Somalia PM Says Mogadishu Is Out Of Our Hands

[ugo]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

I am a Dhulbahante .

 

DK, why do you feel the need to grovel and explain yourself to this lowly, insecure, attention seeker bal ?.

 

Ciidan could be chained to a bed by his family and allowed occasional browsing of the internet right now, remember half of them are clinically insane.

 

So just ignore him and we don't wanna know your clan, keep it to yourself. its against the rules of this forum.

[CidanSultan]

Saxib like I said before none of this is personal. This existed before you and I ever existed. But this is no game there is no heart for compassion, mercy or thought in this struggle. When my cities were being bombed from the air where was the brotherhood, islaminimo or even Somalinimo. We have come to understand that these qualities mean nothing this is an existential struggle to the end ether I will live or you will live. Simple

[DoctorKenney]

<cite>

@ugo

said:</cite>

DK, why do you feel the need to grovel and explain yourself to this lowly, insecure, attention seeker bal ?.

 

Ciidan could be chained to a bed by his family and allowed occasional browsing of the internet right now, remember half of them are clinically insane.

 

So just ignore him and we don't wanna know your clan, keep it to yourself. its against the rules of this forum.

 

Ugo I just feel disgusted that CidanSultan's views are representative of a large segment of Somaliland's population. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Yeah you're right

[DoctorKenney]

<cite>

@CidanSultan

said:</cite>

Saxib like I said before none of this is personal. This existed before you and I ever existed. But this is no game there is no heart for compassion, mercy or thought in this struggle. When my cities were being bombed from the air where was the brotherhood, islaminimo or even Somalinimo. We have come to understand that these qualities mean nothing this is an existential struggle to the end ether I will live or you will live. Simple

 

So, you're just going to continue this ugly state of affairs because it was going on before you and I were born? How much longer can you keep this up?

 

And if Siad Barre bombed Hargeisa, how is that any different than the numerous other Dictators of other countries who've slaughtered their own citizens? Excuse me, this was the 20th century, dozens of Dictators were responsible for all sorts of crimes against their own people in many countries (Jordan, Russia, China, Syria, Cambodia, Romania, Uganda, etc.). Somalia is not unique in this at all. And Siad Barre also committed crimes in Bari, but you don't see the people of Bari and Nugaal clamoring for separation. The man is dead, stop using his terrible crimes to justify separation today. Use other reasons

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

^^ No one is justifying Somaliland quest for statehood because of the late wars in the 1980s and the wars the government systematically attacked the people of Somaliland. Somaliland grievances with the so called union pre dates siad bare from the get to go in 1960 the union was unbalanced unequal though Somalilanders have them selves to blame because they enforced the union but still that particular union was never something somalilanders hoped for they hoped for an equal unity with shared interest equality brotherhood not a union where one side takes all with Italian mafia culture. See the mistake you are making is you are equating Somaliland with the region of bari , does Doctor kenny saaxib does the Somali blue flag symbolizes Bari and hiiraan. This is the mistake many make Somaliland is part of the so called 5 Somali countries the Flag is our witness. The Somali blue flag does not symbolize bari or hiiraan . The Killings in the 80s is just one factor but there are so many factors that led to Somaliland re declaration of its independence from injustice to the 1960s to Somaliland region being neglected and that Somaliland identity as a nation gained independence like any other nation in Africa is being equated with the mere regions of Somalia and on top of that the people of Somaliland rejected the 1961 constitution. And that the Somalia leaders the late siad bare and all the others all gave up on greater Somalia they day they recognized the Somali region as part of Ethiopia in 1988. Why Should Somalilanders fought for greater Somali when the Koonfurians gave up on greater Somalia. The SNM rebels wanted to restore the union on the basis of the 2 states in 1960 it fell in deaf ears and the people of Somaliland said maxa ba ina daba socodsinaya gooyaa gooya gooya they chanted and so it was declared the people were fed up. So it was not all about siad bare look in the history books son.

[DoctorKenney]

You're making it seem as if the Union was unbalanced and unequal due to Somaliland being deliberately victimized. Saaxib, the entire Somalia was neglected during the 1960-1990 period, except for Mogadishu. Garowe and Bosaso were small villages before the civil war. Bari and Nugaal were completely undeveloped and the Federal Government used almost NO resources in maintaining these areas. So stop making it seem as if Somaliland was the only neglected portion of the country. Yes, I agree that the Federal Governments between 1960-1990 made terrible mistakes, no question about it. But this isn't something unique at all. There are many African countries, where only the capital city is vibrant while the rest of the country is neglected and poor. This isn't a cause for separation.

 

Also, why are you basing your separation borders on what the British and Italians determined? Why should we as Somalis care for what the Brits have done? Why are you using British-drawn borders as a basis for a national state? The British and Italians simply got out their pen and ruler and drawn out their colonial borders. If "British Somaliland" was drawn in a way to include Bari, would you demand that Bari be included as part of your future Somaliland state? Fact is, there was no such thing as "Somaliland" until the Brits came along as set up their colony. So that can't be used as a basis for a National State. The only reason why Somalia's borders are the way they are, is because of the British, Italians and French meddling into our affairs, and now you want their colonial legacies to live on by establishing a State based on what they determined 100 years ago. That doesn't sound too good at all.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Before the British there were the Egyptians ottomans who used similar boundaries and before that there was the Adal empire which included some segments of Ethiopia and Djibouti. The issue is my friend that Somalia and Somaliland were always two distinct political entities despite Somali speaking communities crossing the border and warring the 2 never shared a nation or a country before 1960. I dont care if it was deliberately done or undeliberately it was done any case which gives the people the right to determine their own future there is nothing they benefit from Somalia no economy the economies even during the union were never connected and today Somaliland is missing out 100s of millions of dollars of investment because of the ill conceived union. Djibouti today claiming hargeisa makes more sense to the people of Hargeisa than Mogadishu claim over Hargeisa, the new generation of SL will never grasp why a person of Mogadishu would claim hargeisa to be from the same country actually historically Djibouti claim over Somaliland would make more sense both Somaliland and Djibouti were ruled from Seylac at some time of the history. You are neglecting the fundamental issue in the dispute between Somalia and Somaliland you are comparing Somaliland to garowe while Somaliland is equal to Djibouti and NFD and the Somali region the flag tells us that Somali wa shan shanta Somaliyeed was the goal since when did garowe became equal to Somaliland. There was nothing called Somalia before the italians came why do you call the country Somalia , Italian Somalia. All of Africa was sorted out by the Colonialists heck its even enshrined in the African union treaties that Africa should not change the colonial borders so Somaliland case has a very good case, and is not creating a new nation but merely revoking from the union they made actually the failed union defied the African union treaties. I just hoped that the African union was set up in 1960 instead of 1963 the African union should have stopped the union of Somalia and Somaliland in 1960, but its not all lost god willing we will tear apart that union in the eyes of the world and the world will be our witness no matter what the cost no matter how long it takes, inshallah.

[Hawdian]

My koonfurian friends must stop with this Abdullah shidiye mentality forget about the Republic of Somaliland and work on making the former italian colony of MogadishuSomALiya peacefull and safe .

[DoctorKenney]

Xaaji, again you can't use that as an argument. The people of the Horn of Africa were never united as a single state, ever. Reer Bari and Reer Nugaal were politically separated from the people of Gedo and Banaadir, for example. The people of Awdal and Toghdeer were politically separated from the people of Mudug and Galguduud. Correct? I want you to see where my logic is coming from.

 

We had the same language and similar culture but there was no united distinct Somali nation governing the Horn of Africa. Ever. But today you never see Reer Bari arguing for separation stating "we were never united with Reer Gedo and Reer Hiiraan in the past. So therefore we should be politically separated from them" It doesn't make sense saaxib. BTW I don't like the existence of Djibouti either, but since it's already an independent recognized nation then there's really nothing we can do about it. Again, why should anyone support separation based on British-drawn borders?

 

Nobody in Mogadishu is claiming Hargeisa. A man from Mogadishu will stay in that city. A man from Beledweyne will stay in his own city. A man from Hargeisa will stay in his own city. The same way how here in America, we have dozens of states, each state having their own separate government and their own policies. Or how in the United Arab Emirates, each separate Emirate has it's own government and it's own policies.

 

So what's with this obsession of separation? What could it possibly gain you? And if Puntland wanted to secede from Somalia and make a union with Somaliland, would you accept that?

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

First you should not ask rhetorical questions first there was never an awdal region before 1983 Somaliland consisted of 2 regions and Somalia six regions the 2 merged on the basis of common language and to some extend traditions. But the former defunct Somali republic is the primary example that basing a nation or a republic a nationality based on a language was destine to fail. Why force The Somali speaking into one nation why put all your eggs in one basket? Its not like the union made both Somalia and Somaliland shine the 2 nations were regressing we have wasted to much time chasing this dream to bring the Somali speaking together either by force we should let nature be nature. No i am saying i am not saying a person from Mogadishu is claiming hargiesa as his own , but the concept of nationhood what binds Mogadishu to hargeisa other than the former failed union our fathers created. The union is neither here or there today in 2014. I was making an example a person from jabuuti claiming hargeisa as part of jabuuti would make more sense to reer Somaliland. The Brits the Italians and the french are gone why didn't Djibouti unite with Somali republic why is Somaliland adamant on its statehood there are no brits italians of french or other Europeans enforcing it on them. What does Somaliland got to gain prosperity progress more development if Somaliland was 22 years a success with little or no resources what can it achieve when it becomes a member of the international community, the Somalilanders have shown that they dont need Somalia or any other country to be successful they have a long way to go but they will get there. The question is what is there to gain in Somalia do they have enormous resources do they have a tiger economy what can Somalilanders benefit from Somalia i prefer Somaliland to make a union with the European union or Germany instead with Somalia speaking the Same language is a weak argument the Arabs would not have 23 states if language was a main factor to unite and form one republic. The Albanians and kosovans would be united if there is no willingness shared interest shared economic interest there is no need for to unite or even shared values or political culture to make the union work, its like a company when they start their partnership. So my point is if Somalia and Somaliland were never united historically other than being interlinked by a common language and religion but never shared a state a country government historically. The union created in 1960 was easily undermined and thats why it only lasted for 30 years. Today Somaliland is almost 23 years in 8 years time Somaliland independence will exceed that of the union. And in the future the 30 years of union will only be viewed as negative part of the history even if we remove the 10 year liberation struggle from 1981 to 1991. The Union only lasted for 20 years and Somaliland fighting for separation is much longer from 1981 to now.

[ugo]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

Ugo I just feel disgusted that CidanSultan's views are representative of a large segment of Somaliland's population. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

Yeah you're right

 

DK, what is the point in arguing with a lunatic ?. even if you win you still lose.

[DoctorKenney]

Okay, then I agree that basing a nation on a common language isn't always the best idea. Sometimes it can be a terrible idea. But I'm still wondering how Somaliland becoming independent would be a better option than Somaliland forming a Federal State within a larger Republic?

 

If each Federal State is left to control it's own affairs, just like in the United Arab Emirates, then how would that be any worse than Somaliland becoming independent? And I'm not insisting on a Union so that the South can control the North and dictate to them how they can conduct themselves. I want a Union because I actually see Somalilanders as my brothers and I see no reason for a political separation when we can reach a better form of accommodation.

 

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

What has Somalia to offer Somaliland thats the question u should ask your self is Somalia richer than Somaliland is it more economical viable , a federation has to benefit both, even in the 1960 we never thought about the economic gain of both the 2 states. But we were more focused on the ethno nationalism. I mean if you said let Somaliland become part of the European union i would say yes but why Somalia if we already agree that language should not be the basis of forming a nation state or working together it makes things easy , but it doesnt make it better for Somalilanders. Lets say oil is found in Somaliland why would Somaliland share it with Somalia , lets say Somaliland Economy will progress in the next 20 years why would Somaliland share that with Somalia, Would the US share its wealth with Canada on the basis of speaking the same language? If you consider Somalilanders ur brothers u should support your brothers and let them live side by side as neighboring sovereign nations who can cooperate on shared interest in the regions. Would Iraq share its wealth with the sham nations its all about the nationality of a nation and what is good for the people of any other particular country.

[Dr_Osman]

Doctor kennedy, you shouldn't really get to deep into this issue. Somaliland hasn't got domestic or international support for their policies, they're only ally is ethiopia who is a firm believer of somali unity and is based in mogadishu. If they truly had backing it would be different story. They r on the weaker side of the table. If they don't comply with federation, economic sanctions will follow like aid cuts, port and airport sanctions, and if necessary military action and they will have no way to re arm because ethiopia will cut all ties on top of a un embargo they will be sitting ducks. Their leaders r not stupid, they will peacefully federate.

 

U have to understand the only thing they have is berbera port to convince ethiopia to support them but ethiopia will say get lost, i got puppets in hamar and i'd prefer a unity puppet then a separatist one. You giv sland way to much credibility as if their policies are real challenges, politicians r not stupid they sland stands on nothing but its about diplomacy and public image for hamar about these turkey talks

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Ethiopia a firm believer of Somali unity lol Detoore lost it Ethiopia has been trying to divide arm warlords for the past 17 years in Somalia Ethiopia tries to befriend every entity aslong as it is not Alshabaab to be the mediator in all conflicts of Somalis they are friends to all enemy's to non except Amiir Godane. Ethiopia cares only how to weaken Somalia it prefers the status quo for everything a broken Somalia under her mercy Amisom Ethiopia IGAD diplomatic superiority and an unrecognized Somaliland its suits them the best. Ethiopia currently is backing the bay and bakool state soon Ethiopia will control the Somali border line regions all together. Ethiopians are smart they capitalize on Somalis and their distrust and leaders who have no national unity. Lol who is going to impose economic sanctions on Somaliland , the international community lolz the international community even supports Somalia and Somalialdn airs space agreement i believe Somaliland is in better shape than it was few years ago in terms of the international community , the ic wants a solution for the Somalia and Somaliland dispute. Somaliland told the United nations no UN flights to hargeisa where were the sanctions Somaliland told Britain we are not attending the London conference last year where are the sanctions if it is one thing Somaliland leaders only work for Somaliland and its interest and care less what the Europeans say about Somaliland heck even daahir rayaale told US officials he is not going to attend their meetings in Washington because its not inline with what Somaliland stands for. Dunidu way walaantahay marku cismaan ka fakirayo inay Itoobiya Somali mideyneyso looolz. The international community deals with Somaliladn as a defacto state with international contacts they IC initiated talks between Somalia and Somaliland and its going on for quiet some time now eventually there will be a break through though to separate from each other in the eyes of the world.