Islam and Hsexuality

[Allyourbase]

BTW what happened to our dearest brother DoctorKenny? He conveniently vacated the discussion when the screws were tightened on this case

 

Hope everything is alright ya akhi!

[DoctorKenney]

Ya Akhi, repeating tired-old arguments doesn't equate to "tightening the screws"

 

You made an argument based on your assumption, I provided my rebuttal. And someone else in the thread added a post agreeing with me, so that's all I need to say.

 

Repeat your amateur arguments to those who are willing to address them. But I've said what I needed to say. You've proven your unbelievable ignorance on Islamic Traditions, and I don't feel like I want to play the role of Teacher on this forum.

 

You'll believe what you want to believe anyway, and are predisposed to think a certain way. So there's no reasoning with the likes of you

 

P.S. Ignorance mixed with Arrogance is a fatal combination ya "akhi"....so I suggest you lay off that behavior if you want to be taken seriously in the future.

[DoctorKenney]

People, there's no reasoning with the likes of a coward who refuses to acknowledge his mistakes, and then goes against the universal understanding of a Quranic Verse so he could fit in his perverted interpretation of it.

 

The Quran clearly states in multiple verses that fornication is an indecent act and a major sin. So anyone with a working brain would know that Prophet Lot was offering nothing except marriage. The Quran doesn't have to explicitly mention the word "marriage" when that is the understanding of the verse when you read the Quran in it's original Arabic.

 

Read any chapter of the Quran in English. There are brackets inserted in places where the translation would lose its intended meanings. There's even a term for that called "lost in translation". The Arabic language, and even the English language, has so much nuance and deep meanings and connotations, that explicitly saying certain words is sometimes unnecessary. Anyone who knows at least 2 different languages can testify to that. Anyone who reads the Quran in Arabic, Somali or English would know that Prophet Lot was offering marriage.

 

There's no point in continuing this discussion any longer. Read the Quran yourself. Read Surah 15 and Surah 11 for yourself.

 

Because AllYourBase and Xabad will say whatever they want, ignore universal Islamic guidelines (such as the prohibition of indecency and fornication) just to make a point. There's no reasoning with these braindead clowns.

 

Now watch AllYourBase reply to me with a long-winded arrogant post, repeating the same thing. Repeating the exact same argument with the whole "You didn't answer my post" claim. Don't say I didn't warn you people.

[DoctorKenney]

AllYourBase, Remember how you ran away recently when you couldn't answer any questions regarding your outlook on the world and the parameters with which you use to judge the outside world?

 

Remember how you stuttered when you realized that you had to answer actual questions, and not copying/pasting material from other websites?

 

It felt weird didn't it? Thinking on your own. Bet it was the first time you did so huh? You were so used to copying/pasting other arguments, regardless of how ridiculous they sounded, because it was your easy way out, wasn't it dearest AllYourBase?

 

Here is what I said earlier:

 

 

 

BTW AllYourBase don’t expect us to forget a couple of months ago when you were asked to elaborate on your world-view, which could then be analysed on whether it’s credible or not, and whether it can be used as a benchmark to judge past and present societies. And whether this world-view is philosophically consistent, and can provide objective (and universal) moral values.

 

You couldn’t answer it. You disappeared from the Forum. Because you don’t know what you’re doing

 

You’re an Amateur. And until you’re able to fulfil that task than I’m not obligated to answer anything you ask me. You’re like a man who wears a mask and then calls others ugly

 

 

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@Khayr

said:</cite>

You made a strong statement that implies acceptance

of something that the deen is explicit about

How is the deen explicit about homosexuality when there is no clear cut condemnation of it in the Quran?

[DoctorKenney]

Tallaabo be reasonable bro. Homosexuality is at the very least as bad as fornication between an unmarried man and woman. So how can it be considered okay?

 

Unless you want to go the route that "gay marriage" is permitted......although it's very clear that it clearly isn't okay. It isn't up to you to define what the parameters of marriage are

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@Khayr

said:</cite>

Two consenting males? So who is the consenter and the consented?

 

How did you come up with such a vastly different interpretation of the story of Nabi Lut عليه السلام ?

Two consenting adults mean two consenting adults; there is no distinction between them. My interpretation of this story is just as valid as those interpretations of the so-called scholars who insert their own "understanding" into the sacred verses of the Holy Quran and pass them on as "what Allah really meant" to the unsuspecting masses.

[Tallaabo]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

Tallaabo be reasonable bro. Homosexuality is at the very least as bad as fornication between an unmarried man and woman. So how can it be considered okay?

 

Unless you want to go the route that "gay marriage" is permitted......although it's very clear that it clearly isn't okay.

It isn't up to you to define what the parameters of marriage are

Yes it is not up to me to define what the parameters of marriage are but it is neither up to you or any other human. We are discussing what the Quran says about this issue and not the believes and prejudices of individual "scholars".

[Allyourbase]

Ah, the good Doctor is back! I was worried there for a second, glad you resurfaced. I was hoping the checkmate earlier would bring a changed man. I thought you would declare your agreement with the facts, that you would swear allegiance to the truth but you're back with just the same tired Wahabi verbal kung-fu

 

YOU DID NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION!!! (waa kow!)

 

You keep talking about 'universal understanding' and 'agreement of scholars' and some nonsense about 'islamic guidelines' and you keep ignoring the glaring clarity of the MULTIPLE Arabic verses, supported by the biblical reference (thanks for bringing that up xabad!) in which the dear prophet offers his daughters for the 'doing', not marriage but in sacrifice, in the place of his divine guests.

 

You keep talking about what is not there, whilst I am pointing you the Quranic verse in question, with no 'scholar opinions' or 'universal understanding' but the bare verse alone. You are accusing the dear G.O.D of being vague, or perhaps omitting important pieces of information on multiple counts here. And please dont bring up nuances of Arabic that you clearly can not read (lol!), Mohamed took that story from the bible and you can see, verse for verse, how the two stories are identical, this is no coincidence sxb. Just like all the other stories that the Quran had 'borrowed' from the bible.

 

You have no place to run, you are alone here sxb (I am not counting your braindead cheerleader Khayra).

 

Duces!

[DoctorKenney]

Lol AllYourBase did exactly what I predicted he would do!

 

You're repeating yourself ya AllYourBase.

 

You're just trolling now. Go away

[Allyourbase]

Okay, one more example from the Quran to deliver the final blow to these Wahabi circus performers.

 

There is a very similar case in the Quran where a man is offering one of his daughters to another man in marriage this time. This happens in the story of Moses fleeing the wrath of Egypt's Pharaoh. Now the dear G.O.D is very clear as to what is on offer here:

 

 

He said, "Indeed, I wish to wed you one of these, my two daughters, on that you serve me for eight years; but if you complete ten, it will be from you. And I do not wish to put you in difficulty. You will find me, if Allah wills, from among the righteous."

 

 

There is no need to insert words in brackets, or make shit up to get the meaning across here because it is explicitly mentioned in the Arabic text. There is no care taken to adhere to the 'nuances of the Arabic language' or to make up some 'universal understanding' of the text because, again like the previous verses on Lut, its very clear.

 

Your time is up sxb.

[DoctorKenney]

Let me make this clear, that I'm only making this point, to finally make an address to this brain-dead character AllYourBase who insists that things have to be stated explicitly or else. Literally every language on the face of this Earth has words which carry implicit meanings based on their context, but this clown refuses to see that for himself. He's either being dishonest, or he's not very bright.

 

Let me give you an example:

 

 

 

Quran Chapter 73:20

 

Indeed, your Lord knows, [O Muhammad],

that you stand [in prayer] almost two thirds of the night or half of it or a third of it, and [so do] a group of those with you.

And Allah determines [the extent of] the night and the day. He has known that you [Muslims] will not be able to do it and has turned to you in forgiveness, so recite what is easy [for you] of the Qur'an. He has known that there will be among you those who are ill and others traveling throughout the land seeking [something] of the bounty of Allah and others fighting for the cause of Allah . So recite what is easy from it and establish prayer and give zakah and loan Allah a goodly loan. And whatever good you put forward for yourselves - you will find it with Allah . It is better and greater in reward. And seek forgiveness of Allah . Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

 

 

Notice what I bolded. The word "prayer" wasn't mentioned anywhere here. It just said "standing". But what was the implied meaning here? What was the understanding of the verse from everyone, from the Prophet Muhammad himself to all of his companions to all of the generations of Muslims after? We're gonna play the same stubid little game with AllYourBase and say "Since this Ayah doesn't say anything regarding prayer, we can just assume that Allah was telling people to stand around"

 

But anyone who's not brain-dead can conclude that Allah was obviously talking about prayer, when He mentioned "standing". The same way how Prophet Lot was obviously mentioning marriage, as no Prophet of God would ever sanction anything except marriage.

 

Now this is just one small example. The Quran has literally hundreds of verses where brackets need to be inserted in the English translation, to convey the real meaning and connotations.

 

This clown doesn't understand what "Lost in Translation" even means.

 

Do you see how idiotic his train of thought is? Why are we allowing such imbeciles to post such things in this forum, and then claim that what they're doing is rational? Where's the rationality here?

[DoctorKenney]

When you argue, argue with honor. Debate with dignity. There's no dignity or class exhibited by this character AllYourBase.

 

And since he's unable to answer any of my questions or address my challenges to him, then I'm not obligated to answer his silly questions. Read what I've written to him. He's unable to answer any of my questions, but instead he deflects and avoids the question, and then makes an arrogant remark.

[Allyourbase]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

Let me make this clear, that I'm only making this point, to finally make an address to this brain-dead character AllYourBase who insists that things have to be stated explicitly or else. Literally every language on the face of this Earth has words which carry implicit meanings based on their context, but this clown refuses to see that for himself. He's either being dishonest, or he's not very bright.

 

Let me give you an example:

 

 

 

Quran Chapter 73:20

 

Indeed, your Lord knows, [O Muhammad],

that you stand [in prayer] almost two thirds of the night or half of it or a third of it, and [so do] a group of those with you.

And Allah determines [the extent of] the night and the day. He has known that you [Muslims] will not be able to do it and has turned to you in forgiveness, so recite what is easy [for you] of the Qur’an. He has known that there will be among you those who are ill and others traveling throughout the land seeking [something] of the bounty of Allah and others fighting for the cause of Allah . So recite what is easy from it and establish prayer and give zakah and loan Allah a goodly loan. And whatever good you put forward for yourselves – you will find it with Allah . It is better and greater in reward. And seek forgiveness of Allah . Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

 

 

Notice what I bolded. The word "prayer" wasn't mentioned anywhere here. It just said "standing". But what was the implied meaning here? What was the understanding of the verse from everyone, from the Prophet Muhammad himself to all of his companions to all of the generations of Muslims after? We're gonna play the same stubid little game with AllYourBase and say "Since this Ayah doesn't say anything regarding prayer, we can just assume that Allah was telling people to stand around"

 

But anyone who's not brain-dead can conclude that Allah was obviously talking about prayer, when He mentioned "standing". The same way how Prophet Lot was obviously mentioning marriage, as no Prophet of God would ever sanction anything except marriage.

 

Now this is just one small example. The Quran has literally hundreds of verses where brackets need to be inserted in the English translation, to convey the real meaning and connotations.

 

This clown doesn't understand what "Lost in Translation" even means.

 

Do you see how idiotic his train of thought is? Why are we allowing such imbeciles to post such things in this forum, and then claim that what they're doing is rational? Where's the rationality here?

 

Dude, your lack of knowledge of the Quran is quite shocking!

 

I actually can not believe how ignorant of your own religion you actually are. Your inability to read the original Arabic verse is what makes you utter such diabolical argument.

 

Let me teach you a little.

 

You actually argued that the word prayer is not mentioned in the verse above because you only ever read the English translation. In the original Arabic the meaning is very clear in the verse itself, with no need of any clarification whatsoever:

 

 

Indeed, your Lord knows, [O Muhammad], that you stand [in prayer] almost two thirds of the night or half of it or a third of it, and [so do] a group of those with you. And Allah determines [the extent of] the night and the day. He has known that you [Muslims] will not be able to do it and has turned to you in forgiveness, so recite what is easy [for you] of the Qur'an. He has known that there will be among you those who are ill and others traveling throughout the land seeking [something] of the bounty of Allah and others fighting for the cause of Allah . So recite what is easy from it and establish prayer and give zakah and loan Allah a goodly loan. And whatever good you put forward for yourselves - you will find it with Allah . It is better and greater in reward. And seek forgiveness of Allah . Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

 

===

 

 

 

Notice what I bolded. The word “prayer” wasn’t mentioned anywhere here. It just said “standing”.

 

You are wrong. The Arabic verse is very clear in its use of the phrase "taquum al Layl": meaning to pray the night prayers.

 

Have you never heard of Qiyaamal Laayl?

 

http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%82%D9%8A%D8%A7%D9%85_%D8%A7%D9%84%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%84

 

This is elementary Islam we are talking about, the phrase Qiyaam Al Layl describes a widely practiced prayer at night time.

 

If you have read the chapter of the Quran that you have quoted me from the beginning, you would have seen the same phrase in verse no.2:

 

 

Arise [to pray] the night, except for a little -

 

==

 

The only reason the clarification in brackets is inserted in the English translation is because of the lack of clear meaning of Qiyaamal Layl in English, and not because in Arabic it means just "standing"

 

I am actually shocked , this shows where you stand in Islamic tradition and knowledge, and I am not impressed to say the least.

 

:o

[Allyourbase]

This is so funny, the man who took up the Wahabi cause is this ignorant on Islamic ABCs!

 

And he thought he had a really good point as well haha :D