somalia on news (again)

[bosmanoglu]

ok before getting mud all over me, I should say RADIKAL is a very respectable newpaper and not pro-government

 

News piece is about Somalia Army base to be built close to Moghadishu. It says that 20 Turkish Army Builders are now overseeing construction which is targeted to be finished end of summer. About size newspaper says base will be "in extreme scale" in which 10.000 service men will be trained. It will be much greater than Katar training base of Turkish Army.

 

Final stage 200 Turkish officers will be assigned as trainers (along with a security contingent)

 

http://www.radikal.com.tr/turkiye/somaliye-turk-askeri-egitim-ussu-1498998/

[xabad]

"Turkey has launched an investigation into academics who signed a petition criticising the military’s crackdown on Kurdish rebels in the south-east that angered President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan.

 

More than 1,200 academics from 90 Turkish universities calling themselves “Academicians for Peace”, as well as foreign scholars, signed the petition last week calling for an end to the months-long violence.

 

Entitled “We won’t be a party to this crime”, the petition urged Ankara to “abandon its deliberate massacre and deportation of Kurdish and other peoples in the region”.

 

It was signed by dozens of foreign luminaries and intellectuals, among them the US academic Noam Chomsky and the Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Žižek.

 

Istanbul prosecutors launched the investigation, with the Turkish academics facing accusations ranging from “terrorist propaganda” and “inciting people to hatred, violence and breaking the law” to “insulting Turkish institutions and the Turkish Republic,” the official Anatolia news agency said"

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/14/turkish-prosecutors-investigate-academics-criticised-erdogan-petition

 

Bosmanoglu, what is your opinion on this ?

 

Why do Turkish prosecutors scurry like cockroaches to fulfill this madman's vendettas against everyone that says something against him. Where is the judicial independence ?...does he want to imprison everyone who criticizes him, they won't be room if he keeps this up, even Putin doesn't go as far.

[bosmanoglu]

its a scare tactic from erdogan... his suporters claim that those hundreds of intellectuals took an order from PKK terrorist group and publish that declaration accordingly. Every soul in Turkiye knows that it is a fat lie. Yet it is enough reason for prosecutors to question these people. Nothing will come out of this obviously, but as I said, he wants to scare these people.

 

Erdogan is known to be a "pinchy" person, pushing buttons of opposition that creates great upheaval. He creates polarization and harvests political gain out of these reactions and confrontations. We got used to it in years.

 

Prosecutors report to Ministry of Justice, so they jump on what politicians say. Judges on the otherhand doesn't report to them. They Report only to High Court of Judges (which he messes with and puts psychological pressure on judges at times )

 

Which is unrelated to my post.

[xabad]

<cite>

@Bosmanoglu

said:</cite>

its a scare tactic from erdogan... his suporters claim that those hundreds of intellectuals took an order from PKK terrorist group and publish that declaration accordingly. Every soul in Turkiye knows that it is a fat lie. Yet it is enough reason for prosecutors to question these people. Nothing will come out of this obviously, but as I said, he wants to scare these people.

 

Erdogan is known to be a "pinchy" person, pushing buttons of opposition that creates great upheaval. He creates polarization and harvests political gain out of these reactions and confrontations. We got used to it in years.

 

Prosecutors report to Ministry of Justice, so they jump on what politicians say. Judges on the otherhand doesn't report to them. They Report only to High Court of Judges (which he messes with and puts psychological pressure on judges at times

)

 

Which is unrelated to my post.

 

He is pinchy indeed, remember when he injured a little boy with this fingernails and the father sued, he is a petty thug who always has this brooding countenance about him

 

Bosmanoglu, there are reports NATO is preparing to kick out Turkey. what do you know about that ?

 

The army base being built won't be helpful or bring peace because there is no national army, all the soldiers are from one clan. Like Iraq divided between Sunnis, Shias and Kurds, if you arm the central government your arming the Shias effectively, its the same case in Somalia. its very divided country, and any help that is no reciprocated across the different stakeholders will only increase antagonism and make Turkey a partisan supporter.

[bosmanoglu]

First, you know little about how NATO works. This organization is beyond political and beyond military. It is deep into industries and economies as well as "deterrence". Turkiye is manufacturing dutch air defence, most of american F35 fighters, french helicopters critical parts, spanish ships backbones etc etc. The tiniest defence industry agreement is 20 year long like Sikorsky helicopter, pratt whitney engines, f16 fighters etc etc. Plus Turkiye maintains second largest nato army,navy and airforce, first in Europe. We have 80 nuclear missiles on our soil 40 of being ours, 40 US's which is backbone of NATO's nuclear deterrence. We host nato radar bases that covers romania till poland without which both countries is vulnerable to missile attack. So on so forth.

 

So whoever thinks Turkiye will be "kicked out" from NATO is a misinformed person. It would be like all the western block shooting to their own heads. Plus, there are historical reasons of Turkiye's involvement, 5000 martyrs left in Korea, 70 year long cold war defence etc etc.

 

Plus demographics is key factor. On a mobilization, we can round up 25 million strong army all under 30 years of age. Very few countries in the world is demographically capable of that.

 

Yesterday I watched a seminar from a brit university on Central Asian politics. On that lecturer said, Russia's export item is "corruption". An american has said years ago that Turkish export item is "military and military discipline". These are few words coming from pros that express nation's political, social, economic cultures, hundreds of books in one word.

 

Thats why our relations with Europe is a love&hate relationship. They dont want us because we are muslims but they cant do it without us.

[bosmanoglu]

I forgot to mention about tribal divide...

 

As I explained many times on my posts, our national policy is "state building" as well as "nation building". There is no discrimination on Turkish investments, scholarships, policies on tribal base. We have many PL,SL and JL students in our country. On Turkish schools and oprhanages there are kids from all tribes.

 

Turkiye is mediating diplomatically between federal states. There is much progress on this respect. As far as I know, poorly equipped and trained SL militia will receive these military trainings as well which was agreed. JL already committed to be a part of Somalia national army. etc etc...

 

I think it will come to point that all Somali elements will realize the critical aspect of "strong defence" and will trancend these tribalism. Economy also dictates that. Historical hostilities dictates that. Somali elements in Kenya, Ethiopia dictate that. Drooling western powers, chinese, araps dictate that, your maritime interests dictates that, so and so forth.

 

There are much factors that unites all the tribes than it divides. You simply need to change your perspective.

[xabad]

<cite>

@Bosmanoglu

said:</cite>

First, you know little about how NATO works. This organization is beyond political and beyond military. It is deep into industries and economies as well as "deterrence". Turkiye is manufacturing dutch air defence, most of american F35 fighters, french helicopters critical parts, spanish ships backbones etc etc. The tiniest defence industry agreement is 20 year long like Sikorsky helicopter, pratt whitney engines, f16 fighters etc etc. Plus Turkiye maintains second largest nato army,navy and airforce, first in Europe. We have 80 nuclear missiles on our soil 40 of being ours, 40 US's which is backbone of NATO's nuclear deterrence. We host nato radar bases that covers romania till poland without which both countries is vulnerable to missile attack. So on so forth.

 

So whoever thinks Turkiye will be "kicked out" from NATO is a misinformed person. It would be like all the western block shooting to their own heads. Plus, there are historical reasons of Turkiye's involvement, 5000 martyrs left in Korea, 70 year long cold war defence etc etc.

 

Plus demographics is key factor. On a mobilization, we can round up 25 million strong army all under 30 years of age. Very few countries in the world is demographically capable of that.

 

Yesterday I watched a seminar from a brit university on Central Asian politics. On that lecturer said, Russia's export item is "corruption". An american has said years ago that Turkish export item is "military and military discipline". These are few words coming from pros that express nation's political, social, economic cultures, hundreds of books in one word.

 

Thats why our relations with Europe is a love&hate relationship. They dont want us because we are muslims but they cant do it without us.

 

I know Turkey part manufactures relatively low tech military hardware for NATO member states, including the F 35, but still isn't in the big leagues of say France, Britain, Germany or even Sweden. Expulsion will not be overnight, rather a deliberate drawn out disengagement and downgrading of relations. I don't believe NATO upper echelon entrusts Turkey with critical intelligence at this point. History won't count for nothing, when Turks are busy arming terrorists in Syria and become a liability for the alliance in general.

 

Turkey has an impressive military on paper, but so does North Korea and Pakistan, the important criteria is technological edge, Turkiye is lagging behind in this regard. Considering they wanted to procure Chinese missile defense last year - another source of friction with NATO, by the way - is clear they are behind. Power lies not in just crude manpower and hardware.

 

Turkiye is still small kebab, evidence its failure in Syria.

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@Bosmanoglu

said:</cite>

I forgot to mention about tribal divide...

 

As I explained many times on my posts, our national policy is "state building" as well as "nation building". There is no discrimination on Turkish investments, scholarships, policies on tribal base. We have many PL,SL and JL students in our country. On Turkish schools and oprhanages there are kids from all tribes.

 

Turkiye is mediating diplomatically between federal states. There is much progress on this respect. As far as I know, poorly equipped and trained SL militia will receive these military trainings as well which was agreed. JL already committed to be a part of Somalia national army. etc etc...

Your statements could not be farther from the truth. I don't know where you are getting your information from Mr Bosmanoglu but Turkish aid outside Mogadishu is next to non-existant. Although the people of Somaliland will always be grateful to those who help them no matter how small such assistance is, Turkey is not in the minds of the people in SL when it comes to aid. I go to SL all the time and I know what I am talking about. For Somaliland, the Europeans and Americans are more important and trusted partners than the Turks. The only thing the people of Somaliland knew about Turkish involvement in our country were those useless mediation talks between SL and Somalia which were hosted by the Turkish government and which were abandoned when the Mogadishu government made a mockery of it.

[Allyourbase]

Kan turkish propagandada waddaana goormuu meesha soo galay?

 

Dude I sure hope you're getting paid for this shit

[bosmanoglu]

<cite>

@Allyourbase

said:</cite>

Kan turkish propagandada waddaana goormuu meesha soo galay?

 

Dude I sure hope you're getting paid for this shit

 

well, I am not "dude!" first of all. A bit old and well educated for not to be called with this title.

 

Second I am a private citizen of political science background who have interest on many regional political developments. If you'd not been lazy to read my earlier posts, I have explained it many times.

[bosmanoglu]

<cite>

@Tallaabo

said:</cite>

Your statements could not be farther from the truth. I don't know where you are getting your information from Mr Bosmanoglu but Turkish aid outside Mogadishu is next to non-existant. Although the people of Somaliland will always be grateful to those who help them no matter how small such assistance is, Turkey is not in the minds of the people in SL when it comes to aid. I go to SL all the time and I know what I am talking about. For Somaliland, the Europeans and Americans are more important and trusted partners than the Turks. The only thing the people of Somaliland knew about Turkish involvement in our country were those useless mediation talks between SL and Somalia which were hosted by the Turkish government and which were abandoned when the Mogadishu government made a mockery of it.

 

Yes, I admit that my information cannot be upto date like you, having experience on location. I generally read academic and news articles about politics of Somalia wherever is available.

 

As I pointed out, "as far as I know" in my post. Information I have gathered was from Turkish sources about PL&SL mediation. After those joint talks, SL delegations came to Turkiye also. There was a framework agreement on aid and development with SL, security contribution against terrorism in Somalia was among them.

 

And about presence/weight of Turkiye in SL, you may be right about imbalance due to priorites set by Turkish Government (which I explained in detail before). But I know for a fact that we support Turkish school, we have a medical assistance/training program for SL and also we maintain a chief-consulate in SL. It is not that we do nothing, but when it comes to Somalia in general, priorities are set according to urgencies with limited resources.

 

It is understandable that you see and perceive US or UK because of your anglosaxon heritage. But you should also see the difference between our approach and theirs. For example, Turkish aid priority would not be speed boats to chase pirates, instead it would be water infrastructure for Hargeisa.

[bosmanoglu]

<cite>

@xabad

said:</cite>

I know Turkey part manufactures relatively low tech military hardware for NATO member states, including the F 35, but still isn't in the big leagues of say France, Britain, Germany or even Sweden. Expulsion will not be overnight, rather a deliberate drawn out disengagement and downgrading of relations. I don't believe NATO upper echelon entrusts Turkey with critical intelligence at this point. History won't count for nothing, when Turks are busy arming terrorists in Syria and become a liability for the alliance in general.

 

Turkey has an impressive military on paper, but so does North Korea and Pakistan, the important criteria is technological edge, Turkiye is lagging behind in this regard. Considering they wanted to procure Chinese missile defense last year - another source of friction with NATO, by the way - is clear they are behind. Power lies not in just crude manpower and hardware.

 

Turkiye is still small kebab, evidence its failure in Syria.

 

Well, you continue to amaze me with your lack information and your determination to broadcast it.

 

About your lack of info on industry and technology market, Thales buys all radar subsytems from Aselsan my dear. That should be enough for you.

 

I would like to invite you to reality on NATO issue. I have tried to explain you why it is impossible to dismiss a member of NATO because of interdependency of years but it seems it had no effect on you. When I was serving, I have served in a NATO army and participated to joint exercises, did you? In my civilian life, I have participated in many NATO seminars and conferences. Did you? There are many Turkish officers (colonels, generals) assigned in bases in US, Italy, Brussels, Afganistan etc. effectively commanding missions right at this moment. I don't have any impression that they are packing their bags to be deported in coming, lets say 50 years. There was a Turkish general commanding US soldiers in Somalia in 1993, do you have knowledge of that?

 

And your Syria allegations are bit boring. Within last weeks, we had Sultanahmet bombing by Daesh, yesterday a school was hit by mortar and a schoolgirl killed in border town. Our artillery send 500 shells killing 80 daesh members in response. (US defence spokesperson was jumpig up and down with joy, marvellous operation just marvelous, yeayyy) Our troops in Iraq engaged daesh just recently killing 18 of them. And yet you still amaze me by insisting on our support to daesh blah blah. Facts contradict to this awkward dreamworld that you obtained from ostrich british media.

[Che -Guevara]

How about big Qatar training camp?

 

What's ultimate goal of the Turks? There's no such as free meal.

[xabad]

<cite>

@Bosmanoglu

said:</cite>

And your Syria allegations are bit boring. Within last weeks, we had Sultanahmet bombing by Daesh, yesterday a school was hit by mortar and a schoolgirl killed in border town. Our artillery send 500 shells killing 80 daesh members in response. (US defence spokesperson was jumpig up and down with joy, marvellous operation just marvelous, yeayyy) Our troops in Iraq engaged daesh just recently killing 18 of them. And yet you still amaze me by insisting on our support to daesh blah blah. Facts contradict to this awkward dreamworld that you obtained from ostrich british media.

 

Bosmanoglu,

 

Journalists Erdem Gul and Can Dundar of Cumhuriyet were imprisoned after exposing Turkish intelligence services sending weapons and ammunition to Islamist rebels fighting the Syrian regime.

 

Please answer that

 

 

[bosmanoglu]

<cite>

@xabad

said:</cite>

Bosmanoglu,

 

Journalists Erdem Gul and Can Dundar of Cumhuriyet were imprisoned after exposing Turkish intelligence services sending weapons and ammunition to Islamist rebels fighting the Syrian regime.

 

Please answer that

 

yes.. all syrians are exactly same, from same factory!... let me give you some history tips..

 

Syria is exactly an analogy of Turkiye.. Both states are formed by old ottoman elite of Young Turks. In Syria case, arap elements from ottoman parliament formed Syria. Both states undergone modern state building proceses of secular, democratic structure. Until Asad family fell into baasism and sectarian rule of opperation, it was exactly what Turkiye is.

 

Having said that, Syria has a considerable Turkmen population. Those Turkmen are exactly from "kayi" tribe that established Ottoman dynasty and has historical significance for Turkiye. Some of these Turkmens are shia, most sunni. There are kurds, in same split. Turkmens and Kurds live in joint villages and towns that exist on both Turkiye and Syria. For example a Turkish citizen wakes up in the morning in Turkish side of the town and goes to farm his field in Syrian part of town, or vise versa.

 

Apart from these native elements, there are selefi butchers wandering around along with lebanese hizbullah that are hired butchers for Asad government. In a very small area of Syria, which is at mortar-artillery distance to Turkish towns, there are crowds of Iranian revolutionary guards, russian troops, shia arabs (called alevites there), caucassian cihadist boneheads and also some durzi cristians, asyyrians, yezidis etc etc.

 

Those Turkmens, Arabs and Kurds living in north of Aleppo (halep) are more Turkish than Syrians economically, historically and culturally and our government sees them as such. When these people (not imported selefis, hizbullahs, iranians etc) are attacked daily with barrel bombs and heavy artillery, millions flock to Turkish border walking kms long death routes with elders and children at their backs, noone could expect Turkish government to be silent about it. Those common elements, had received, are receiving and will receive full support from Turkish government for their survival.

 

That incident you have mentioned has happened by Gulen Tarikat (which everyone knows to be a part of intelligence organization of some of our allies) when they started an all-out political war with ruling political party. They intercepted a Turkish intelligence convoy that were carrying basically ammunition (not weapons) to Turkmen and FSA militia. Later those so-called tarikat guys who took part in (prosecutor and others) are all judged and convicted for serving foreign powers' interests.

 

We are not the only one to do this, Iranians, Russians, Americans and Germans are doing this regularly. They provide arms and ammunition to players that they feel close to. PKK uses latest Panzerfaust launchers now for example, donated from Germany, as if they are interested in killing daesh with those. Pkk terorists instead are using them to kill Turkish teachers, medics, policemen, soldiers etc within Turkiye's borders.

 

All of these activities are criminal according to International law, including ours by the way. You cant send weapons and arsenal to a war zone under sanctions. So before judging our actions which have merit to support real moderate natives of region, you should think of American, German, Russian, Iranian weapons that are used by daesh, army of islam, nusra, hizbullah and psychopats alike. check daesh videos and see what vehicles they are using and ask where they might come from.

 

I guess I did my duty enough for the night to educate you with world realities....