Child Marriage in Islam

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@Khayr

said:</cite>

You have already manipulated things with

that

wildly provactive title.

It is like saying

your carpet stinks, now let us discuss why it could smell good.

 

For any outsider, the image of a stinky carpet becomes embedded. With that image, all logical arguments immediately cease and the logical fallacy of appeal to association and appeal to emotion wins.

 

I mean Tallabo and Xabad are just two sides to the same crooked coin. A bunch of con artists posing as sincere nomads.

What is wrong with the title and how is it provocative? And how did you come to the conclusion that I am a con artist? Apart from his malicious language I don't even see anything wrong with the citations Xabad used in his arguments.

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

I completely agree with you. Tallaabo has some very questionable logic when he posted this thread. He bought into their narrative and actually went along with it, without even questioning it himself. I actually expected better of him.

 

Xabad isn't even Somali, he admitted it before on this forum. And his arguments/behavior/blatant lies shows that he's not worth having a discussion with either.

Brother Kenny, isn't marriage a very important and valid topic to be discussed by Muslims?

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@Holac

said:</cite>

In Xabad's trolling universe, there are no nuances, no time sensitive traditions, no spiritual journeys. He doesn't see beyond today's TV sound bites and the loud voice of the extreme right. His world is very black and white. Trying to debate him on matters of religion, is like debating with a waxed face idiot yelling "God doesn't exit, if he does, show me" all day.

 

It is pointless.

 

Xabad, put aside your anti-Islamic views for a minute and tell us, What issues do you find important or debate worthy on a Somali forum? I'd love to see you take a break from this obsession with bashing Islam and challenge us on irreligious topics we may disagree.

By "time sensitive traditions" do you mean what was practised by the prophet and the Sahaba can be ditched and made illegal in the 21st century?

[xabad]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

And it doesn't matter what the argument says, Xabad/others just copy and paste these arguments into this forum and then expect us to defend it. Never mind the fact that all of these arguments have already been addressed in years past on this forum, in other forums, and in other books and lectures and articles as well.

 

why can't you address the allegations forthrightly, i put it to you that islam allows child marriage, and you can't disprove it.

you keep repeating it has been dealt with before, its clear you evading the topic at hand. you only enforce the suspicions of all people.

 

 

 

[DoctorKenney]

<cite>

@Tallaabo

said:</cite>

Brother Kenny, isn't marriage a very important and valid topic to be discussed by Muslims?

 

Yes marriage in Islam is a valid topic to be discussed. But there are appropriate times and places to discuss such things. Discussing this thing here, on SomaliaOnline, when this topic has already been recycled millions of times on the internet, and in books, isn't going to accomplish anything. And furthermore, discussing this amongst atheists who are only interested in trolling is very questionable as well.

 

This thread you created is insulting and malicious. And you are malicious

[xabad]

Ibn Kathir writes regarding 65:4

 

divorce them at their iddah "The`Iddah is made up of cleanliness and the menstrual period." So he divorces her while it is clear that she is pregnant, or he does not due to having sex, or since he does not know if she is pregnant or not. This is why the scholars said that there are two types of divorce, one that conforms to the Sunnah and another innovated. The divorce that conforms to the Sunnah is one where the husband pronounces one divorce to his wife when she is not having her menses and without having had sexual intercourse with her after the menses ended. One could divorce his wife when it is clear that she is pregnant. As for the innovated divorce, it occurs when one divorces his wife when she is having her menses, or after the menses ends, has sexual intercourse with her and then divorces her, even though he does not know if she became pregnant or not. There is a third type of divorce, which is neither a Sunnah nor an innovation where one divorces A YOUNG WIFE WHO HAS NOT BEGUN TO HAVE MENSES, the wife who is beyond the age of having menses, and divorcing one's wife before the marriage was consummated.

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

Yes marriage in Islam is a valid topic to be discussed. But there are appropriate times and places to discuss such things. Discussing this thing here, on SomaliaOnline, when this topic has already been recycled millions of times on the internet, and in books, isn't going to accomplish anything. And furthermore, discussing this amongst atheists who are only interested in trolling is very questionable as well.

 

This thread you created is insulting and malicious. And you are malicious

Mr Kenney I created this thread after I read a book about women in my local mosque. In that book there is a chapter about marriage and it clearly says "girls who are under the age of puberty can be married without their consent". It is their father who has the right to give them away for marriage.

[DoctorKenney]

But Tallaabo, they can be engaged or betrothed to be married through her father. But once she reaches the age of puberty, it becomes her decision to marry the fiance whether she likes him or not. The Quran in Surah 4:19 prohibits forced marriages, and there are several Hadiths which outline the fact that it's forbidden in Islam for a woman to married to someone she doesn't like.

 

She can be engaged sure, but when it comes to actually signing the marriage contract and consummating the marriage, she has to be

 

1. Mentally and Physically Mature

 

2. Consenting to the actual marriage, with no coercion involved.

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

But Tallaabo, they can be

engaged

or

betrothed

to be married through her father. But once she reaches the age of puberty, it becomes her decision to marry the fiance whether she likes him or not. The Quran in Surah 4:19 prohibits forced marriages, and there are several Hadiths which outline the fact that it's forbidden in Islam for a woman to married to someone she doesn't like.

 

She can be engaged sure, but when it comes to actually signing the marriage contract and consummating the marriage, she has to be

 

1. Mentally and Physically Mature

 

2. Consenting to the actual marriage, with no coercion involved.

So if a girl reaches the age of puberty at 10 years and consents to consummate a pre-arranged marriage to a 35 years old man, isn't that ok with you?

[DoctorKenney]

As I said before, if the young woman is physically mature, mentally mature, and consents to a marriage with another person, as long as she's not harmed by this marriage, and she's fully capable of handling the responsibilities of marriage and she's mature enough, then yeah I see nothing wrong with it.

 

And neither should you. And you have no moral justification for saying otherwise. The age of marriage in Mexico is like 13. And it varies from culture to culture. But I'd much prefer that the young woman marries a man close to her own age, with a small age gap. But if she wants to marry a man twice or thrice her own age, then that's up to her. Who are you to say she can't do it? The legal age here in America is 18, but if this 18 year old woman decides to marry a 60 year old man, who are you to complain about it? And would you complain the same way, if it was an 18 year old young man marrying a 70 year old woman? You're full of emotion and lack rationality.

 

You're very dishonest here, as the way you phrased the question was more trolling and playing into the hands of the atheists on this thread such as Xabad.

[xabad]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

As I said before, if the young woman is physically mature, mentally mature, and consents to a marriage with another person, as long as she's not harmed by this marriage, and she's fully capable of handling the responsibilities of marriage and she's mature enough, then yeah I see nothing wrong with it.

 

in your earlier post you mentioned puberty, but after tallaabo cornered you, you came up with physically mature, mentally mature. which is which ? and how can you tell if a child is mentally mature, its a subjective question. why don't you be a man and just agree with your religion and say it allows child marriage and if not provide real textual proof that islam forbids it. your own personal interpretations have no place in this discussion. simple

 

 

 

[DoctorKenney]

Xabad, as I've said before, I consider it beneath me to reply to the likes of you.

[xabad]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

Xabad, as I've said before, I consider it beneath me to reply to the likes of you.

 

That indicates to me you are on shaky foundations and scared of the truth.

 

this discussion is not about personal vanity or how high you rate yourself kenney.

 

provide your proofs and don't endlessly go on about how i am not somali, how am atheist iyo nac nac kale

[DoctorKenney]

<cite>

@xabad

said:</cite>

That indicates to me you are on shaky foundations and scared of the truth.

 

this discussion is not about personal vanity or how high you rate yourself kenney.

 

provide your proofs and don't endlessly go on about how i am not somali, how am atheist iyo nac nac kale

 

So because I don't want to address you, I'm suddenly "scared of the truth"?

 

 

Go away Xabad, I've said it before on other threads, and other SOL Members have said the same thing; that you're a troll who's not worth having a discussion with. Your blatant lies, insults, and misrepresentations of the truth are well-documented on this forum, and for me to address you would be the height of self-degradation.

[xabad]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

So because I don't want to address you, I'm suddenly "scared of the truth"?

 

 

Go away Xabad, I've said it before on other threads, and other SOL Members have said the same thing; that you're a troll who's not worth having a discussion with. Your blatant lies, insults, and misrepresentations of the truth are well-documented on this forum, and for me to address you would be the height of self-degradation.

 

you have conceeded, that is good. tallaabo's has his answers now.