their values and it shows their weaknesses. The Turkish Nation have over 10 million citizens of Turkish origin continental Europe.

 

500,000 in Holland

500,000 in Britain , mostly Bulgarian Turkish.

3-4,000,000 i Germany

 

Turkish minorities live in former Ottoman territories of Macedonia, Kosovo, Bylgaria, Romania, Sebia, Kosovo, Bosina and western Greece. More Turkic speaking people live in Azerbajan, Krygistan, and central Asian countries. Any way , this is a big nation who will be one of the biggest powers within five years. Erdogan should speak soft and carry a big stick like real powers. I know he is in a lot of pressure and foreign powers are trying to destabilize Turkey by using Kurds and others. If they survive the year of 2017, they will be unstoppable.

 

They are Somalia's biggest ally and friend so we must stand with them.

 

 

 

 

[Dhagax-Tuur]

Geedi, Erdogan cannot wait. The referendum is April and he wants those votes from Turkish dayuusbaro, pardon me.

 

This shows the underlying tension and Weat's dislike of the Islamist AK party in charge of Turkey.

 

I'm sure it would have been different had the current Turkish admin been a pro western atheists/Attaturkists.

 

The followers of the AK party in Europe are chanting Allahu Akbar whenever they come together for a rally. I'm sure that bothers the West. Heck, they would have branded them 'terrorists' if they could.

 

May Allah protect our Muslim Turkish brothers from the dirty tricks of their haters. Aamiin.

[Tallaabo]

Erdugan is turning into a dictator and the European governments have a duty to stop him from acquiring more illegal powers.

I don't know why he has to campaign in Europe and spread his propaganda there when he already has enough supporters in Turkey itself. The European Turks should worry more about their interests in their respective European countries instead of colluding with the crazy man to topple democracy in their former country of origin.

[maakhiri1]

Wait till (if he hasn't already) gets crazy and killing everyone that opposes him, the guy is nothing but a typical dictator in the making, and raising tensions over storm in a tea cup , the issue with Holland is nothing, yes they overreacted abit but have rules about foreign leaders campaigning on their land.

 

The problem is he is taking masses with him, to point all rules and all check and balance ,laws are eliminated, and becoming a powerful dictator.

[Tallaabo]

^ Indeed maakhiri. I don't understand how his supporters can't see his true intentions!! If the masses are supporting all those major constitutional changes in Turkey out of love for Erdogan, what will happen when he is no longer there and the person replacing him turns out to be evil? With all those powers being accumulated in the hands of the president, and with no strong tradition of democracy, Turkey is in danger of turning into another Egypt.

It is also ridiculous to demand Turkish politicians campaign in foreign countries. Every country has a right to control what happens within their borders so the abuses and the un diplomatic behaviour from Erdugan when his plans were stopped by Europe and the absence of Turkish condemnation of Erdugan shows the man has dangerous powers in his country.

[galbeedi]

Tallaabo,

 

You are correct about European nations denying a foreign campaign especially tens thousands of people waving foreign flag withe their country. Also , the rise of right wing populism must be considered . He should not created tensions like this.

 

Having said that these Turks in Europe are not refugees or migrants. Most of them were recruited by European nations looking factory workers in the seventies.

 

The issue of the constitutional change was in the works since AK party was elected. Presidential system is the perfect solution for Turkey. In Italy were Somalis copied their parliamentary system in 1960 is unstable and quarrelsome. From 1945 to 1990 , Italy had almost 40 governments , some did not even last six months.

 

A country like Turkey were democracy and multi party system is fragile , combined with their ethnic minorities and other problems originating from he middle eastern culture and region demands stable and strong presidential system. Further more when minority parties get gridlock and no one is able to form the government, the army usually intervenes to bring stability. In The presidential system, the president will intervene if there is no agreement. The French also have the presidential system and eve though two or three parties may form the government, the president has the power to solved or co-habit with them.

 

Turkey have opened embassies i more than 39 African countries, their economy grew 4 to 7% every year and in Africa , Turkey is reaching out. Trade with Africa was around $7 billion in 2005, this figure surged to $17.5 billion in 2015. They are joining the Shagai counsel, they are opening trade routs in the old silk road. The Turkey is located between Asia and Europe, and all gas pipelines, trade routs and business must go through them. Hence , great powers must have strong political system and unified leadership to build and achieve things. Among the top 250 building companies of the world 47 of them are Turkish.

 

In America today nothing could be done by the governments yet the are thriving-- for now. Look at the heath care issue. They have been debating for thirty years, Obama did move the buck little bit to insure some people, and now Trump want to throw away and start over. AS the richest country in the world they could simply do universal health care for everyone like Canada, but today America debates twenty four hours in the cable news. Imagine rather than powerful president who could move things, if America had a prime minister with coalition government in the parliament. Turkey and others can not afford the American political foot ball.

 

Turkey will be great power just by their location, resource history, hard work and the large educated and nationalist population,. Great powers need strong and stable government. Just like Brazil, China , you need a continues economic policy of more than a decade to achieve big goals.

 

Here in Canada the ruling party was trying to change the Canadian electoral system or what we call: first pass post system, to proportional presentations were everyone got the percentage of the vote which translates votes. After examining the system they decided to keep the winner takes all system for fear of fragmentation and gridlock. . If three or four candidates divide the votes, the one who got the largest vote will be elected , even though it is not the majority vote against others. Look in Israel were they have five or six parties to form the government.

 

It seems we Somalis or people with the middle eastern and African background always find themselves in the opposite extremes on any given issue. Here some of you liberals always look down those who have different way of thinking in terms of governance and democracy. I am one of those who believe there should be a middle ground of pragmatism both in the Turkey and other places where peaceful and democratic Islamic oriented parties exist . So far, the AKP party is following the rules of democracy. Turkey was more democratic under AKP than any other government before .

 

For all these years , especially from 2002 until early 2015, Erdogan never killed one single person in Turkey. Anatolia was destabilized politically and economically by a group of organized sect who were hiding behind Islamic charity and education. They stole university , military, police and judiciary entry exams and enrolled their people inside the government without notice. They falsely accused top military officials for organizing coups and arrested more than 120 colonels and generals. After exhaustive investigations they were all cleared by the Erdoga government .

 

Most of you guys probably did not study or know the history of Islamic sects and movements who manifested themselves both in culture and political power throughout the centuries. The group headed by Fathulla Gullen are called "Baadiniya". In order to achieve their goals they conceal their identity. The military coup of July 15, 2016 was not staged by the military or it's top leaders. It was organized and staged by the Gulen movement who were preparing to the take over of Turkey and many other countries in central Asia. After the coup Mr. Gullen was trying to land in Istanbul and became the great leader just like Khomeini. He had schools in 80 countries in collaboration with probably American intelligence for the purpose acquiring power in future. He was state within state. They infiltrated every where and they were the persecutors, judges and the police. That is why Erdogan and his government is probably paranoid.

 

The heroism shown by the Turkish people should be celebrated by the world. This was the people's power of the 21st century, yet many wanted the reclusive Ayatollah Gullen to succeed, but we Somalis who suffered many years without hope stand with the people of Turkey and we are grateful of his heroic visit to our country during the famine.

 

 

The problem is, Turkey is a wounded tiger these days. The Kenyan in chief, Obama made both Turkey and the people of Syria venerable. He was talking about deposing Assad for five years without arming or helping the Free Syria Army to defeat ISIS and Assad. All they did was arm the Kurd and unleash millions of refugees that threatened Turkey, Europe and other places with their sheer numbers.

 

Obama has threatened the safety of Turkey by doing nothing . " Soomaalidu waxay tidhaahdaa waar ama na dil ama na noolee". At least people will know Trump is going to get you so you prepare, unlike the Kenyan. Finally last August Turkey had enough and invaded northern Syria and did what they should have done five years ago. Their airports, soccer stadiums, night clubs and stations were bombed with hundreds of people dead. The presidential system will bring more stability to the country.

 

The western media should stop demonizing Erdogan who is elected in an election conducted freely and fairly , at the same time , Erdogan should calm down and prepare the next Turkish leader who will make Turkey even greater than him in the future. He should know that after four years, he must relinquish power to the next generation or he will be even greater target for the media and others.

[Holac]

Why does it bother anyone if, I as a tax paying citizen of a country went to a speech given by the foreign minister of my mother's homeland? I should be able to go and see whomever without dogs chasing me.

 

Let us stop the blind regurgitation of Western media narratives and start thinking for a minute. Somaliland / Somalia ministers visit the US every year and thousands come out waving Somali/Somaliland flags. They are not a threat to anyone. They party, see friends, enjoy the music and go home.

 

It is ridiculous to play fascist games with the emotions of millions of people in the name of "security threat". What security threat? I have never heard of a single terrorist of Turkish origin blowing things up in Europe, and there is quite a lot of Turks in Europe.

 

Europe was trying to alter the results of the referendum and I am afraid the fascists handed Erdogan the win he was desperate to get.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dhagax-Tuur]

Beautifully put, Holac. Turks have campaigned in the EU before, why is it different this time?

[Peace Action]

Galbeedi even though I agree with you on some points you should not be calling Obama, Kenyan just because he is carrying policies that favor the US and limit its involvement in the middle east after the catastrophic failure of Iraqi invasion. The right wing smear campaign about Obama being born in Kenya was meant to de-legitimize President Obama and you should not be repeating this false statement that has become the rant of the racist. As Somalis say dameer aan fuushanahay maxay dhusadiisu iga dhibay ( the fart of a donkey I am riding does not bother)

 

The US did what was in its own best interest, the question is did Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar did what was in the best interest of their people and the region. The answer is no. What Turkey is doing could have been done at the beginning of the Syrian conflict and in conjunction with other Arab countries. Now it may be too little, too late after Assad and Russia success in killing at least 500,000 syrians and making half the population refugees.

 

The question is why Arab and Muslim countries do not put their houses in order and instead ask outside powers to help and eventually make the problem worse.

 

I agree Turks are right to complain about European double standard when it comes to freedom of expression and freedom of assembly.

[galbeedi]

I think Holac put it correctly. The media narrative get us blind sided even me. My objection was that since the racist were using this Turkish campaign to further their xenophobic agenda, I thought , it might have been better to wait after election.

 

Any way the corrupt and racist masks of the Eurepean countries are coming off openly as we speak. Today , the EU court have decided that employees are free to fire and discriminate Muslim women wearing Hijaab. Can you imagine a court trying to discriminate what kind of clothing a person is wearing. This is the land were every thing and any thing is allowed except Muslim rights. It looks Turkey and Erdogan just helped us see who they really are. We should all remember that most of the crimes of 20th century was committed by European countries .

 

Today Erdogan talked about the Sreberica massacre and said "“We know the Netherlands and the Dutch from the Srebrenica massacre. We know how rotten their character is from their massacre of 8,000 Bosnians there.”

 

here is the description of that massacre:

 

"What happened was the worst massacre since world war two. 8,000 innocent people were machine gunned, And in that fleeting instant, between seeing the guns trained on them and being cut down, they realized the terrible truth.

In an act of barely believable savagery, the soldiers fired on the defenseless men with every available weapon.

 

Grenades and bazookas were even used, filling the room with acrid black smoke. With wounded men writhing and groaning, and blood oozing over the straw, it was like a vision from hell"

 

"Here is what the western media said about the 400 coward Dutch peace keepers,I

 

"ts besieged residents were supposedly under the protection of a UN peace-keeping force, comprising of 400 Dutch troops. With their World War II weaponry and lack of strong leadership, the Dutch were hopelessly ill-equipped to perform this task. They were also hidebound by ludicrous rules of engagement which made them powerless to fend off the Serbs"

The Dutch are A NATO member with he latest weapons yet that is how the western media was describing while they were watching the massacre.

 

No one persecuted them. The so called Haig criminal court is in Dutch territory. If Erdogan ever said any truth about something this is the truth. Finally someone is telling openly the evils did by Europe as late as 1995. Also, the Dutch are in general people of evil and sick character. The Boers who slaved and made apartheid in South Africa for eighty years were Dutch origin. No wonder.

 

Peace Action,

 

you are correct. Rather than wait Obama or anyone else , Turkey should have cleaned their back yard five years ago. When it's comes to Saudis and the Gulf, I do not expect from them any thing good.

 

My only beef with Obama was not about his non intervention policies ,but the lies and the constant destabilization of African and middle eastern countries through proxies and drones. I am anti Trump and for that reason I should live Obama alone for now.