CidanSultan Posted July 27, 2014 So after half an hour away the polytheist did a google search the evidence the polytheist comes back with a cut and past of a quranic verse and an allegation that it was copied by a man by the name of gallen but no actual written work of his is produced to compare the two. Simply it's like me saying that the books of John Paul Sartre are copied from my book without actually showing any similarities or actual proofs. The other two websites... Islam watch and the other one are all bull and we all know this so no need to go into them. So let's examine the mushriks claims... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xabad Posted July 27, 2014 <cite> @CidanSultan said:</cite> So after half an hour away the polytheist did a google search the evidence the polytheist comes back with a cut and past of a quranic verse and an allegation that it was copied by a man by the name of gallen but no actual written work of his is produced to compare the two. Simply it's like me saying I the books of John Paul Sartre are copied from my book without actually showing any similarities or actual proofs. The other two websites... Islam watch and the other one are all bull and we all know this so no need to go into them. So let's examine the mushriks claims... ^ watch the above if you can't go through the texts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoctorKenney Posted July 27, 2014 LOL^^ He references TheRationaliser. Is that the best he can do? This Youtube Character was absolutely destroyed on Youtube by a couple of Muslims It was a comprehensive, 3-hours-long, all-out rebuttal which put this shameless Kaffir in his place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CidanSultan Posted July 27, 2014 Gallens concepts of embryology are not similar to the study of modern day embryologist or in the Quran: read for yourself Journal of medicine: Galen regarded the living being as owing all its characteristics to an indwelling physis or natural entity with whose “faculties” or powers it was the province of physiology to deal. The living organism was thought to have a kind of artistic creative power, which acts on the things around it by means of the faculties, by the aid of which each part attracts to itself what is useful and good for it, and repels what is not. These faculties, such as the “peptic faculty” in the stomach and the “sphygmic faculty” in the heart, are regarded by Galen as the causes of the specific functions or activity of the part in question. Galen divides the effects of the faculties into three, genesis, growth and nutrition, and means by the first what we mean by embryogeny. “Genesis is not a simple activity of Nature, but is compounded of alteration and of shaping. That is to say, in order that bone, nerve, veins and all other tissues may come into existence, the underlying substance from which the animal springs must be altered; and in order that the substance so altered may acquire its appropriate shape and position, its cavities, outgrowths, and attachments, and so forth, it has to undergo a shaping or formative process. One would be justified in calling this substance which undergoes alteration the material of an animal, just as wood is the material of a ship and wax of an image.” Galen then goes on to treat embryogeny in more detail. Galen did not think that menstrual blood played a role in procreation, but concluded that female semen forms the allantoois and the coagulation of male and female semen in the uterus results in the formation of the chorion. He spoke about four stages of development. And he also divided the body into two classes, partes spermaticae and partes sanguineae, a classification which remained in use for several hundred years. “The seed having been cast into the womb or into the earth – for there is no difference [he says] then after a certain definite period a great number of parts become constituted in the substance which is being generated; these differ as regards moisture, dryness, coldness and warmth, and in all the other qualities which naturally derive therefrom [such as hardness, softness, viscosity, friability, lightness, heaviness, density, rarity, smoothness, roughness, thickness and thinness]. Now nature constructs bone, cartilage, nerve, membrane, ligament, vein and so forth at the first stage of the animal’s genesis, employing at this task a faculty which is, in general terms, generative and alterative, and, in more detail, warming, chilling, drying and moistening, or such as spring from the blending of these, for example, the bone-producing, nerve-producing and cartilage-producing, faculties (since for the sake of clearness these terms must be used as well). Now the peculiar flesh of the liver is of a certain specific kind, also that of the spleen, that of the kidneys and that of the lungs, and that of the heart, so also the proper substance of the brain, stomach, oesophagus, intestines and uterus is a sensible element, of similar parts all through, simple and uncompounded. … Thus the special alterative faculties in each animal are of the same number as the elementary parts, and further, the activities must necessarily correspond each to one of the special parts, just as each part has its special use. As for the actual substance of the coats of the stomach, intestine and uterus, each of these has been rendered what it is by a special alterative faculty of Nature; while the bringing of these together, the combination therewith of the structures that are inserted into them, etc., have all been determined by a faculty which we call the shaping or formative faculty; this faculty we also state to be artistic-nay, the best and highest art-doing everything for some purpose, so that there is nothing ineffective or superfluous, or capable of being better disposed.” Galen shared many common views with the Hippocratic writers so the book on the formation of the embryo first gives a historical account of the views these writers. Then it goes on to describe the anatomy of allantois, amnios, placenta and membranes. “I return again to what was postponed from the beginning. This (embryo) draws to itself through the vessels descending to the uterus blood and pneuma, each to its own particular cavity; and, as was said earlier also, along with its own particular cavity ; and as was said earlier also, along with the pneuma that comes through the arteries, it draws in a blood that is finer and warmer than the blood in the veins. From these it creates tile warmest of the inner organs; and that other thick blood produces for it the form of the liver. And accordingly the many veins that pass through the chorion proceed to (the liver); but the arteries (proceed) to the other organ, the warmer one, which because of a superabundance of heat like a flame does not stop moving but constantly expands and contracts by turns. The veins and arteries that carry matter to these inner organs are as it were their roots; and those that carry (the matter) out to the whole foetus are analogous to trunks that split into many branches. And they too have their generation in the hollowing out of the substance of the semen. The third of the ruling parts, from which all the nerves grow. has its generation from the semen itself and from it alone. For in the mixing with the female semen many of the bubbles burst, and the pneuma from them passed inside and deep down, in the desire to preserve itself- it was not a kind of vapour but was a self-moving source of the animal and likewise the surrounding fluid of its own accord formed within the semen a cavity filled with pneuma. Then to prevent its being readily emptied out, (the puenma) makes for itself a tightly sealed chamber, pushing back to the outer circumference all that was thicker and harder in the semen’s moist substance surrounding it; and this, when heated and dried, would in time be alone The power that moulds the animal performs this work at the start; but it is not yet visible at the start because of its small size; when it can first be seen, these are the largest and they lie in order, close to each other and touching, the part that is going to become the source of the nerves, the one that we call the brain being assigned to a higher post; and below it the heart and liver touching each other. As time goes on the three sources mentioned stand further apart and send their offshoots this way and that to the entire body of the animal that is fitted to them, the brain sending out the spinal medulla, a kind of trunk, as it were, the heart the greatest artery, which Aristotle calls the aorta, and the liver the vena cava. And also in the early stages, simultaneously with the generation of these parts, the spine appears around the spinal medulla, hardened in just the way that we described a little earlier; and around the brain, enclosing it on all sides, the cranium appears; and the thorax around the heart, like some spacious yet tightly sealed chamber. At the time of birth this would be not a chamber only, but the first and principal organ of respiration. These parts, then, come into being at some later time. But let us take the account back again to the first conformation of the animal, and in order to make our account orderly and clear, let us divide the creation of the foetus overall into four periods of time. The first is that in which as is seen both in abortions and in dissection, the form of the semen prevails. At this time, Hippocrates too, the all marvellous, does not yet call the conformation of the animal a foetus; as we heard just now in the case of semen voided in the sixth day, he still calls it semen. But when it has been filled with blood, and heart, brain and liver are still unarticulated and unshaped yet have by now a certain solidarity and considerable size, this is the second period; the substance of the foetus has the form of flesh and no longer the form of semen. Accordingly you would find that Hippocrates too no longer calls such a form semen but, as was said, foetus. The third period follows on this, when, as was said, it is possible to see the three ruling parts clearly and a kind of outline, a silhouette, as it were, of all the other parts. You will see the conformation of the three ruling parts more clearly, that of the parts of the stomach more dimly, and much more still, that of the limbs. Later on they form “twigs”, as Hippocrates expressed it, indicating by the term their similarity to branches. The fourth and final period is at the stage when all the parts in the limbs have been differentiated; and at this part Hippocrates the marvellous no longer calls the foetus an embryo only, but already a child, too when he says that it jerks and moves as an animal now fully formed.” Galen further goes on to describe the embryo as a plant “But for the present I need not speak of the foetus as an animal, for as a plant it got all its generation and formation from the semen, and right from the start it indicated, as plants do, that the beginning of its motion and formation was two-fold. The downward and underground growth of roots in plants corresponds in the foetus to the growth of the arteries and veins of the chorion to the uterus; and the ascending stalk in plants corresponds to the out growths from the three ruling parts in embryos. Again, just as plants have a two-fold growth from seeds, sending stalk and branches upward as far as the outer most shoots and dividing the root-growth downward, so also the embryos have much-divided outgrowths consisting in arteries and veins that extend as stalks to the whole foetus and as roots to the uterus.” (Corpus Medicorum Graecorum: Galeni de Semine: Galen: On Semen (Greek text with English trans. Phillip de Lacy, Akademic Verlag, 1992) section I:9:1-10, pp. 91-95) Galen taught that the embryo transformed from possessing the life of a plant to that of an animal, and the umbilicus was made the root in the analogy with a plant. The embryo formed firstly, from menstrual blood, and secondly, from blood brought by the umbilical cord, and the way the blood it turns into the embryo is made clearer as follows: “If you cut open the vein of an animal and let the blood flow out into moderately hot water, the formation of a coagulum very like the substance of the liver will be seen to take place.” And in effect this viscus, according to Galen, is formed before the heart. The blood of the embryo was thought to pass from the heart to the lungs and not vice versa. Respiration was thought to occur via the umbilical cord embryo and waste excreted into the allantois. Male foetuses were believed to form quicker than female ones because of the male germs superior heat and dryness. Galen also held the Aristotelian concept which associated male conception with the right side and the female with the left of the womb and intra-uterine movements were said to be felt sooner in the case of the male than in that of the female. Dry foods eaten by the mother, were proposed to lead to a more rapid development of the foetus than other kinds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xabad Posted July 27, 2014 <cite> @DoctorKenney said:</cite> LOL^^ He references TheRationaliser. Is that the best he can do? This Youtube Character was absolutely destroyed on Youtube by a couple of Muslims It was a comprehensive, 3-hours-long, all-out rebuttal which put this shameless Kaffir in his place. put on the link so we can judge Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CidanSultan Posted July 27, 2014 Now compare that with this and tell me which one is correct and tell me how it was copied from the Greeks. 7. Embryo development in the Qur’an Embryo development in the Qur’an is divided in three main areas. These are as follows: Nutfah: This refers to the beginning of embryonic development and covers the period from the mixing of male and female secretions to the implantation of the zygote into the uterus. During this phase the unicellular zygote continues to divide and assumes a more complex shape. Khalaqna or Takhliq: This is the second phase of embryonic development, or period of organogenesis. It begins with the third week and ends with the eighth week of pregnancy. It involves further cell division and differentiation into human organs and systems. It is divided into several sub stages ‘Alaqa, Mudgah, Izam and Lahm. Each of these terms describes the embryo in a precise and comprehensive manner Ansha’na or Nash’ah: This is the third and final phase of foetal development. Rapid cell division, differentiation, and growth leads to the formation of a definite human shape, 7.1 The beginning of development This is subdivided as follow: i). Nutfah (The drop) Al-Nutfah in Arabic means a drop or a small part of fluid and Nutfah in general describes a stage where the beginnings of a human being are found in this fluid (Ref: 6A, 12/6; 17/118; 19/120: 13A, 3/436: 15A, 17/116: 1C, 2/121: 7B, 3/116: 4D, 9/235-6: 5D, 6/258: 4A, 30/234: 7A, 4/336: 10A, 13/9: 12A, 4/288). Its real meaning can only be deduced from the text of Qur’an; evidently it is a comprehensive term and includes male and female gametes and part of their natural environments of fluid. It also includes zygote, morula and blastocyst till implantation in the uterus. This is illustrated by the following citation: أَلَمْ يَكُ نُطْفَةً مِنْ مَنِيٍّ يُمْنَى “was he not a drop or part of germinal fluid (Mani) emitted or programmed” (Surah Al- Qiyama, Ayah 37) Here “Mani” means male or female germinal fluid (Ref: 1D, 5/276: 5D, 10/348:2D, 6/2497). The Prophet’s Hadith confirms the fact that the offspring is created from part of the germinal fluids: “Not from all the fluid is the offspring created” (Sahih. Muslim: Kitab Al-Nekah, Bab Al-Azl) It is also known that not all parts of the ejaculate are equally potent in the fertilisation process. “In the first portion of the ejaculate are the spermatozoa, epididymal fluids, and the secretions from the Cowper and prostate gland fluids. In the last portions of the ejaculate are the secretions of the seminal vesicles. Most spermatozoa appear in the first part of the ejaculate, which is made primarily of prostatic secretions. Thus spermatozoa in the initial portion of the ejaculate have better motility and survival than those in the later portions, which are chiefly vesicular in origin”. ii) Al Maa-ad-Dafiq (Gushing, self emitting fluid) فَلْيَنظُرْ الإِنسَانُ مِمَّ خُلِقَ (5). خُلِقَ مِنْ مَاءٍ دَافِقٍ (الطارق: 6). “Let man think from what he is created. He is created from Al Maa-ad Dafiq.” (Surah, At-Tariq,86:5-6) Linguistically, Al Maa-ad-Dafiq refers to a gushing, or self emitting fluid, or to a drop that is emitted out. In other words, it refers to a discharge that is self emitting, hence motile by itself. The use of microscope has shown that not only sperms, but the ovum also shows motility. The mature sperm is a free swimming actively motile germ cell consisting of a head and a tail. The tail provides motility to the sperm, and helps its transportation to the site of fertilisation. Fimbrae are finger like projections which are part of the infandibulum, the funnel shaped end of the fallopian tube. The cilia, or the tiny microscopic whips on the fimbrae at the same time help the movement of the ovary to the infundibulum. Unless the sperm and ovum both exhibit movement, fertilisation cannot take place. The Qur’an term “Al Maa-ad-Dafiq” thus encompassed the gushing, the self emitting as well as the motile phenomena of this sub-stage. iii) Sulalah Min Ma’a (Gentle extraction) “Sulalah” in Arabic means gentle extraction from fluid (Ref: 1D, 3/56-60: 2S, 5/1730: 4D, 11/338: 5D, 7/377). Its meaning in the context used in Qur’an is clear from the following: ثُمَّ جَعَلَ نَسْلَهُ مِنْ سُلاَلَةٍ مِنْ مَاءٍ مَهِينٍ (السجدة: 8). “Then He made his progeny gently extracted “Sulalah Min Ma’a” from lowly fluid”. (Surah As-Sajdah, Ayah 8) The fluid refers to both male and female germinal fluids containing gametes and it is now a known scientific fact that both ovum and sperm are gently extracted from their environments. The ovum is extracted in a long stream of follicular fluid. Similarly one sperm out of millions is drawn out from the seminal fluid. Further, it is now common knowledge to embryologists that usually only one sperm and one ovum are involved in the normal process of fertilisation. This fact was stated by Prophet Mohammad in the Hadith below: “Not from all the fluid is the offspring created”. (Sahih Muslim, Kitab Al-Nekah, Bab Al-Azl) iv) Al-Nutfah Al-Amhsaj In Arabic Amshaj means mixture and Al-Nutfah AI-Amshaj means a mixture of male and female germinal fluids or cells (Ref: 1A, 29/126-7: 2A, 2/195: 6A, 19/121: 7A, 6/418: 8A, 8/393; 9A, 2/454: 4D, 2/367). All Islamic scholars unanimously agree on deriving this meaning from the above expression. This is evidently clear from the following quotation: إِنَّا خَلَقْنَا الإِنسَانَ مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ أَمْشَاجٍ نَبْتَلِيهِ فَجَعَلْنَاهُ سَمِيعًا بَصِيرًا (الإنسان: 2). “Verily We created Man from mixture of germinal drop” (Surah Ad-Dahr, Ayah 2) The interpretation of this Ayah to mean mixing of male and female gametes to form the Zygote. Al-Nutfah Al-Amhsaj is a peculiar combination of Nutfah, which is a noun referring to a single drop and AI-Amshaj an adjective, which is used in plural form. The grammatical rules of the language permit singular nouns or pronouns to be described by a singular adjective. Al-Amhsaj is a plural adjective used with the singular noun Al-Nutfah. After mixture of the male and female gametes, the Zygote still remains “Nutfah” and in this context the word “Al-Nutfah Al-Amhsaj” will mean a combination of many things mixed in a single drop (Nutfah) i.e., the maternal and paternal chromosomes with their genetic material and other contents of the Cell. “Amshaj” is a plural adjective capable of agreeing with the concept of Nutfah being a multi-faceted single entity. v) Quarar Makeen (A place of settlement firmly fixed) ثُمَّ جَعَلْنَاهُ نُطْفَةً فِي قَرَارٍ مَكِينٍ (المؤمنون: 13). “Then We placed him a drop (Nutfah) in a place of settlement firmly fixed”, (Surah Al-Mu ‘minun, Ayah 13) The mother’s womb or uterus, which is firmly fixed in the body, for settlement of the conceptus is referred to in the Qur’an as “Quarar Makeen”. There is no proper English equivalent to this expression which could give a complete concept as implied by “Quarar Makeen”. This expression means settling of the conceptus in the womb and refers to the ideal situation of the latter in the mother’s body for formation and growth of a new being. This phrase is comprehensive in its meanings and covers all the known facts and those which are likely to be added later because “Quarar” is comprehensive enough to cover any additional information regarding the uterus and “Makeen” could cover any future knowledge about the relationship of the uterus to the body : vi) Three veils of darkness خَلَقَكُمْ مِنْ نَفْسٍ وَاحِدَةٍ ثُمَّ جَعَلَ مِنْهَا زَوْجَهَا وَأَنْزَلَ لَكُمْ مِنْ الأَنْعَامِ ثَمَانِيَةَ أَزْوَاجٍ يَخْلُقُكُمْ فِي بُطُونِ أُمَّهَاتِكُمْ خَلْقًا مِنْ بَعْدِ خَلْقٍ فِي ظُلُمَاتٍ ثَلاَثٍ ذَلِكُمُ اللَّهُ رَبُّكُمْ لَهُ الْمُلْكُ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ فَأَنَّى تُصْرَفُونَ (الزمر: 6). “He created you in the wombs of your mothers from one stage to another and all along three veils of darkness surrounded you”. (Surah Al-Zumar, Ayah 6) It is known that the embryo develops within three covers which have been expressed by the Qur’an as “Three veils of darkness”. These are taken to mean the following: a) The abdominal wall, b) Uterine Wall, c) The placenta with its choriono-amniotic membranes. vii) Results of fertilization مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ خَلَقَهُ فَقَدَّرَهُ (عبس: 19). “He created (Khalaqah) him from “Nutfah” and immediately laid down the plan or programme (Qadarah) of its (future development)”. (Surah ‘Abasa, Ayah 19) a. Creation Khalaqah in Arabic this means creation of a new being (Ref: 1D, 2/214: 2D, 4/1470: 3D, 157: 4D, 10/87) and aptly explains fusion of male and female gametes to form the Zygote. “this Cell marks the beginning of each of us as a unique individual”. Crossing over of chromosomes by relocating segments of maternal and paternal chromosomes, serves to shuffle the genes. b. Programming (planning) Qadarah in Arabic means “planned or programmed” and when preceded by the conjunction “FA” indicates a rapidly occurring process. In the ayah given below, “Faqadarah” is interpreted to mean that immediately upon formation of the Zygote, the future programming of the new individual is laid down. This is the result of union of male and female pronuclei, which had already undergone shuffle of genes in the process of “cross over” of chromosomes. c Sex determination The information about sex determination is beautifully narrated in the Qur’an: وَأَنَّهُ خَلَقَ الزَّوْجَيْنِ الذَّكَرَ وَالأُنْثَى (45). مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ إِذَا تُمْنَى (النجم: 46). “And He created the two sexes male and female from a drop when ejaculated or planned (Nutfah Idha Tumna) “. (Surah An-Najm, Ayah 45, 46) “Tumna” in Arabic means “ejaculated” or “planned”. “Nutfah Idha Tumna” refers to the sperm when the meaning “ejaculation” is applied and can refer to the formation of the Zygote after the union of the sperm and the ovum, when it is taken to mean “planning” (Ref: 1A, 27/44: 2A, 4/32: 3A, 8/83: 5A, 7/117: 13A, 5/116: 19A, 7/711) Although participation of an X and Y chromosome bearing sperms determines the sex, the new individual cannot be formed without the ovum. Here the second meaning of “Tumna” (planned or programmed) can be applied. What we know today with regards to sex determination bears out what was revealed in the Qur’an in the 7th century. viii) The conceptus a part of a drop مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ خَلَقَهُ فَقَدَّرَهُ (عبس: 19). “He created him from (a part of) Nutfah”. (Surah ‘Abasa, Ayah 19) In spite of the fact that the Nutfah Al-Amhsaj (fertilised ovum) is a small thing, yet the embryo does not develop from all its components. The inner cell mass contains the cells which later contribute to the formation of the embryonic area from which the embryo actually develops. Only a small portion of cells, derived by repeated division of the Zygote, take part in the formation of the actual embryo, Ayah 19 of Surah ‘Abasa accommodates this fact: مِنْ نُطْفَةٍ خَلَقَهُ فَقَدَّرَهُ (عبس: 19). “He created him from a part of a drop (Min Nutfah) and then immediately programmed him (his future)”. (Surah ‘Abasa, Ayah 19) “Min Nutfah” implies that only a small number of the total cells produced by Nutfah shall take part in formation of the embryo. When Nutfah enlarges, part of it becomes embryonic and the greater part becomes nutritive and protective in function. These groups of cells are derived from a single “Nutfah”. This meaning is reinforced by the Hadith: “Not from all the fluid is the offspring created and if Allah willed to create a thing, nothing can make Him powerless”. (Muslim: Kitab Al-Nikah, Bab Al-Azl) ix) Nuftah Al-Ghayb Al-Ghaydh (the key of an embryo’s future) From germinal fluids to implanation اللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ مَا تَحْمِلُ كُلُّ أُنثَى وَمَا تَغِيضُ الأَرْحَامُ وَمَا تَزْدَادُ وَكُلُّ شَيْءٍ عِنْدَهُ بِمِقْدَارٍ (الرعد: 8). “Allah knows what every female womb bears and what is penetrating into the womb or decreasing and what is increasing (Al-Ghaydh) “. (Surah Ar-Ra ‘ad, Ayah 8) And Allah’s messenger (Prophet Mohammad, Allah bless him and give him peace) said: None knows the future of what is decreasing or penetrating into the wombs except Allah”. (Sahih Al- Bukhari: Kitab Al- Tafsir) The above Surah and Hadith can be taken to consider the period of early embryogenesis from insemination to early implantation of the fertilised ovum. The key word in both the Ayah and Hadith is “Ghaydhwhich could mean: (1) Passing through or penetration of fluid into depth, like water going into the depth of the earth (1D, 4/405: 2D, 7/202: 3D, 368: 4D, 7/405: 5D, 5/64). (2) Decrease in amount (Ref: 1D, 4/405: 2S, 7/202: 3D, 368: 4D, 7/405: 5D, 5/64). The above Ayah and Hadith refer to something which is passing through the female generative system, which is decreasing and or increasing in size and it is something whose future at this stage is known to no one except “Allah”. This “something” evidently is a reference to the male and female generative materials and later to the zygote. When different meanings of the key word, “Al-Ghaydh” are applied to the Ayah and Hadith above, these evidently point to the development processes taking place up to the stage of early implantation. It is scientifically proven that of millions of sperms in the seminal fluid usually only one takes part in the process of fertilisation of the ovum, and only one ovum, out of hundreds of thousands, is extracted from the ovary. So “Al-Ghaydh” will mean a decrease in the amount of the Germinal materials used in fertilisation. When “Al-Ghaydh” is taken to mean “passing through”, it will cover the period of the journey the ovum takes to reach the uterus and during this period the ovum will be penetrated by the sperm to form the zygote. It is clear from the above that the word “Al-Ghaydh” had been very aptly and correctly selected and we shall not be far from being correct to say that the “Al-Ghaydh” stage of development will cover from insemination to early implantation. The above Hadith says that only “Allah” knows about the future of the conceptus in the stage of “Al-Ghaydh”. It is quite evident that at an early stage of development like this, there is no way of knowing about the future of the conceptus. But scientifically, we know that soon after the zygote is formed, the future and identity of the new being has been determined and this is known to Allah only. There are several steps in determining the identity of a new individual. At the time of ejaculation several million spermatozoa are deposited in the vagina, adjacent to the uterine cervix. This fluid contains several hundred million spermatozoa, most of which are capable of uniting with an ovum to initiate a new life. The total volume of semen is reduced by the passage of some of the spermatozoa into the cervical canal in the direction of a potential ovum. This is the first step after insemination in determining the nature of the future embryo. The female’s counterpart in deciding the future embryo’s nature occurs when from among the thousands of ova available in the ovaries, only one is passed into the oviduct. This is the second step of the several hundred spermatozoa reaching the ovum only one will penetrate the female gamete’s cytoplasmic membrane and this is a third step in deciding the nature of the future person and it too is covered by the stage of Ghaydh. As a result of fertilisation the dominant and recessive genes possessed by the parental chromosomes establish the new individual’s genetic potential. Through all of these reproductive and development events the future expression of inherited potential is largely decided and though they themselves are generally not directly observable, their effects will become evident to all, later in life. The Hadith says that the key to the embryo’s future is decided, at Ghaydh. According to the Hadith, the keys of the unknown are five which no one knows but Allah, and one of these unknowns is the future of the stage of “Al-Ghaydh”. “The keys of the unknown are five, no one knows them but Allah; no one knows what is in the future except Allah, and no one knows the future of what in the wombs are decreasing or what penetrating into them, except Allah”. (Sahib AI-Bukhari: Kitab Al- Taf’ir) From the above ayah it is understood that the relationship of the conceptus with the uterus is in two stages: Al-Ghaydh and Izdiad Al-Rahem, the preamble of the above Hadith tells us that the key to the future of the conceptus is decided at Al-Ghaydh and that no one but Allah knows it. The stage of Al-Ghaydh can be taken to include “Al-Harth” or implantation. x) Al-Harth (implantation) It is stated in the Qur’an: نِسَاؤُكُمْ حَرْثٌ لَكُمْ فَأْتُوا حَرْثَكُمْ أَنَّى شِئْتُمْ وَقَدِّمُوا ِلأَنفُسِكُمْ وَاتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَاعْلَمُوا أَنَّكُمْ مُلاَقُوهُ وَبَشِّرْ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ (البقرة: 223). “Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how you will”. (Surah Al-Baqarah, Ayah 223) In the above Ayah is a description which is borne out by present day knowledge of the passage of Nutfah. Its entrance in the mother’s genital tract during coitus is similar to the process of ploughing and planting. The entry of the sperms into the uterus is similar to the planting of seeds in the land. The entry of the sperm into the ovum also carries meanings similar to ploughing and planting. And finally the implantation of the fertilised ovum (Nutfah-Amshaj) is also similar to the planting of a seed. Harth is one word which had conveyed to Islamic scholars centuries ago the meaning and wisdom they had understood (4D, 2/134: 5D, 1/614: 1A, 2/231: 2A, 1/91: 7A, 1/335: 19A, 1/124). These meanings have also been confirmed by modern science in minute detail which the ancient scholars could not understand 7.2 The second phase of embryo development This is subdivided as follows i) The ‘Alaqah stage ثُمَّ خَلَقْنَا النُّطْفَةَ عَلَقَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْعَلَقَةَ مُضْغَةً فَخَلَقْنَا الْمُضْغَةَ عِظَامًا فَكَسَوْنَا الْعِظَامَ لَحْمًا ثُمَّ أَنشَأْنَاهُ خَلْقًا آخَرَ فَتَبَارَكَ اللَّهُ أَحْسَنُ الْخَالِقِينَ (المؤمنون: 14). “Then (thumm) We made the drop into an ‘Alaqah”. (Surah Al-Mu ‘minun, Ayah 14) In Arabic the word ‘Alaqah in fact has several meanings; something which clings or a suspended thing (Ref: 7B, 5/440: 1D, 4/125: 2D, 4/1529: 3D, 343: 4D, 10/267: 5D, 7/20) a leech-like structure (Ref: 9A, 3/242: 20A, 2/281: 7B, 5/139: 2D, 4/1529: 3D, 343: 4D, 10/267) Amazingly each of these terms can be applied to the developing embryo with stunning precision. All of these terms encompassed by the word ‘Alaqah describe the appearance of the embryo as well as its relationship with the womb. From the discussion below it becomes clear that the embryo resembles a primitive multicellular organism which is attached to a host and feeding on its blood. a) something which clings Modern science informs us that once the egg has been fertilised in the Fallopian tube it undergoes successive divisions to form a ball like structure of 12-16 cells by the third day. This structure is called a blastocyst and it reaches the uterus in 4 to 5 days. The blastocyst then lies free in the uterine secretions for a further 2 days. About a week after fertilisation the blastocyst begins to attach and implant into the uterine wall. By the 11th to 12th day it is completely embedded in the uterine wall. At this stage chorionic villosities begin to develop like roots in the soil, these draw nourishment from the uterus necessary for the blastocyst’s growth. These formations cover the whole blastocyst and make it literally cling to the uterus. By the end of the second week implantation is complete. Inside the blastocyst the embryo is anchored to the wall of the chorionic cavity by a connecting stalk. Hence, these different ways of clinging and attachment seem to represent the most dominant features from day 7 to 21, and are perfectly described in the Qur’anic description by the word ‘Alaqah. For greater detail see S. Hussain (1986) ‘Al-‘Alaq:the mystery explored, Ark Journal, London, pp. 31-36. b) a suspended thing The 3 week old embryo inside the blastocyst which is embedded in the uterine wall is seen to be suspended in the chorionic cavity by means of the connecting stalk and is surrounded by the amniotic cavity and the yolk sac. Therefore, the term ‘Alaqah accurately describes the suspended embryo after it has been implanted. c) a leech-like structure The word ‘Alaqah can also be translated as ‘leech like structure’. The leech is a elongated pear shaped creature which thrives on blood sucking. At this stage of development the embryo from top view does bear a resemblance to a leech. This resemblance is even more marked if the 24 day old embryo is seen from the side. It is also interesting to note that the embryo is now dependent on the maternal blood for its nutrition and behaves very much like a leech!. (For greater detail see Moore, KL. ‘A scientists interpretation of references to embryology in the Qur’an.’ Journal of the Islamic Medical Association of US and Canada, 1986, 18:15, and Moore, KL. and Azzindani, AMA.: “The Developing Human, Clinically Orientated Embryology, With Islamic Additions”. 3rd Ed., Dar Al-Qiblah and WB Saunders). In conclusion, whichever of the above terms are used to translate the word ‘Alaqah they are all stunningly accurate descriptions of the embryo at this stage in it’s development as confirmed by modern science. There is a gap of a few days between the stages of implantation (Nutfah) and ‘Alaqah and this period is clearly explained by the above Ayah: The word “Thumm” in Arabic is a conjunction indicating a time lag and the Ayah will, therefore, mean that after some time we created the “Nutfah” into ‘Alaqah. ii) Al-Mudghah External appearance The Qur’an describes the embryo as evolving into a Mudghah, which means something which has been chewed (especially a piece of meat) or which has the appearance of having been chewed (Ref: 1D, 5/330: 5D, 6/430: 2D, 4/1326). This seemingly crude description is in fact quite accurate: after the fertilised egg lodges itself in the uterus, it begins to receive its first nutrients and energy from its mother. Consequently, it begins to grow especially rapidly, and after a week or two it looks like a ragged piece of meat to the naked eye. This effect is enhanced by the development of small buds and protrusions, which will eventually grow into complete organs and limbs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CidanSultan Posted July 27, 2014 How are the two concepts similar mushrik did you even read gallens theory of embryology before posting your googles search without reading first answer my question how are the two concepts similar ??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Allyourbase Posted July 27, 2014 You could have linked to your source instead of quoting to that lengths: http://www.islamicwritings.org/quran/medical-miracles/does-the-quran-plagiarise-ancient-greek-embryology/ No need to waste space on copy/paste battles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xabad Posted July 27, 2014 <cite> @Allyourbase said:</cite> You could have linked to your source instead of quoting to that lengths: http://www.islamicwritings.org/quran/medical-miracles/does-the-quran-plagiarise-ancient-greek-embryology/ No need to waste space on copy/paste battles the sol editor is not working. your right copy/paste battles are pointless espcially when someone is not sincere like dr kenney. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CidanSultan Posted July 27, 2014 An atheist and a polytheist who made an allegation against the Quran they said this gallen guy is were the Quran got its theories of embryology. We have presented to you both sides and both concepts tell us how they are similar ....?? Stop making an allegation and then when the truth is presented running away...answer our question. Simple Atheist and polytheists....hahahahah. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoctorKenney Posted July 27, 2014 <cite> @xabad said:</cite> the sol editor is not working. your right copy/paste battles are pointless espcially when someone is not sincere like dr kenney. Listen. You're arguing from a point of ignorance/arrogance so your arguments are already devoid of any logic or sincerity. There's a reason why I don't debate you, because I don't seek to convince you. You've blatantly lied here on this forum a number of times, and we've seen the type of person you are. Which is why I don't ever want to explain myself to the likes of you. But here's the link you're asking for. Took me a while to find it since I couldn't remember the name of the video: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoctorKenney Posted July 27, 2014 <cite> @CidanSultan said:</cite> An atheist and a polytheist who made an allegation against the Quran they said this gallen guy is were the Quran got its theories of embryology. We have presented to you both sides and both concepts tell us how they are similar ....?? Stop making an allegation and then when the truth is presented running away...answer our question. Simple Atheist and polytheists....hahahahah. It's funny because they actually provide not a SINGLE shred of evidence for their allegations. And then when they're refuted, they come back a month later with the same arguments. And they repeat their SAME old stuff over and over. There's no end to these people. I remember one time, Hamza Tzortzis (a British Muslim Speaker) absolutely destroyed Lawrence Krauss (an American Atheist Physicist) in a debate. I remember watching the debate last year, and it was so one-sided it was unbelievable. You know what happened after? Like a month later, Lawrence Krauss went ahead and made the SAME old arguments against Islam and against the existence of God. It was like he had amnesia and he completely forgot that the Muslim guy refuted him completely in that debate There's no end to these people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CidanSultan Posted July 27, 2014 Both polytheism and atheism can be discredited. In the case of polytheism the main argument is we need a vessel that can be the intermediate between us and God because we can not have that direct relation with God..... Answer: why do you need an Intermediator between you and God when you can have a direct relationship with him. How is a monkey or an elephant going to be an intermediate between you and God when they themselves are crated. Atheists are the worst I prefer polytheist to athiests an atheist hides behind science and reason yet they lack reason and basic science. Firstly nothing in the quran contradict science it is all scientific fact... Secondly do you know what the statistical probability chances are for the Big Bang, for the creation of the universe, for the creation of our galaxy, for the placement of earth not to far from the soon or to close for the existence of the moon, for the season, for te weather, for water, for the sense, for the body, for the vegetation etc..... The statistical chances of that happening are in the millions. Another problem with atheism is its common fundemntal core that something came out of nothing. Seriously..... And according to these two groups of people we are the crazy ones Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xabad Posted July 27, 2014 <cite> @DoctorKenney said:</cite> Listen. You're arguing from a point of ignorance/arrogance so your arguments are already devoid of any logic or sincerity. There's a reason why I don't debate you, because I don't seek to convince you. You've blatantly lied here on this forum a number of times, and we've seen the type of person you are. Which is why I don't ever want to explain myself to the likes of you. But here's the link you're asking for. Took me a while to find it since I couldn't remember the name of the video: Oh my, this is what you call debunking or destruction. he is just befuddled like you. debating you is like talking wont get us anywhere. enjoy your eid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CidanSultan Posted July 27, 2014 You spew nonsense and then are not willing to argue your case you haven't even answered any of the earlier questions we asked you based on your own allegations. No substance, no intellect just pure BS in human form. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites