Somalia, Turks, Conspiracies and Future

[Naxar Nugaaleed]

The guy took someone to court for defamation and to you that indicates dictatorship. What kind of logic is that.

[xabad]

<cite>

@Naxar Nugaaleed

said:</cite>

The guy took someone to court for defamation and to you that indicates dictatorship. What kind of logic is that.

 

Satire of leaders is no defamation chump. Obama and other heads of state routinely get worse treatment than this. Heck even Uhuru Kenyatta is lampooned beyond this and you never hear him take anyone to court. You haven't been following Turkey closely i guess. He cited Hitler as an example for his government recently, they was huge furor.

 

His son Bilal, is involved in trading oil with Daish.

[bosmanoglu]

wow... mr xabad... I think your anti-erdogan feelings has made you turn deaf of what I said and discussed here. As I said, I didn't vote once to Erdogan in my life. But you put me somehow in erdogan camp and according to you all turks support daesh... Well, I have a breaking news, Turkiye is not all about Erdogan. We have around 80 million different heads with different ideas.

 

your arguements are all coming from Russian jargon... I guess from your comfortable standpoint you are not aware of what happened in Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine, Syria and baltics. (muslim people are disappering from streets and turning up in morgues in crimea. it could be an interesting topic to investigate) Propoganda wars, cyber attacks, electronic warfare so on an so forth... From where I stand, whole world seemed alarmed and getting ready for Russian agression. And yet, you talk like a true moskvich...

 

And as for your concerns about Turkiye, please rest assured there is a strong civil society here. What erdogan or supporters do, there is an equal and balancing response. Even tough I am affected directly from government politics right here in Turkiye, I lack this deep hatred and reaction to them somehow. May be something is wrong with me and many more Turkish citizens. I prefer talking and writing and discussing to change things for the better in next elections. We call this democracy. It is a fun exercise which I could recommend.

 

[Illyria]

Bosmanoglu,

Are you sure you are a genuine Turk? I ask 'cos you must be the first English speaking Turk I have come into contact in a long time, barring an old mate from university, including inhabitants of North London. Plus your disposition, approach, and general predilection to politics is highly UnTurkish. Am I paranoid?

[bosmanoglu]

Hi Illyria... you made my night yes, I am genuinely %100 Turkish, born and raised we come in all shapes, types and dispositions.

[Illyria]

Well then, I am glad so long as you are not an imposter. tell you what, I toured Turkey in the summer of 2015 from Taqsim Maydani square to Antalya to Marmaris to Euphesus to the recently finished underwater rail system built by Japan to Instanbul to Ankara, and come back with greater respect for its culture, history, cuisine, and politics.

 

Bosphorus rail tunnel is a modern marvel.

 

I must say I admire Erdogan along with Ataturk for what they have done for modern Turkey.

 

I am yet to see any Muslim country including Saudia with as many mosques and learning institutions in its major cities as Turkey.

 

Harika elalem ve ülke.

[Illyria]

Xabad,

Conservative muslim culture deeply rooted in venerable morality and decency in conduct and ethos is no comparison to the decadency of the more socially liberal, if mature western cultures. nevertheless, not so long ago, in the western world, someone would be hung for speaking ill of, or speaking truth to power. let us not be hasty. else, Aesop's famous fable of the Lion and the Antelope will come to pass.

[galbeedi]

Illyria, that is great. That must have been a great vacation . I am planning to make a visit to Turkey with my wife in the future. It will be a delightful to see a modern Muslim country with culture and technology. I want to witness how our faith is more of substance than style. Today all we see is white Khamiis and big bear, which is the legacy of Wahabism.

 

Bosmanoglu, please do not worry about Xabad. He is a great debater, but he lacks one big basic thing. He is agnostic which means he doesn't understand the brotherhood between Turkey and Somalia. He may not gain any material or spiritual benefit between two faithful friends. He is probably one of those Somalis who reached a safe developed country and is annoyed by the constant bad news following him in the diaspora about Somalis back home who are struggling to raise their head. Today's Somalia does need help.

 

He may reside in Britain, but he doesn't understand the age old saying of God, king and country.

 

Finally, Xabad, Please do not compare the British to other systems, because they are a head of everyone in terms of law and governance. That is why their parliament is called the mother of all parliaments, The crowded benches and on your face debates between the government and opposition.

 

Where ever they went ,the British created law and order, constitution and the concept of citizenship. Canada, USA, Australia, New Zealand and many Caribbean nation are the result of British colony. Truth be told, we are luck to live under British system. Imagine Latin America or Mexico.

 

 

[bosmanoglu]

I am glad that you have enjoyed your stay in Turkiye... Yes, there are national-geographic-scale projects happening these days.

 

About mosques and related medrese, imaret etc. We have many of them because of vakf tradition. Every Ottoman royalty (man or woman) or every pasha or rich person built one in their name. So there was competion to built the most beautiful biggest most interesting one. When they built a mosque, it was a complex including a school, kitchen for poor, even birdhouse etc. Also when you built such complex, they had to built shops, villas, hotels as vakf, so that with rent of these properties complex could run. I like such aspects of our history.

 

For about conservatism and decency, I have a comment to share. There is a very famous speech of Kazakh president Nazarbayev. He adresses to a crowd of students, some girls wear headscarf most dont. They ask him about what he thinks about black dress and veils that woman in saudi wears. He says, "we are proud to be muslim and sunni for centuries, but dont mistake us with arabs, we are turks. We have respect on other societies values and traditions but we cannot hide our women in such dresses and behind walls. We come from a nomad tradition and woman is expected to lead, and have an important role in social life." As you see, much of islam is about traditions. Most of nonsense you see in saudi or other places are not coming from islam; it comes from that societies traditions. We shouldn't take reference of bad examples.

 

Today I read provisional constitution of Somalia. Yes there are many religious references, but one thing makes it special. It reserves positions in parliament and government for women. As long as women are a part of decision and policy making, it means there is always hope and there will be less room for extremism. In this respect Somali people resembles to Turkish, and I like that.

[xabad]

<cite>

@Illyria

said:</cite>

Xabad,

Conservative muslim culture deeply rooted in venerable morality and decency in conduct and ethos is no comparison to the decadency of the more socially liberal, if mature western cultures. nevertheless, not so long ago, in the western world, someone would be hung for speaking ill of, or speaking truth to power. let us not be hasty. else, Aesop's famous fable of the Lion and the Antelope will come to pass.

 

Ilyria, this is funny. I think you have another topic in mind.

 

Glad your back

[bosmanoglu]

recent example of our support to daesh...

http://www.sozcu.com.tr/2016/gundem/suriye-tarafindan-turkiyeye-havan-topu-dustu-1036699/

 

It says mortars fell to border town and civil defence warned people to stay indoors. Turkish artillery retaliated to daesh positions close to border.

[Illyria]

Bosmanoglu,

I absolutely agree with respect to the issue concerning tradition vis-a-vis Islam. I was having that very conversation with a hardline Republican ex-army colleague who had trouble differentiating the two. Arab culture, with its jahiliya customs, is not wholly Islamic the same way Pakistani or Malay cultures are not. This is where the west struggles with Islam. Some of the practices I saw in Xinjiang region of China, a predominantly Muslim region are highly UnIslamic yet perceived as if. The same is true with Somalis and other nationalities.

 

Galbeedi,

I think you will enjoy it even more if you take the family and unlike other west European countries, cost-wise it is not prohibitive - relative I know - with the US dollar, Euro or Sterling currencies going a long way. it is much better than Dubai, the Las Vegas of the Middle East. the downside is most Turks speak very little English with the average Turk being as proud as a mule in its natural habitat full of fodder and chaff with less care for the rest of the world, except perhaps Italy and Germany of which influences are evident in its culture from architecture to manufacturing to language. Arab and Farsi cultures are very visible in all aspects.

 

Xabad,

I was referring to the mention of satire in your earlier post in the west versus the muslim world. Good to be back into the fold. what happened to the forum? it is as if it was declared mortuum with new names and faces abound.

 

[Che -Guevara]

President Erdogan had no reason to risk his life and the lives of his family when he first visited Hamar.

 

That's said, modern nation states are driven by self interest. Somalia would be advised to view the relationship as one of mutual interest. Anything beyond that will result in self delusion.

 

And welcome bosmanoglue.

[bosmanoglu]

Thanks Che-Guevara... You are right on mutual-interest relationships perpective. As I tried to explain my lenghty earlier posts, Somalia should stand up first, set-up it institutions, pump up its production to be strong member of international community. That is the first priority. If these effords wont be succesful, there won't be investments, there won't be economy etc.

 

Now state, economy, politics are all immature. Somalia is selling its products way below international prices, just because of neccesity. And buying products way above international market prices. There is no tax collection, no standards. As I explained before, I personally would like to see Somalia as a strong trade partner of Turkiye in future. But there many great tasks to finish before that.

[xabad]

^ Bosmanoglu you denied Turkish collusion with and active support for Daish, here is the news out today.

 

Islamic State ran a sophisticated immigration operation through a Syrian border town with Turkey until its defeat in the area by Kurds this summer, documents obtained by the Guardian suggest.

 

Passenger manifests dated between December 2014 and March 2015, which were seized by Kurdish commanders in Tel Abyad, carry the stamps of Isis’s “department of immigration” and “department of transport”. They show that buses passed through the town having submitted the names, dates of births, ID numbers and even birthplace of scores of travellers.

 

The border crossing remained open until Kurdish forces took control of the town in June, at which point

Turkey promptly sealed it

. The crossing remains closed, a government official confirmed.

 

Turkey, a member of Nato, has been under international pressure because of its border with Syria, as concerns mounted over the ease with which Isis fighters appeared to be able to enter and leave territory held by the group.

 

Speaking in France shortly after the attacks in November, Barack Obama said he had had “repeated conversations” with his Turkish counterpart, Recep Tayyip Erdoğan about border security, adding: “We’ve seen some serious progress on that front, but there are still some gaps.” The US president mentioned a

60-mile stretch that he said continued to serve as a transit point for fighters and Isis fuel exports.

 

David Phillips, an academic at Columbia University and author of two recent research papers into links between Turkey and Isis, alleges that the country “knows the movements of all persons and can control the flow across the border if it chooses”.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/10/isis-immigration-operation-turkey-syria-border-passenger-manifests-tel-abyad-islamic-state

 

Even the worst Arab regimes are better than this, shame on Turkey. This murderous group will be gone in a short period, but Turkey's has irredeemably damaged it reputation and blackened its name forever.