The People of Palestine. Should they move to the Sinai??

[DoctorKenney]

CidanSultan, I mentioned earlier that it's an important principle of Shariah that we accept the lesser harm in order to remove the greater harm. So the lesser harm (Palestinians moving to Sinai) is a more acceptable solution than the greater harm (Palestinians being killed daily).

 

It's picking between 2 bad scenarios, one worse than the other. And I can't stand to see even ONE Muslim being killed unjustly, which is why I think this is the better solution.

 

BTW, the same thing was being said about Israel in 1966. Israel was surrounded on all sides by the Arab States, and Gamal AbdelNasser kept threatening to destroy the Israelis. Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, and Egypt were all against Israel, and any reasonable observer would have thought that Israel's days were numbered. World Public Opinion of Israel back then was very negative, even in America many politicians (including Presidents) were openly Anti-Semitic in 1966. President Nixon openly hated the Jews, and nobody thought twice about it.

 

But here we are, 48 years later and Israel still exists. We don't know how much longer this State will continue to exist. It could be 50 years or 100 years. But in the meantime, we can't reasonably suggest to the Palestinians that they stay in that land, when we wouldn't stay there ourselves. I know if I had my family living in Gaza, I would do whatever's possible to get them out of that land. Move them to Jordan. There are already millions of Palestinians in Jordan and they're prospering compared to their brothers in Gaza.

 

Quran 3:140: "If a wound should touch you - there has already touched the [opposing] people a wound similar to it. And these days [of varying conditions] We alternate among the people so that Allah may make evident those who believe and [may] take to Himself from among you martyrs - and Allah does not like the wrongdoers -"

[xabad]

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@CidanSultan

said:</cite>

Another statement by the polytheist without merit...have you even read the book you can't discredit its it's backed by DNA sampling. It's backed by the fact that Eastern European Jews call themselves ashkaanzi. It's been proven in the Yiddish language etc.

 

Listen, the word ashkenaz refers to the area around the rhine or modern day germany in hebrew where the jews first settled long before this khazarian nonsense you're fond of.

Yiddish has nothing to do with khazarian which also disproves your assertion, its a german/hebrew mix.

 

The genetic sampling also shows european jews actually related to levantine peoples and no hint of turkic genes. so much for khazarian.

 

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@CidanSultan

said:</cite>

How did 10 million Jews get to Europe

??? And how was the khazarian fact debunked tell us ? Lol. Without posting another bull?it biased site give us dna evidence or clear proof that discredit this fact.

 

Do you think 10 million left israel and migrated like that at once. they multiplied once they settled and spread like all populations do.

[CidanSultan]

This polytheist, one statement after another. You understand why he'll was created when speaking to these monkey worshippers. Doctor I can understand were you are coming from Walahi I do. A lot of Palestinians are scattered across the Middle East in every country.God knows best a lot of Palestinians have already left but these people it's difficult they can't leave or get in. War has been declared on them by Arab secularist in Egypt and the Muslim world has poor leadership at present. I can only speak for myself I would rather die then give a single inch of my homeland to a man from Poland claiming to be a Jew. What's left in Palestine now is probably the toughest of the tough most of the people left decades ago. Even my own grandmother encountered Palestinians begging on the streets of Aden in Yemen. We must resist while we protect Muslim life there has to be a way to achieve both but at present it's difficult with the lack of effective Muslim leadership.

[xabad]

<cite>

@CidanSultan

said:</cite>

This polytheist, one statement after another. You understand why he'll was created when speaking to these monkey worshippers.

 

kix kix your threatening me with hell after i proved you wrong.

don't read quack books next time if you want to debate people.

 

[CidanSultan]

As usual your wrong, Yiddish is not only a combination of German and Hebrew. Yiddish is Slavic, German and Hebrew a small bit is Hebrew. It didn't originate from the Rhine but in Poland. Secondly being the polytheist that you are you attempt to distort the truth yet again. Most Jews come from Russia, Hungary, Poland and Eastern Europe. This is not the Rhineland. This is Eastern Europe. You intentionally try to confuse the reader and distort and claim that an insignificant small group of Jews in the Rhineland gave birth to millions of predominantly Slavic speaking Jews that stretch from Russia all the way to Poland? Is that what your claiming? Even the Jews of Yemen who had lived there for thousands of years did not even produce a million let alone 20 million.

 

Three states predominately that Jews live in Poland, Russia and Hungary. How did they get to theses countries?

We have both Byzantine and Abbasid chaliphate records that show a kingdom of 4-5 million people existed, they had a king and a very strong army. Their army was so strong they stopped the expansion of the caliphate into Russia. Both records prove that this kingdom embraced Judaism as it's official religion. The records are available for all to see referenced properly in the 13th tribe.

 

In Poland they were invited by the polish kings to settle, They came and established shtetles or towns and they developed a new language called Yiddish. Because in Poland not the Rhineland there were also Germans and hence the connection between Slavic, German and Hebrew (a small bit).

 

In hungry the people hungry are the only asiatic people in Europe. I repeat the only asiatic people in Europe. So how did these asiatic people come to hungry the Magyars and the Khazars are related they are the same asiatic peoples. Before the mongol invasion the Khazars pushed the Mugyarz into hungry were they settled and after the collapse of khazaria a group of Khazars moved to hungry. Russia, the Khazars always lived in Russia and some stayed and lived in Ukraine and established a khanate in Russia.

 

DNA science has also backed up this fact that educated Jews admit they are not ethnically Jewish. In essence it's like a Chinese man who converted to Islam claiming to be an Arab.

[CidanSultan]

Read the book the author is a Khazar Jew:

 

Arthur Koestler was born on September 5, 1905 in Budapest, Hungary and studied at the University of Vienna. Koestler was a Middle East correspondent for several German newspapers, wrote for the Manchester Guardian, the London Times and the New York Herald Tribune

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=IbZ5ngEACAAJ&dq=the+13th+tribe&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_YfeU6nqDoWO7Qbax4DYDw&ved=0CCMQ6AEwAA

[xabad]

<cite>

@CidanSultan

said:</cite>

As usual your wrong,

Yiddish is not only a combination of German and Hebrew. Yiddish is Slavic, German and Hebrew a small bit is Hebrew.

Secondly being the polytheist that you are you attempt to distort the truth yet again. Most Jews come from Russia, Hungary, Poland and Eastern Europe. This is not the Rhineland. This is Eastern Europe. You intentionally try to confuse the reader and distort and claim that an insignificant small group of Jews in the Rhineland gave birth to millions of predominantly Slavic speaking Jews that stretch from Russia all the way to Poland? Is that what your claiming? Even the Jews of Yemen who had lived there for thousands of years did not even produce a million let alone 20 million..

 

still proves me right. yiddish is not a turkic language. is it ?

slavic is just a minor latter addition.

 

jews first settled in the rhine area and spread to eastern europe and elsewhere, have you not seen their surnames even in russia, hungary, poland are still germanic eg rotenberg, horovitz, klein, fischer, neumann etc

from these tiny rhineland community sprang virtually the whole of eastern european jewry.

arid yemen can't sustain the same level of population as temperate, agriculturally abundant Europe, don't be daft.

 

 

 

[CidanSultan]

Oxford journals:

 

Hebrew language and Jewish culture have been around for thousands of years. For much of that history, the Jews managed to maintain their heritage and cultural identity in the absence of a geographical state. Wanderings, settlements, and dispersal were thus a big part of their history. Is evidence for that history preserved in genome data?

 

Eran Elhaik, a geneticist at the Johns Hopkins School of Public Health, thinks so. In a recently published study in Genome Biology Evolution (Elhaik 2012), he is calling for a rewrite of commonly held assumptions about Jewish ancestry. Instead of being primarily the descendants of the 12 tribes of Israel, present-day Jewish populations are, finds Elhaik, primarily the children of a Turkish people who lived in what is now Russia, north of Georgia, east of Ukraine. This civilization, the Khazars, converted from tribal religions to Judaism between the 7th and 9th centuries.

 

The controversy cut into by Elhaik's work runs deep, far past the lab bench. Among some circles, his conclusions are bound to be unpopular. “This is the first scientific paper to prove the Khazarian Hypothesis and reject the Rhineland Hypothesis,” he says, “and with it about 40 years of research.” Although his findings will not be welcome in all circles, Elhaik's interest is more medical than political.

 

“All I want is to help my colleagues who are studying genetic disorders,” he says. “I hope this work will open up a new era in genetic studies where population stratification will be used more correctly.”

 

Jewish populations are used in many disease studies because of their presumed genetic homogeny. Some conditions, such as Tay–Sachs disease, are more common among select Jewish populations than other populations. However, Elhaik says, the acceptance of a flawed origin narrative is hampering the best science.

 

For several decades, two hypothetical backgrounds of present-day European Jews have seemed plausible to historians and geneticists. In the favored “Rhineland Hypothesis,” Jews descended from Israelite–Canaanite tribes who left the Holy Land for Europe in the seventh century, following the Muslim conquest of Palestine. Then, in the beginning of the 15th century, a group of approximately 50,000 left Germany, the Rhineland, for the east. There they reproduced rapidly, in a kind of “hyper–baby boom.” Their breeding outpaced their non-Jewish neighbors by an order of magnitude—despite disease, persecutions, wars, and economic hardship—ballooning to approximately 8 million strong by the 20th century. Under this history, European Jews would be very similar to each other and would have Middle Eastern ancestry.

 

Several scholars prefer the “Khazarian Hypothesis,” Elhaik included. This suggests the Jewish-convert Khazars, with reinforcements from Mesopotamian and Greco-Roman Jews, formed the basis of Eastern Europe's Jewish population when they fled northeast, following the collapse of their empire at the 13th century.

 

Elhaik first became fascinated by this idea 10 years ago when reading Arthur Koestler best-selling book The Thirteenth Tribe, published in 1976. Koestler calculated that Jews could not have numbered 8 million in Eastern Europe without the Khazar contribution. Upon reading his ideas, “I couldn’t wait for genetic data that would allow someone to publish an evaluation of this hypothesis,” says Elhaik.

 

When Behar et al. published “The genome-wide structure of the Jewish people” in 2010, Elhaik decided to investigate the question that had intrigued him for so long. Using data published by Behar, he calculated seven measures of ancestry, relatedness, and geographical origin. Though he used some of the same statistical tests as prior studies, he chose different comparisons.

 

“Results in the current literature are tangled,” Elhaik says. “Everyone is basically following the same assumption: Ashkenazi Jews are a population isolate, so they are all similar to one another, and this is completely incorrect.”

Previous studies had, for example, combined the question of similarity among and between Jewish populations and the question of ancestry and relatedness to non-Jewish populations. Elhaik viewed these questions separately. Jewish communities are less homogeneous than is popularly thought, he says, with Jewish communities along the former Khazarian border showing the most heterogeneity.

 

His second question centered on ancestry: When comparing Jewish communities to their non-Jewish neighbors, Caucasus or Levant (Middle Eastern) populations—which is the closest to Jews? “All Eurasian Jewish communities are closer to Caucasus populations,” he writes, with Central European Jews closer to Italian non-Jews as the exception. Not one of the eight evaluated Jewish populations were closer to Levant populations.

 

“I had the hardest time clearing myself from the mindset (of previous work),” Elhaik says. “I was on the train, thinking hard, when it came to me how to separate the questions. It was a great moment.” However, it would be a mistake, Elhaik says, to conclude present-day Jews have nothing to do with the ancient Judeans. “I found a signature of the Middle East. I’m not certain whether it suggests Judean or Iranian ancestry, but it's there.” Iranian, as well as Judean, Jews began joining the Khazarian empire as early as the 5th century B.C.E. “It might be strange given today's political situation, but it makes a lot of historical sense.”

 

For Shlomo Sand, history professor at Tel Aviv University and author of the controversial book The Invention of the Jewish People, Elhaik's paper was a vindication of his long-held ideas.

 

"It's so obvious for me," says Sand. “Some people, historians and even scientists, turn a blind eye to the truth. Once to say Jews were a race was anti-Semitic, now to say they're not a race is anti-Semitic. It's crazy how history plays with us.“

 

“There is no Jewish genome and certainly no Jewish gene,” says the Israeli-born Elhaik. Instead, all humans are a mix of the same building blocks, built with slightly different architectures. “The confusion about European Jews results from their tragic history of persecutions and deportations, creating multiple links between ancestry and geography. By dismantling our notions of genetically distinct populations and understanding our kinship, we can better appreciate our common history, and more importantly, our shared future.“

[CidanSultan]

Polytheist your clearly wrong again....genetically the Rhinelands small Jewish population is insignificant and are in DNA terms the same as Italians that's what the research shows. Yiddish is not as you claimed a Rhineland language it's combination of Slavic and German with a little bit of Hebrew established in Poland in the shtetles. It's more bits of two languages with a bit of Hebrew not really even a language. So again you were wrong. When asked to answer my question about population growth you said climate is why they reproduced at an amazing rate regardless of war, poverty, decease and Jewish pogroms. etc which tended to be more rampant in Eastern Europe at that time. To hide your nonsense you are saying that the millions of Arabs in Yemen have always been there in the their millions. Clearly your wrong and looking for anything. The population of Yemen increases year on year. So are you saying Yemeni Jews are incapable of producing children even though Arabs are. Can you explain to me why then is it the same case for sapharidic Jews they don't even number a million and they have lived with Muslims in Spain and North Africa for 800 years and have the same DNA as Berbers. Nonsense. Then you claim names as the last final nonsensical argument. Not realising that the Slavic language is related and that most Jews in Eastern Europe actually have Slavic surnames and not German ones. The only exception being "Jews" that moved to Germany and Austria later from Poland for settlement.

 

 

The truth is Jews are not Jews biologically they are converts. Judaism use to be a missionary religion. They converted people in North Africa hence why sapharidc Jews have Berber DNA. Yemeni Jews have Arab DNA and hence why Khazars have asiatic Turkic DNA the same DNA as the Mugyarz their causins that still live in hungry.

[CidanSultan]

The reason why these types of research are hidden or attacked is because if Jews are not really Jews then their claim to the land is null and void because they are not the seed of Abraham. The land therefore wasn't promised to them. History and archeology also proves that the Jews were never exiled from that land they continued to live there because the Romans were a tax funded empire. They needed people to tax, so the people stayed, the islamic conquest reached Palestine. The umari treaty was signed by umar the third chaliph of the Muslim chaliphate. Large numbers of Jews embraced Islam and have become today's Palestinians. Proof of this is the number of days Palestinians wait to circumcise their boys, the Jewish graves some still visit and the belongings left to them by their forefathers that they don't even know what it means. Most importantly the blood that runs through their veins not some Turkic Slavic blood.

[xabad]

There you go spamming the forum with your garbage. nobody is going to read your diarrhea.

[CidanSultan]

^^^^

 

Polytheist is that the best defence you can muster. You better ask your monkey statue to help you. It's become apparent that You know very little about most things it's not surprising that your a polytheist.

 

 

[Dhagax-Tuur]

Ciidan, you do hv a point, but this is my question, if Israelis could stand their ground in face of 350mn odd Arabs, why not Palestinians?

 

I know what they are facing today is far stronger than what the Israelis faced, but I believe they should take the difficult option, that is to stay and see them out.

 

Given what they are doing today, all the signs are there for their eventual departure from the land.

[xabad]

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@CidanSultan

said:</cite>

^^^^

 

Polytheist is that the best defence you can muster. You better ask your monkey statue to help you. It's become apparent that You know very little about most things it's not surprising that your a polytheist.

 

 

 

Foolish man your are comparing Hindus who worship phallic symbols or moose who worship a moon god to our waaq. your are tripping.

[DoctorKenney]

Xabad, get off this thread. It's not meant for you. You are neither Somali nor are you Muslim.

 

And I'm not here to let you de-rail this thread. LEAVE, stop changing the topic. I don't care about what you have to say.