Anti Federalist Are Spoilers

[Dr_Osman]

I am quite suprised after watching a number of federalism debates on youtube that there are people who are still anti federalism. It's absolutely shocking, what is wrong with these people? are they simply blind or are they just being spoilers?

 

There is absolutely no question federalism is the way forward we clearly see the benefit for such system in Puntland which in retrospect was the least developed region in Somalia. If Puntland can do it, there is not much excuse for anywhere else.

 

I have only one question to ask centralists, if centralism is so good, why after 20 centralism conference nothing eventuated? do we need to reach 50 failed conferences on centralism before you all give up such dreams? I don't understand their reasoning other then they are just being spoilers on a system that make sense after a nation has had a civil war, that has worked in parts of the country, and maintains the unity of country. With federalism the country has never had this sort of hope before, you remember all the previous centralist govt post 91, none of them came to close to the level the country is at today.

 

The centralist need to forget if a clan has a bigger land then you do, that wouldn't change even if a centralist govt is introduced because democratic parliaments are formed thru mp's representing their degaan. If we are using 91 borders, no matter what form of govt takes shape, clans with more degaans will have greater representation. It's just how it is. Some argue for new borders but that will mean everyone gets new degaans so it's always going to be the same thing. Somalis need to accept what you have rather then seeking what is not yours. We wasted 20 years on that and nothing has changed.You should put to use what you do have because by the time others are finishing fighting for what is not theirs, you will be the only one left standing and will end ruling the nation because your region will be more developed and politically mature. These centralist are really digging themselves a hole.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Federalism based on clan will only further fuel the civil war , because federalism based on regions is oke based on majority rule tribes will alienate other tribes result further distrust and the continuation of the Civil war.

[gooni]

Fedaraalka soomaaliya maahan mid ku salaysan waaqac ama run ama dadku fahamsanyhiin idacadahaa laga baahiyay dawladda fedaraalaka soomaaliya dhawr iyo labaatan sano iskool xirnaa laguma baran karo federal

 

 

waa in la sameeyaa xuduud goboleedyada, waa inay is doortaan siday isku raaci lahaayeen, waa in la sameeyaa ciidamo ka kooban goboladoo dhan kuna filan inay arin kastoo laysku qabsado sharciga waafajiyaan, waa in geella iyo dadka biyo ku filan loo helaa oo la roob doonaa, waa in puntland noo sheegtaa halka xuduudkeedu ka bilowdo iyo meeshuu ku dhamaado maadaama jacaylka federaalka laga furfuri la'yahay

 

 

Wararka baydhabo ka imaanaya sida xaaji soo tabiyay waxaa laysku haystaa fedaral lix iyo sadex ciidamo itoobiyaana baa ku kala dhex jira sida muuqatana kan itobia taageerto yaa fedaraalka saxdaa noqonaya baarlamaankuna waa ansixinayaa sidii kii ka horeeyay oo kenya noo samaysay,ama si kale hadii loo dhigo madaxweyneyaal laga xukumo nayrobi iyo adis,wacyi gelinta iyo dhaantadana ku fiican

 

fedaraal waxaa noqon kara dad aan jifo hoose isku qabsan mid korana aqoon somaalina maahan.

[xabad]

<cite>

@Xaaji Xunjuf

said:</cite>

Federalism based on clan will only further fuel the civil war

, because federalism based on regions is oke based on majority rule tribes will alienate other tribes result further distrust and the continuation of the Civil war.

 

....but nationhood based on clan will usher in peace and prosperity. this snake is too thick to spot the irony of his ridiculous assertions. waryaa miyaad qafiitay. cut back on the qaad will ya.

[Homunculus]

We don't have to argue the same thing over and over again. The world is tired of Somalis and their inability to govern themselves, if this federalism experiment fails due to the S"F"G going against its mandate to form federal states and its desire for a centralized country then I expect the fracturing of this country into mini manageable countries. You don't have to look far (if this community is any indication)to see that Somalis don't trust each other and would rather deal with neighbouring countries than their supposed countrymen, a federal system to me is the lesser of two evils and it will take years to see it through.

[galbeedi]

Since Somalia is guided by the United Nations road map, the Federal issue is already out of the box. As they say, the horses have left the barn. Dib loogama noqonayo. The main issue is what kind of federalism is suitable for Somalia. The way it is implemented at this moment will create problems for the future cohesiveness of the country. Nin walba intuu doono ayuu jeexanayaa.

 

Ethiopia was an empire, a collection of different ethnic groups conquered by the Amhara led empire in the late nineteen and twentieth century. It has three choices. first, to disintegrate like the former Yugoslavia on ethnic line where every group will have their own state. The Amhara, Tigray, Somali, Oromo, Danakil and so on. Second, they could be a pluralistic democracy where different ethnic groups can co-exist wit open federalism. The third one is to keep the status quo and rule by force while allowing the ethnic groups to be supervised by an appointed emissary with a false federalism. In Fact, like all empires, Ethiopia should have been dissolved long time ago.

 

Since tribal identity is becoming synonymous with ethnic identity, the road map people copied the Ethiopian federal system based on ethnic lines. That is why we are having Presidents rather than governors. Dr, Osman said that certain tribes by nature will have larger land masses. Of course most regions are dominated by certain tribes, but that alone will not qualify someone to be federal. " Laba gobol iyo wax ka badan" will not be be the only main criteria.

 

As i wrote in this page, what you are creating should not be a recipe for future conflicts. It should enhance self rule, economic growth and cohesiveness of the communities. For example Puntland as one of the functioning federal states must fill some conditions to be a viable entity.

 

you can not dismember the Mudug region and join along clan lines. If you add Galdogob in Puntland and leave Hobyo , Xaradheere and half of Gaalkacayo to Galmudug, that is demarcation by clan lines. Both the Galmudug and part of galgaduud should join puntland. If you can not share anything with the brother who lives in Baraxley, Gaalkacayo; how can you share a country with him.

 

Since we all agree on some kind of federalism, we must have a real debate and discussion on what kind of federalism which suits the Somali people. We can not accept five presidents whose security and existence are guaranteed by neighbouring countries including the federal president.

[Tillamook]

Federalism is the way forward for our country. Albeit a slow and difficult process, but in the end it will result in the political salvation of our peoples wherever we may be.

[galbeedi]

If I were to demarcate possible federal states of Somalia including Somaliland, here is how I would Have designed.

 

!- South West Region: Jubbas, Gedo, Bay & Bakool and Lower Shabeele. This region is huge in terms of land mass and resources. It could be the bread basket and the land that feeds all of Somalia. It is one of the most important region for the future food stability and fight against hunger. remember, these people suffer most of famine related issues for the last 20 years. The domination of these region by one single tribe or allying themselves with foreign powers must be avoided, if possible. Both the Bay & Bakool region leaders and the Jubba leaders have shown the tendency to throw their lot either with Ethiopia or Kenya. This must be avoided if we want to build a prosperous free S.west. The powers of these two groups must dilutes for the interest of Somalia.

 

2- Mogadishu will should be the Capital of Somalia. Somalis left in 1991 after they have been forced to leave their homes aftermath of the tribal anarchy. That does not make for those who live there to day, the sole residents of the capital. While the stability and prosperity of Mogadishu is important, the existence of the Somali people are more important than any region of the country. The formation of Somali state should not wait any more for the Capital to be safe. Haday Bahala galeen noqoto, meeshii nabad ah ayaa Caasimada La gayn. Also no one should try to add or join the Capital to anyone of the imaginary federal state. People who live their already have all the advantages of living in the commercial and power center of the country. Hundred of millions are spent in Mogadishu while people have of other regions are starving.

 

3- The Hiiraan region or Central region. This region will comprise Galgaduud, Hiiraan and Shabeelaha dhexe. unlike public perception, These region is inhabited by diverse group of people. The Jareer wayne is one of the largest communities, the Caabudwaaq and Dhuusamareeb, which is mixed communities. While the H community is one of the largest, there are many others who have significant presence. These region will have both agricultural resources and livestock.

 

4- Puntland. Puntland is already ahead from most of the regions I mentioned in terms of administration, order and security, self rule, and have developed a great tradition on power transfer and conflict resolution. Mudug, Nugaal, Bari and Sanaag will form the Puntland state. Gaalkacayo is a commercial hub for the central regions of the country, it must not be divide in to Puntland and Galmudug. The Trouble makers of the Somali republic, traditionally originate from this town. From Aideed to C/laahi Yusuf to Cismaan AAto, are native sons of Gaalkacayo. If these group agree to share a city and brotherhood, then their is a hope. The reason I added Sanaag to puntland is mostly geography and trade. The main cities of Sanaag, like Badhan, Ceerigaabo and Laasqoray have relatively small distance to the main port of Boosaaso. Rather than take the goats, camels and other livestocks of the great grass land of Sanaag to Berbera for a day and half travel, they could reach Boosaaso within four hours or two hours in some towns. Rather than Somaliland Building this huge road from Burco to Ceerigaabo which crosses this colossal golis mountain ranges, it is cheaper to build Ceerigaabo-Boosaaso road. This road would definitely cost hundred of millions to build.

 

5- Togdheer-Sool region. THe people who live in this region have both great rivalry and kinship. As a young man in high school I spent over a month in the city of Burco in 1981. Almost a quarter of the city was inhabited by the Darwish community. They intermarried in large numbers, both in Sool and Togdheer. Of course, the war against the regime in the eighties created certain realities on the ground and a new political realities. Unlike public perception there are people from the east Burco community who live inside large districts of the Sool region. These are some of the fault lines of the Somali conflict which must be resolved by joining these communities who are already connected. Burco is becoming an industrial and commercial hub, while laascaanood could produce great number of livestock exports from the Nugaal valley to Buuhoodle district.

 

6- Awdal- Northwest region. These region will comprise Saaxil(Berbera), Hargeisa, Gabiley, Boorama, Zaylac districts. Like the people of Sool and Togdheer, these regions are intermingled both in terms of commerce and daily life ( way isku tidcan yihiin). There are people from Awdal who have lived in Hargeisa through the ages. The commerce from Hargiesa to Djibouti, Borama and Gabiley continues till to day. Hargeisa will be the headquarters of this region, and I believe life and people will trive. You will have direct commercial Airline connections fro all over Somalia to these region. There will be less bureaucracy on the lives of the citizens. Most of the Taxes and other money that comes to these region will be used for the development rather for security.

 

I believe these can of regions will bring people together, rather than separate them. The names of the leaders of these regions will be governors or Premiers, not presidents.

 

Waa biciid kaan dili doono , laakiin waxa wax waba ka horeeya, Let us defeat Al-shabbav and stabilize the south central Somalia. The process of Somaliland Joining these new federalism is a long one, but at least in my opinion we will have a formula based on Geography, trade and cohesiveness of the people. Finally the right of the Somali citizen to live freely in any region of the country and the right to elect and to be elected should be superceed any system. Remember the individual right is always important than the group rights.

 

 

 

 

 

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Galbeedi Ethiopia is different even though Ethiopians are different in culture and ethnic and religion the country had a strong monarchistic institutions which made sure the ruling elites only change in name but the foundation of the state remain the same. The EPRDF might have carved provinces along ethnic lines but it has a strong grip and a hand in all the affairs of the provinces. In Ethiopia the ERPDF laid siege over the entire country. In Somalia the SFG cant barely walk with out African union troops and all the state institutions were destroyed in 1991.

 

 

Galbeedi as for Somaliland you are right in 1960 there were 2 regions woqoyi galbeed which included todays maroodijeeh and saaxil and awdal and selel and gabiley regions . And togdheer which included sool sanaag and togdheer. there were only 2 regions and the people were living in peace and always felt as one people in Somaliland, despite the many clans living there together.

 

 

Xabad Somaliland works and its more than one clan there are more than 10 different clans living in Somaliland in peace and growing together in Somaliland citizenship is far more important than clan in Somaliland a person from Zeila can live and buy land in Ceerigaabo or caynabo or laascanood and there is no one stopping him because they own the land together, in Somaliland they got rid of clan iyo balayo they only pledge allegiance to the nation

 

 

As for clan federalism its destine to fail in Somalia since large tribes in south central Somalia have no interest in federalism just look at bay and bakool who claim the jubba territories. Reer Mudug cant share one region the hostilities will only take a different course and no one can stop it. Somalia civil war was because a Tribal conflict and tribes refusing to share wealth nor to give in to the other tribes who wanted to conquer the smaller tribes, today nothing has changed only alshabaab came from no where. But the Somalis are still the same full of vengeance and wish to play tit for tat.

[xabad]

Galbeedi, your solution not feasible at all. Why not use the clan boundaries as the state's boundaries and sub divide the bigger clans so that each has its own state. i don't care if we end up a thousand states as long as each clan feels not threatened and in control of its land and the economy deriving from their area.

[xabad]

<cite>

@Xaaji Xunjuf

said:</cite>

 

Xabad Somaliland works and its more than one clan there are more than 10 different clans living in Somaliland in peace and growing together in Somaliland citizenship is far more important than clan

in Somaliland a person from Zeila can live and buy land in Ceerigaabo or caynabo or laascanood and there is no one stopping him because they own the land together, in Somaliland they got rid of clan iyo balayo they only pledge allegiance to the nation

.

 

Stop trolling us please.

 

 

 

 

[galbeedi]

Xabad, what you have raised is a good question . Some clans feel threatened by being under the dominate one. Some provinces would like to be among the old 18 Gobols. to make as many as possible, you must change the current constitution which says: federal sates must be two or more. Some body in Hiiraan, or Awdal or Shabeelaha might one to stand alone. It is an issue.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Federalists will not get what they want and centralists will not get what they want and there wont be a compromise because the Somali civil war has no winner. Winner dictates what kind of model Somalia will have. The 2 region state formation will not work , the Hiiraan clan does not want to be under the Galguduud clan the lower shabelle does not want to be under Banadir , its all about demographics the tribal demographics. Tribal federalism some will lose some will win, Ninki jiri wuxu yidhi kala yaacday Somalidu calanku saarna.

[xabad]

concentrate on your area ta cid kale laguuma dirsan.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

My area where is my area?