Abdiweli rejected Qoslaye's plan. He is leaving Mogadishu.

[xabad]

<cite>

@Tillamook

said:</cite>

...and so you have the audacity to challenge the all concurring hero of SOL, Señor Tillamook ? ?

 

Xabad, the record is out there for all to see that you support and prefer the 4.5 travesty because you fear the indomitable D-Block would otherwise assume their rightful pedestal over the Laangaab nimcompoops who support the 4.5 nonsense.

 

Need I say more...?

 

See, its all a zero sum game with you.

 

Domination, pedestal, right place, laangaabnimo , waa maxay waxaan ? Nin caqli leh aan kuu haystay. Ileen your just a knuckle dragging e-mooryaan. We are past this nonsense, son, it doesn't excite us, besides nobody will respect you more or think your tough cause your beating and taunting on a fellow skinny. The world doesn't care. I don't even enjoy fighting with black people let alone other Somalis.

 

What have we learned from the civil war and the last 30 years, if you bloviating like this ? Dib isugu noqo, son.

 

Don't make assumption about my clan, you'd be surprised if i reveal my clan.

 

Look in the mirror Tillamook.

 

Godspeed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[xabad]

<cite>

@Asad Ahmed

said:</cite>

This is simple,Those who are advocating for District/degaan Based should Start from Their Degaans,they have agreed to share power on clan lines in their districts and failed to have distrcit based so why push into us this task when somalia doesnt have the resources/time to enforce such travesty system.4.5 is not perfect but atleast it is working,4.5 will be the dominant theme in the next years to come.

 

Fair point.

[Tillamook]

^

Let's not encourage animal cruelty, shall we!

 

 

 

<cite>

@xabad

said:</cite>

See, its all a zero sum game with you.

 

Domination, pedestal, right place, laangaabnimo , waa maxay waxaan

? Nin caqli leh aan kuu haystay. Ileen your just a knuckle dragging e-mooryaan. We are past this nonsense, son, it doesn't excite us, besides nobody will respect you more or think your tough cause your beating and taunting on a fellow skinny. The world doesn't care. I don't even enjoy fighting with black people let alone other Somalis.

 

What have we learned from the civil war and the last 30 years, if you bloviating like this ? Dib isugu noqo, son.

 

Don't make assumption about my clan, you'd be surprised if i reveal my clan.

 

Look in the mirror Tillamook.

 

Godspeed.

 

 

Hehehe, Godspeed from a flaming atheist, eh? Oh, the irony...?

 

First of all, if you gonna hit the reply button, I urge you to actually provide a cogent rebuttal to what was said before, instead of putting down the first drivel the sprouts out of your mind.

 

If you'd paid any attention to what I wrote earlier in this thread, then you'd know the only way to move from the clan based zero-sum politics in Somalia, is to allow the nation to form other coalitions based on regions, provinces and districts. Ergo, your fear of the D-block's dominance will be greatly reduced because people will instead be forced to make political alliances based on the geographies and territories they live and belong to, instead of the bloodline they might share with others-- no matter how sacrosanct it maybe(only in the case of the D-Block, of course ?)

 

Now, once again that was my argument and so if you have a better argument as to why you believe the 4.5 travesty will better provide a more equitable and fair democracy, then by all means... Let's have it!

 

P.S

As to me making assumptions about the Somali clan you formerly belonged to, I wouldn't give it the time of day. And besides, everyone knows that once one becomes an atheist and renounces the Tawheed, then one has rescinded his somalihood and therefore cannot belong to any Somali clan or family.

For to be a Somali, my dear mooncalf, is first and foremost to believe in the one true God.

[Haatu]

Somalis need a life-long ruler (a dictator if you will). Preferably one from my jilib.

[Tillamook]

^

Mudane Haatu Wangai, ma nooshahay wali? ?

 

Salaan sare sxb!

[xabad]

<cite>

@Tillamook

said:</cite>

 

If you'd paid any attention to what I wrote earlier in this thread, then you'd know the only way to move from the clan based zero-sum politics in Somalia, is to allow the nation to form other coalitions based on regions, provinces and districts. Ergo, your fear of the D-block's dominance will be greatly reduced because people will instead be forced to make political alliances based on the geographies and territories they live and belong to, instead of the bloodline they might share with others-- no matter how sacrosanct it maybe(only in the case of the D-Block, of course ?)

 

Wrong, it's worse than the 4.5 system.

 

At least with 4.5 the major qabiils have equal vote, the alternative favors those with larger land mass and hence more degmo. you have no problem with that, PL are enthusiastic for this, but some of us are fair minded and have a long term view as to how end the hostilities in the Somali peninsula.

The boffins can sit down and come with a better system than this 4.5 system i am sure, but if there no alternative i say keep it.

 

<cite>

@Tillamook

said:</cite>

 

P.S

As to me making assumptions about the Somali clan you formerly belonged to, I wouldn't give it the time of day. And besides, everyone knows that once one becomes an atheist and renounces the Tawheed, then one has rescinded his somalihood and therefore cannot belong to any Somali clan or family.

For to be a Somali, my dear mooncalf, is first and foremost to believe in the one true God.

 

So deen and clan chauvinism go like hand and glove, somaha Tillamook.

 

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

 

 

 

[Che -Guevara]

Something is lost in this 4.5 vs degmo thing. That something is accountability. Somalis won't make any progress as long as they don't hold their politicians, traditional leaders and wadaado accountable.

 

Instead of building on institutions, we now have 7 men with IC backers deciding the future of 15 million people.

 

This Government was supposed to lay the foundations for a better, more inclusive government. Instead, it deliberately ham-stringed Somalia just so few politicians can milk the country. The election commission, border commission and constitutional were all supposed to be setup in the first two years. Instead of asking about these real issues, we are busy with 4.5.

 

Any agreement between Somalis is not worth the paper it's written. As long as we side with men instead demanding a proper functional state, we will continue to have this conversation.

 

The displaced mother in Xamar, Bosaso, and Hargeisa camps don't care who is in power as long as they have institutions that ensure their safety and livelihood.

 

So are the half million Somalis in Dadab, the quarter of million in war torn Yemen and Amoud graduates dying on the high seas.

 

We talk about this block and that. Does anyone really think Xasan Sheikh cares about H-Block, does anyone think Sharif Xasan cares about R-Block, and does anyone think y Madobe and Gas really care about D-block? Let's be serious people. Even if these men care about their people what can they do without institutions.

 

Whatever Government comes next, Somalis need to make sure the Government respects and implements what was agreed upon.

 

And reer hebel folks, now that you have "federal state", make your demand the democratization of these states. Otherwise, they will all be mini Sheikh Hassan. Just look at what's brewing in Jubba, Galmudug and the Hiiran/Shabelle. And Puntland will fall within this category if Abdiwali does start democratization of decision making and power sharing.

 

Somalis need accountability and genuine reconciliation. I simply don't see these men delivering that.

 

And as for the parliament, who are they accountable to? A

[Tillamook]

<cite>

@xabad

said:</cite>

Wrong, it's worse than the 4.5 system.

 

At least with 4.5 the major qabiils have equal vote, the alternative favors those with larger land mass and hence more degmo. you have no problem with that, PL are enthusiastic for this, but some of us are fair minded and have a long term view as to how end the hostilities in the Somali peninsula.

The boffins can sit down and come with a better system than this 4.5 system i am sure, but if there no alternative i say keep it.

 

 

 

So deen and clan chauvinism go like hand and glove, somaha Tillamook.

 

Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

 

The silly suspicions of an inconsequential non-entity such as yourself, my dear boy, is irrelevant in this case.

 

The 4.5 travesty has been tried and tested for the past 16 years and to date, we are yet to have a genuine and legitimate government that has the full support of the people of Somalia.

 

Che speaks of the government's lack of accountability; and it's precisely because of the 4.5 travesty that it is so and that we still have a bunch of hapless individuals under UN protection without the legitimacy of people calling themselves the government of Somalia.

 

We believe, if MPs and senators are elected by the provinces and districts of Somalia respectively , then these individuals would be accountable to their constituencies--just as other democracies in the rest of the world.

 

Marka, Xabaddow, ha ii caroonin sidii dhoocil la fara xumeeyeyee... ee afaaraha Soomaaliya ama si daacad ah u abaar, ama lugaha isku duwo marka aan gollaha joogo!

[galbeedi]

Tillamook waan ku salaamay, We know you are a tough guy to debate, but before I state my case on the issue federalism, let me correct that a " dhoocil" is a demeaning word for a girl, " faraxumayn or rape is a crime" so please clean up your post and respect women.

 

You are correct the idea behind Somali federalism is to take the steam off from clan hegemony and centralized dictatorship. Also the unending Mogadishu quagmire called people in the provinces to move on and organize their lives. While the national capital is important, the destiny of the Somali people can not be tied forever to the instability of Xamar.

 

I live in a federal state, and while regional , cultural and other aspects of the regions make them unique, the biggest advantage is delivering service to citizens. health care , education, road ways , policing and other social services. I do not intend to compare this provinces to Somali regions, but the biggest wisdom is " you do not have to re-invent wheels".

 

As our friend Che mentioned this government have not moved the issue for the last 31/2 years. There were technical issues that could have been moved by the parliament or other experts. They waited until the last minute without ant good alternative to 4.5.

 

The important thing is you can not replace bad system with another unproven complicated system just before the deadline. four years ago a rushed road map produced a fragile and dysfunctional constitution after it was approved by Puntland, Galmudug and the Transitional federal government. Now how can the future of districting and election could be left to new states who are not accountable to their citizens , while some of them do not even have basic government structure.

 

You keep talking about certain clans getting the upper hand if districting is implemented. I can assure if real census is taken, there will be a lot of surprises. I am sure many Somalis will never accept justice and accountability.

 

Having said that functioning states like Puntland, while implementing the 4.5 formula, they must select and send their representatives from puntland.

 

I had seen little glimpse of the so called districts formula few weeks ago. They said the 16 Mogadishu districts will each have 3 members with the Total of 48. The proponents also claim that those 48 will be given to certain clans. There were no difference from booming towns who have hundred of thousand of population to the small districts with leas than 10,000. How can you compare Boosaaso with Dhuusamareeb, or Boorama with Qardho. Folks we do not need to jump from dysfunctional system to another.

 

This so called new system will undermined future elections and will become another 4.5 for the next decade, while insecurity and other issues may persist and deny people the right to vote.

 

If we have to chose , let us choose real democracy and the direct representation of the people, Any thing lass than that would be the undermining of the peoples trust.

[Tillamook]

^

Boowe, aa kula tahay!