Fetullah Gulen schools in Somalia

[Hawdian]

Does any xamari solers known about fetullah Gulen and his movement the hikmit, also which schools they run in Somalia Moqadisho and if these schools teach in turkish languages. Also what are you opinion about the gulen movement in general, maa diin islam oo ahlu sunnah baa mise turkish isku wax qasaya.Yanci fa,ido meey utahey ardey somali iney wax ka bartaan daad lee waxan nahy yurubian muslim ax oo secularist ax.

[Tallaabo]

I like Christain schools they are very disciplined. I attended one and loved it, even their gospel music(which is so wrong).

[Hawdian]

^ good for you but im looking for information about fetullah Gulen and their schools and projects in Moqadishu Somalia.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

I would be surprised if there are gulen schools in Somalia. Gulen is no friend of the PM Erdogdan. Idk if he would let him get in on his Somalia project.

[galbeedi]

Hawdian, they are Sunni Muslims and their Madhab is Xanafi. As most modern Islamic school of thoughts they originate from the founder, Mr. Gullen who lives in Pennsylvania,USA. I believe they will be loyal followers of Mr. Gullen, just like the " akhwaan Muslimeen" are followers of the Egypt, " Wahhabis follow the Kingdom of Saudi Royal Family and Tabliiq are followers of Pakistan based movement. What they do not get is that Islam arrived in the Somali shores before it reached Medina, Egypt, Pakistan, Turkey or these backward Arabs of the gulf.

 

Somalia, who never fully experienced the Islamic civilization earlier century and the western civilization brought by european colonizers are empty vessels that could be filled with any new ideology. Also the Wahabi chauvinistic culture which originate in the bedouin tradition of the gulf could fit very well with the arrogant and control freak Somalis from the central regions, nomadic tribes of Bakool and Gedo region. You may even find some Wahhabi extremists in Togdheer region of Somaliland. You could hardly find a Wahabi or extremist murderers in the civilized provinces where Islamic tradition is alive before the arrival of the Wahhabis in the eighties and nineties. I do not want to generalize but between Garoowe and Hiiraan, both the Cusmaaniyiin (Ottaman) civilization and the Western(Italian and british), did not fully developed in those regions.

 

you can easily see the difference between the agricultural and advanced Arabs of Iraq and Sham, from the backward gulf kingdoms who are empty sand dunes with petro Dollars. There are no civilizations at all in these countries. If you want to see an Arab culture you go to cairo and Egypt.

 

Any way, A country with all these competing ideologies , it is difficult to find harmony. Mix that with Talaabo, Apophis and others who are the other extreme.

 

[DoctorKenney]

Galbeedi, if this is the case, then Somalia could have separate Federal States which can apply their own judicial system, similar to the United Arab Emirates.

 

In UAE, what's legal in Dubai could be illegal in Sharjah. And what's legal in Abu Dhabi could be illegal in Ajman. And so on and so on. It's a very loose union of separate, autonomous Emirates.

 

Some Emirates are more liberal than others.

 

Somalis from a certain region have a completely different mindset compared to Somalis of another region. And reforming the mindset of a people could take a generation or two. Which is why a loose union of Somali federal states (emirates) wouldn't be such a bad idea.

[galbeedi]

oil wealth makes it attractive. Local customs are important. It is difficult to reconcile the Mudug culture with those from Shabeelaha Hoose. Since we love freedom just like the Americans , we may even copy some of their regional based governments. In Texas, they say do not mess with Texas. If you murder somebody they will give you the death penalty, while in Oregon or in New England they will keep you in jail for few years.

 

The Wahaabi culture suits well the Galgaduud, Mudug, Gedo, Togdheer and Nugaal and Bakool societies. It can not survive in Jawhar, Hargeisa, Borama or Marka.If you study carefully those who brought the Wahabi movement to Somalia originate from central Somalia. Since militarism and dictatorship could not work in 21st century, they shifted to religion. " qorigii intay yare dhigeen ayey Kitaab qori la socdo soo qaateen".

 

Having said that I believe the federal system should bring regions and people together not push them aside. Today's federal system will lead eventual breakup of the country. . Each one has his own army, intelligence, foreign policy and have already attached themselves with foreign powers in the region. Those who are in position of leadership are not doing anything that is even close to a united country. Have you ever heard anyone calling for a national army. Why not demand that these members of parliament each, bring 100 men from their region and recruit to the army. You can't have an army only from those who are president, prime minister and speaker of parliament. C/laahi Yusud, Geedi and Aadan Madoobe did the same thing ten years ago. These are tribal militia not national army.

 

If the trend that we see today continues, there will be four or five semi independent countries. Did you hear about Abkhazia and ostesian republics who are only recognized by Russia as de facto states who separated from Georgia, or other minor ones in Moldova. It could happen. All the ingredients that fuel that kind of breakup are present.

 

Look at Ethiopia for the first ten years since 1990 we were begging her to stop arming warlords and criminals, now we are begging her to come and help us defeat the symptoms they created.

 

I will conclude that "il Dittore" Osman may even get his wish, his own country.

 

 

[Homunculus]

^^^^

 

I hate to make comparisons but many loosely built federations evolved and became modern federal states with a strong central authority. The US and Germany started as a group states or kingdoms joined by a an extremely relaxed federation and look at them now. Somalia is a failed state, we would be lucky if we have a country in few years if the situation persists, if we become a collection semi independent federal states that would be a victory of common sense.

[DoctorKenney]

Yeah exactly Homunculus.

 

In 1800, the United States was a small group of loosely united Federal States organized under a single Constitution. The people of Georgia couldn't stand the ones who lived in New York, and the people of North Carolina couldn't stand the people from Pennsylvania, etc.

 

It's only after a couple generations, when the old people died off, and a new generation of Americans arose, that the concept of Federalism became meaningless in America in that context, and now they all see themselves as "American". Regardless of whether they came from California, or Texas, or Illinois. They're all "Americans".

 

 

The same could happen for Somalis. It doesn't matter if we have a loosely organized Union. Within a couple generations, we'll totally forget about these borders and start to see each other as one nation again. Since when did Somalis EVER care about borders? We have Somalis sitting in coffee shops in Seattle, the same way they're sitting in coffee shops in Addis Ababa. The Somalis in London have much of the exact same routine as Somalis living in Guangzhou, CHINA. We behave the same regardless of what flag we're living under. And we don't give a damn about borders. That's one thing we've learned about the Civil War.

 

A loosely organized Union under a Federal Constitution would be a much better solution than this Centralist Crap that many in Mogadishu are pushing for. It'll only further divide the country instead of uniting it. If it's one thing we've learned from the 1960-1991 period, it's that Somalis are very independent and autonomous people who hate to take orders from a distant capital city.

 

Let us have a system of government which conforms to our temperament.

[galbeedi]

Doctorkenney, you are correct on the border thing. Even today, the border with Ethiopia doesn't even have check points in many places. Also Somalis hate to take order from some distant place. The American colonies did not have to fear a neighbor swallowing, since the british threat disappeared in early 1800.

 

That loose union might be the best solution. The difficult thing is can we reach their or survive . One thing that does not work is centralized union. In the late fifties and early sixties, there were no misery, hunger or food shortages. Livestock had a value, agriculture was there. Every thing collapsed after the formation national government. regional and national administration suck every thing like a vacuum, while giving back nothing. Do you remember the municipal tax collector waiting at the gate of the city to tax milk and firewood, it is still going on.

 

How can you make these federal regions effective and efficient?. They do not see themselves as leaders who are given the responsibilities to make life better for their citizens, but they want to be a big fish in a small pond.

 

I agree, the centralized Mogadishu based government became a vessel to get foreign aid in the name of Somali government.

 

How can we implement this loose union without being swallowed by our enemies?,

 

 

[DoctorKenney]

Okay I'm gonna say this, you could disagree with me, but I'll say it anyway:

 

I think implementing a loose Union can be achieved even without having to live with the threat of being swallowed up by our enemies.

 

The Somali NFD in Kenya is overwhelmingly a Somali region, despite the fact that it's extremely underpopulated and consists of almost ONE THIRD of Kenya's total territory. The same can be said of the Somali Region of Ethiopia. It's over 95% Somali. Even though these territories are HUGE, they're bigger than some European States! Even though these Somalis are technically living under the authority of an Ethiopian Government. They still manage to fend off foreigners and maintain their ethnic homogeneity.

 

And it's because we're a very xenophobic people. We may not like each other, but we can't stand foreigners either. And the last thing Somalis would want to tolerate would be foreigners being on our land.

 

If Puntlanders and Jubbalanders and Khaatumites and others want to deal with their own territories the way they see fit, then that's fine. They can have whatever legal and economic system they choose. It really is their choice. But if each region contributes a portion of their soldiers to the National Army, then that could do a lot in fostering some sort of national unity. If we have a System where the President of Somalia has to rotate between different regions. So that during 1 Presidential term, the President must come from Puntland. And then Khatumo gets a turn with the President. And then Jubbaland gets a turn. And so on and so on.

 

This could be a totally temporary situation. At least until peace is restored long enough for people to fill a genuine sense of nationhood again. Until there will arise a new generation of Somalis with NO memories of the civil war period, and who have nothing but optimism for the future of the nation. Somalia has a population where 45% of the people are under the age of 15. The average Somali is only 17 years old. We're a very young country. We can easily change as long as peace is maintained in the country. South Korea was a poor country with extremely corrupt Generals masquerading as politicians back in the 1960's. Today, South Korea is extremely prosperous and they have genuine, educated politicians who are running the country's affairs.

 

Men such as Silaanyo, Madoobe, Hiraale, Qoslaaye, Indhacade are all old men who will soon die and be relegated to the dustbin of history.

 

This whole loosely organized Union could work as long as we have a single Unified Military, where soldiers are recruited from every town and village of Somalia.

 

And as long as Somalis maintain their xenophobic attitude towards foreigners, then I don't think we'd have anything to worry about in such a situation.

[galbeedi]

Probably our fierce independent loving culture is the one that saved us from being swallowed by others or occupied during the colonial era. My only fear is we may get used to being small enclaves with insignificant political power in the world stage. In late nineteenth century we owned one of the largest land masses in the African continent and the longest coast. From outskirt of Dire Dawa in the cwest , to Garissa, NFD in the south, and northern corner of the red sea .

 

It is sobering assessment when you see how far we traveled and where we ended the journey. Doctorkenney, I think your statement is a obering acceptance of the reality. We no longer hope that an all powerful leader will bring the nation together or even build prosperous Somalia. For the last 14 years since Carta, In Djibouti we always thought that the selected President will usher a new down. That dream is gone now. The mistrust and fear among the people has increased not diminished. A big and booming Mogadishu may not even resolve the future..

 

Khaatumo and others have every right to decide their own destiny. In the nomadic tradition , unless your camels drink first ," Ilaa uu xoolihiisu cabo oo uu fulo waa in aad sugtaa". everyone else have to wait. If there is an orphan family who have two goats to give water, they have to wait until those who have the 300 camels finish. It may even take two days. " Geel jiruhu ma garanyo in uu yidhaahdo waar bal Islaantan labada neef wadata biyaha ha waraabsatee aan u dayno". That same culture relocated into the Urban environment. That is why it is difficult for the guy in Mogadishu to dig well in Qardho, or the Burco guy, to allow development in Awdal. Remember the money or the development equipment That he wants to keep for himself and his Tribe is paid by somebody else. The issue of having common defence will be also difficult. Regions would prefer having their own defence. People are literally begging the leaders to dig water wells or small fishing port. There are no local tax base at all.

 

Big government means people on the mercy of others.

 

On the issue of common defence, it could be even difficult. Mistrust and fear may not even make to build the army. Look at the gulf countries, they have the resource to do but do not trust each other.

 

Anyway, we need open debate. We no longer accept a Mogadishu based solutions, or people enriching themselves in the name os state. I want my local community to collect taxes and build local capacity. We no longer need to beg a so called big fish moves like emperors.

 

 

 

[DoctorKenney]

But a loosely organized Union of Federal States, where we have a Libertarian free-market economic system could be a better solution. It could alleviate our suffering in the immediate short-term. As long as there is some semblance of peace, Somali businessmen could operate in Somalia and start businesses, giving employment to the local population and increasing prosperity.

 

Countries like Congo, Zambia, Uganda and others are places where Somali businessmen have entered and invested, even though these countries aren't very stable, and there's no real sense of "nationhood" amongst some of these nations. The Congo just came out of a war where 5 million people died. But Somali businessmen still entered those countries, because it was peaceful, and employed thousands of people and increased prosperity for everyone. If these same businessmen invested in Somalia itself, and if each businessman focuses on his tribal homeland, then that could benefit the country as a whole. If an MJ wants to invest and build up Puntland, then it's up to him. The same goes for a native Khatuumite or a native Hiiraan resident and so on and so on.

 

If Somalis don't like each other, the least we can do is compete with each other to see who can build up the best Federal State. We could channel our dislike towards each other in a healthy manner.

 

If we have a Military, where they can recruit soldiers equally from different regions of the country, then building a common defence wouldn't be too hard. They could impose quotas where the Army has to have 20% Puntlanders, 10% Khatumites, 15% Hiiiraaners and so on and so on. If the UN Arms Embargo is lifted from Somalia and we start purchasing helicopters and tanks, and start paying Somali soldiers a very very high salary, then recruiting soldiers would be fairly easy. A salary of 1000 dollars a month funded directly from the USA or the EU could be achieved very easily. We have a large population of unemployed men already. The issue shouldn't be recruitment at all.

 

Somalis have a deep cultural problem, and resolving this cultural problem could take 50 years. But this could be a band-aid solution until things gradually resolve themselves

[SomaliPhilosopher]

Such discussion is futile unless you are at the table with UNPOS and IGAD I wouldn't waste your breath Doctor

[DoctorKenney]

I'm wondering who is it exactly that's whispering in Qoslaye's ears? Who's giving him advice?

 

How is it that this President....manages to be an utter failure in everything he involves himself in?

 

You'd think he'd have the sensibilities to stabilize his country while enriching himself. EVEN IF HE TOOK government money and enriched himself, as long as he stabilized the nation.....I wouldn't even oppose him.

 

Most Somalis wouldn't complain at all.

 

The good outweighs the bad.

 

But he can't even do that.