A one way trip to Mars

[Allyourbase]

LOL @ waan ku ducaystaa

 

Sxb unfortunately our planet is not flat markaas you have to think it through. Now a 7th century man could not have conceived of the sphericity of the Earth, hence the order to 'face' the Kacbah during prayers, never could he have imagined that people will reach the moon and space and go in orbit such that facing the kacbah is simply not an option. Laakin anigu waxaan layaabiya those trying to observe the 'direction' of Mecca when in reality it makes no sense whatsoever.

 

You are the future sxb, you should know better.

[DoctorKenney]

What a ridiculous and juvenile argument. Have we really reduced this forum to such a childish level? Arguing about how your prayers wouldn't follow the curvature of the Earth and therefore will be sent into outer space?

 

To Allah belongs the Heavens and the Earth. If an astronaut wants to pray to Allah, then he can pray towards the Earth and inshaAllah his prayers will be accepted. Allah will never waste the good deeds of anyone

 

You people have reduced Islam into something robotic, arguing over ridiculous points. Please, have some self-respect and don't engage with losers such as AllYourBase

[Johnny B]

Just because you and Khayr keep constantly calling him loser instead of refuting his arguments speaks volumes of his superiority in the arguments.

 

If I was a believer and had the means , I'd take that flight and get closer to "Allah" .

[Khayr]

Johnnny B,

 

For the record, I said that he had a learning disability.

 

Offbase,

 

Where did you get those amazing gifs from?

[DoctorKenney]

Johnny B, just because you cosign with his arguments doesn't make them superior. Iska amuus. You don't know logic if it hit you in the face.

 

Really? We're debating about whether the curvature of the Earth makes prayers invalid? We're seriously arguing such ridiculous things?

 

Ask such a question in an Academic setting and watch you and OffYourBase get laughed out of the room. You're either being deliberately manipulative, or you're just not a very bright person.

 

Read up on why Muslims even face Mecca during prayers and then get back to me.

 

P.S. And how did a Topic regarding Mars even turn into this?

[DoctorKenney]

And just to address this incredibly obtuse argument:

 

I actually feel like I'm degrading myself by doing this.

 

To Allah belongs the East and the West, and the North and the South. And Allah is most capable of understanding our nature, so Allah will never overburden us with more than we can handle.

 

If some Astronaut is on the planet Pluto and he wants to make Salat, then he faces in the direction he feels is the most appropriate direction, and then he makes his Salat. And Allah, being the Most Forgiving, would accept such a prayer. Islam is not some robotic religion with no flexibility. Allah knows us best, and would allow flexibility if that's what's best for the people. People who debate such issues have no interest in finding out the truth, but are only interested in trolling Muslims in order to irritate them.

[Allyourbase]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

Really? We're debating about whether the curvature of the Earth makes prayers invalid? We're seriously arguing such ridiculous things?

 

Ask such a question in an Academic setting and watch you and OffYourBase get laughed out of the room. You're either being deliberately manipulative, or you're just not a very bright person.

 

Read up on why Muslims even face Mecca during prayers and then get back to me.

 

P.S. And how did a Topic regarding Mars even turn into this?

 

Do you even know why you face Mecca five times a day during prayers?

 

Would love to see your take on it

 

Just so you know, Mecca was not the first place the Muslims were ordered to face during prayers. The dear prophet had ordered the Muslims to face Jerusalem during their prayers, this was an attempt to appease the Jews of Arabia in hopes of including them in his religion. But what happened was the Jews rejected the dear prophet and thus, in a state of a huff, the dear prophet ordered the muslims change the directionality of prayers to face the Ka'ba, a pagan temple at the time, but an Arab pagan temple nonetheless.

 

Takale dearest DoctorKenny,

 

To Allah belongs the East and the West, and the North and the South. And Allah is most capable of understanding our nature, so Allah will never overburden us with more than we can handle.

 

Would that not apply to this earth? Meaning if the East and the West, and the North and the South belong to dear Allah, why can you not face any direction here on earth?

 

 

 

P.S. And how did a Topic regarding Mars even turn into this?

 

If you did indeed read the thread, it was our mutual brother, the abrupt, 3-sentenced, beautiful Wahabi, Khayr that brought this point up.

 

Markaa saas ula soco

[DoctorKenney]

We face Mecca because Allah ordered us in the Quran to face Mecca during our prayers. Its a universal point of reference for all Muslims and a source of spiritual unity for all of us. Speculating about such topics isn't considered as strong argumentation

 

And the rest of your post was nothing but conjecture and your attempts to insert your own storyline and interpretation over the direction of the Qiblah. I've heard the exact same argument made by a Missionary when I was a teenager and your repeating these silly arguments reflects a lot about your brand of thinking.

 

[Allyourbase]

You can call it silly all you want but we have facts here,and these are that early Muslims were ordered to pray towards Jerusalem, even when they were still in Mecca, then something changed, and they were told to stop praying towards Jerusalem and start facing the Ka'bah, which at the time was a pagan temple. These are facts sxb.

 

No one knows why the dear prophet made the change, but it was clear that the earlier orders were to appease the 'people of the book' i.e. Jews and Christians. When there was no hope of them accepting the dear prophet then there was no more need to face their holy Jerusalem, so divine orders were given to change directions to the Ka'bah, despite the Ka'bah at the time being filled with pagan idols.

 

- Do you dispute any of these facts?

 

- Out of curiousity, how else do you explain this radical change?

[DoctorKenney]

So you're just going to make some far-fetched claims against Islam, based on your interpretation, and then you ask me to refute it?! Are you kidding me? Is this how far your arrogance has taken you? Why should I respond to such ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims?

 

Your belief that the Qiblah was changed due to some perceived malice against the Jews holds no water, because Jerusalem is one of the holiest sites in Islam, and Masjidul Aqsa is a revered site and a point of pilgrimage for Muslims worldwide. And your belief that it was to appease the Jews also holds no water, because you have NO FACTS AND NO EVIDENCE TO BACK THAT UP. And if Allah changed the Qibla to Mecca, then it doesn't give you any right to speculate that "Hmm maybe Allah changed the Qibla because of drama and hostilities"

 

And your extreme ignorance regarding the origins of the Kaaba is the reason why you would ask such a loaded question. We Muslims don't worship the Kaaba, it's just a structure that was constructed by Prophet Ibrahim thousands of years ago. And the Kaaba containing pagan idols at that time doesn't change the fact that it's the legitimate Qibla which Allah chose, and when the Muslims conquered Mecca a few years later, the pagan idols were completely destroyed. The Kaaba was constructed by the monotheist Prophet Ibrahim, and over a period of thousands of years, his descendants gradually started to adopt paganism and idolatry, and associating partners with Allah. But I'm totally sure you know nothing about that right? There's a lot you don't know Dear ALlYourBase

 

That was an incredibly obtuse and childish argument. And I have no interest in continuing such a trivial discussion with you. You're obviously not well-read about Islam, and I really don't have any interest in playing the role of Teacher on this forum.

 

Be quiet, you do nothing but waste my time in endlessly circulatory arguments.

[Allyourbase]

<cite>

@DoctorKenney

said:</cite>

So you're just going to make some far-fetched claims against Islam, based on your interpretation, and then you ask me to refute it?! Are you kidding me? Is this how far your arrogance has taken you? Why should I respond to such ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims?

 

Your belief that the Qiblah was changed due to some perceived malice against the Jews holds no water, because Jerusalem is one of the holiest sites in Islam, and Masjidul Aqsa is a revered site and a point of pilgrimage for Muslims worldwide. And your belief that it was to appease the Jews also holds no water,

because you have NO FACTS AND NO EVIDENCE TO BACK THAT UP.

And if Allah changed the Qibla to Mecca, then it doesn't give you any right to speculate that "Hmm maybe Allah changed the Qibla because of drama and hostilities"

 

And your extreme ignorance regarding the origins of the Kaaba is the reason why you would ask such a loaded question. We Muslims don't worship the Kaaba, it's just a structure that was constructed by Prophet Ibrahim thousands of years ago. And the Kaaba containing pagan idols at that time doesn't change the fact that it's the legitimate Qibla which Allah chose, and when the Muslims conquered Mecca a few years later, the pagan idols were completely destroyed. The Kaaba was constructed by the monotheist Prophet Ibrahim, and over a period of thousands of years, his descendants gradually started to adopt paganism and idolatry, and associating partners with Allah. But I'm totally sure you know nothing about that right? There's a lot you don't know Dear ALlYourBase

 

That was an incredibly obtuse and childish argument. And I have no interest in continuing such a trivial discussion with you. You're obviously not well-read about Islam, and I really don't have any interest in playing the role of Teacher on this forum.

 

Be quiet, you do nothing but waste my time in endlessly circulatory arguments.

 

You sure have a love for writing walls of texts on anything but what you are asked dont you akhi DoctorKenny?

 

I asked two simple questions.

 

- Did the dear prophet not order the muslims to pray exclusively facing Jerusalem? Even whilst they were still in Mecca?

 

- Did he suddenly not order them to change the Qibla to the Ka'bah? Despite the Ka'bah at the time being a pagan temple?

 

- Did he give them any reasons for such contradicting orders?

 

This is a dilemma because if the first order to pray towards Jerusalem is divine, then why would Allah (swt) change his decision on Qibla?

 

You must be able to see the inherent problem in ordering ALL muslims to face one direction one day, then forbidding that and ordering them to face a totally different direction, for no apparent reason.

 

Im just saying

[DoctorKenney]

Your argument is essentially you having an issue about Muslims being ordered to pray towards Jerusalem, and then Allah revealing a Quranic verse which stipulated that the Muslims face towards Mecca instead.

 

Did you know that in Islam, alcohol was once permissible, then it was discouraged, then it was made forbidden?

 

Did you know that in Islam, all of the 5 daily prayers originally consisted of 2 raka'ahs, but then afterwards the Dhuhr, Asr, and Isha prayers were doubled to 4 raka'ahs and then the Maghrib prayer was increased to 3 raka'ahs? While the Fajr prayer remained at 2 raka'ahs.

 

If Allah legislated a new Qiblah for the Muslim Ummah to face, then who are you (as a Kaafir) to concern yourself with this? I am under no obligation to answer questions which you're obviously not interested in even seeking an answer for.

 

And you had previous assertions which you couldn't prove so you withdrew it. You are a coward of the 1st degree

 

Warya, leave me alone

[Allyourbase]

Dude, it was not about Allah (swt) legislating a new Qiblah, it was the dear prophet's own desire to change it, he just included that in the Quran to give it a divine authority. Can you not see that?

 

I do not think you read Quran dear brother, I suggest you read it more:

 

 

We have indeed (qad, ‘indeed’, is for affirmation) seen you turning your face about in the, direction of the, heaven, looking around for the Revelation and longing for the command to face the Ka‘ba: he [the Prophet] wished for this because it was the prayer-direction of Abraham and would be more conducive to the submission of the Arabs [to Islam]; now We will surely turn you to a direction that shall satisfy you, that you will love. Turn your face, in prayer, towards the Sacred Mosque, that is, the Ka‘ba, and wherever you are (addressing the [Muslim] community) turn your faces, in prayer, towards it. Those who have been given the Scripture know that it, the change towards the Ka‘ba, is the, fixed, truth from their Lord, on account of the description in their Scripture of how the Prophet (s) would re-orient himself to it; God is not heedless of what you do, O believers, when you obey His command (alternatively, ta‘malūna, ‘you do’, can be read ya‘malūna, ‘they do’, in other words [it would be referring to] the Jews’ denial of the matter concerning the direction of prayer).

 

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=2&tAyahNo=144&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

 

 

 

(We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven…) [2:144]. The Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said once to Gabriel, peace be upon him: “I wish that Allah, exalted is He, directed me away from the qiblah of the Jews to a different qiblah' - he meant to say the Ka'bah because it was the qiblah of Abraham. Gabriel said to him: 'I am a slave like you; nothing is in my power. Do therefore request your Lord to direct you away from it toward the qiblah of Abraham'. Gabriel then rose in the sky while the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, kept looking at heaven in the hope that Gabriel would bring him the news of what he had requested. And so Allah revealed this verse”.

 

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=86&tSoraNo=2&tAyahNo=144&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

 

 

[thefuturenow]

These are not easy questions. They require historical, spiritual, social and even political dimensions to be taken into account. But most importantly they require an open and inquisitive mind that seeks knowledge and understanding. Once this is achieved, you can go to google.com.

 

May God guide us all.

[DoctorKenney]

AllYourBase, you're claiming that the Qiblah change was not legislated by Allah.

 

I'm saying that it was legislated by Allah, and even if the Prophet so desired it, then it was simply Allah granting and fulfilling the Prophet's dua's in a manner which is best for the Muslim community. Mecca is the focal point and a source of unity for all Muslims, if they're in Australia or if they're in Ghana.

 

And I see nothing wrong with that.

 

May Allah guide us all