We Are Somalilanders

[DoctorKenney]

Xaaji Xunjuf;989403 wrote:

But at some point u say u want islamic unity and gaal made borders means nothing on the other hand u think the ictraaf of the gaal is important why cant u claim Djibouti or are you scared of the gaals ictraaf? Ileen labadu isku meel ma galaan eh.

Bro, we have to deal with our circumstances, and be realistic. Somalia's Government can barely control it's own borders, let alone absorb another country (Djibouti).

 

Again, I'm gonna reiterate: I am against the existence of Djibouti as an independent nation.

 

But this is reality, we gotta deal with our circumstances in the best possible way. So we have to leave the Djibouti issue for future generations. But Somaliland on the other hand, is still recognized as part of Somalia. So there is absolutely no reason why they should secede from the rest of the country.

 

These are nothing but petty differences that aren't worth seceding over.

[Kaluun]

Indeed Jacaylbaro we are all Somalilanders; from Ras Kamboni to Djibouti, Moyale to Ras Alula.

 

These guys did not get you inadeer. Anyways why are users on this site always negative and whining?

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

If Somalia cannot control even Somalia , than what makes you think it will be able to control Somaliland , whether the UN bosses say its part of the defunct Somali republic or not, at the end of the day its all about the boots on the ground and those who are able to enforce their laws in the land.The key here is that its recognized by the UN that its parts of the Somali republic not by the people of Somaliland.

 

On one point your argument is that we should get rid of the rules and regulations made by the Europeans Americans and UN at the same time u wish to use the same against Somaliland a contradiction there i believe. By the way Somaliland never said that its seceding from Somalia , Somaliland always said that it withdrew from the former Somali republic union, a union created by the 2 states Somalia and Somaliland. Somaliland was never an integral part of Somalia or a province of Somalia. Not during colonialism not before Colonialism the act of the union speaks for its self enshrined in the first Somali constitution.

 

You call it petty differences thats exactly the reason why the people of decided to unite with Somalia they thought there were mere petty differences but when the Union was conceived they easily felt trapped and a year later in 1961 they staged a coup to withdraw from the union just a year later in 1961 can u imagine how short the union lasted lol. Somaliland absolutely benefited zero from the Somali republic the union it made Somaliland only weaker more vulnerable followed by a brutal war that left so many people dead on both sides this was all caused by the union. If there was never a union all of that could have been avoided. Somaliland sacrificed their own independence in 1960 for the larger Somali initiative but they got nothing in return not the equal status they were expecting a union that really benefited both. But it solely benefited Somalia in terms of economy political hierarchy in infrastructure. Djibouti saw how bad the deal Somaliland got in 1977 and thought twice before joining the Somali republic and they stayed away. Thank you doctor kenney the union with Somalia made Somaliland vigilant and forced them to walk extra few miles it made them determined to only care for their own country today and rebuild their country and not to look back on the 30 years they wasted on Somalia. The people of Somaliland erased the 30 years union with Somalia from their minds soon in a decade or 2 there will be hardly no one that remembers the union since 65% of the people of Somaliland are 35 years or younger, anagi ba dirqi ku xasuusana lol.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Kaluun;989412 wrote:

Indeed Jacaylbaro we are all Somalilanders; from Ras Kamboni to Djibouti, Moyale to Ras Alula.

 

These guys did not get you inadeer. Anyways why are users on this site always negative and whining?

U mean from lawyacade to yoocade thats The Somaliand boundary description

 

In Somalia its the 2 rasses raskambooni to raas caseer

[Kaluun]

^^ Somaliland = land of Somalis. So technically everyone is a Somalilander. Let's be realistic. I too support SL Republic as a separate state but the name is for all Somalis. That's why we need new name exclusively for the borders you have described.

 

You know I am right. There is no point being arrogant and on denial.

 

Somaliland = land of Somalis. The yellow area on the map below

 

 

Imagine calling a country Arabland and at the same time being anti-Pan-Arabism. Somaliland is like that. It was to debug the two state unity yet its name is Land of Somalis (Somaliland) then on top of that we have an Italian flag thats more relevant in Mogadishu than Hargeisa.

 

I can tolerate the flag for few good years but the name of the nation sucks. Might as well call it Greater Somalia yet advocate for separation.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

It was called British Somaliland we remove the British and call it Somaliland makes sense to me , Somalia is called Somalia, former Italian Somalia Djibouti was called Djibouti Territoire français des Afars et des Issas, and Somaliland is called Somaliland. And then there is NFD northern frontier district or kenya's north eastern province., and than there is the Somali Kilil under Xabashi Bondage. Somaliland is not going to drop the Somali name ,for the Koonfurans Somali is part of the heritage and culture of the people of Somaliland. Somali makes sense in Somaliland 100% of the people of Somaliland are of pure ethnic Somali stock with Somali as the native language , in Somalia more than 25% of Somali population are assimilated Somalis. In Djibouti half of the population are of an Afar ethnic group. The Somaliland name makes sense in Somaliland. i am not necessarily against pan Somalism aslong as its done in the vision of the people of Somaliland separate nation states,and unity in the same form of the Europeans The Somalis in Somaliland and the Somalis in Djibouti and the Somalis in Kenya and the Somalis under Xabashis can all cooperate based on equality justice and partnership in maybe 50 years time. But the old days of Somaliland is part of Somalia and a union based on qiiro japan and hatred and jealousy and pseudo nationalism is not going to work.

[DoctorKenney]

Xaaji, there is no contradiction here. Again, we are humans. We are limited in our scope and abilities. And we are forced to deal with the circumstances dealt to us. Somalia's Federal Government is weak, they can barely control a few provinces, let alone conquer Djibouti. But Somaliland, on the other hand, has a very capable and functioning Army. They're well-armed, well-trained, and well-disciplined. So this whole "what makes you think Somalia can control Somaliland" is irrelevant, since Somaliland is still technically part of Somalia, and no "conquering" is necessary at all here.

 

I don't see how this is a bad thing?

 

Instead of each region of Somalia separating into different independent nations, wouldn't a better solution be if Somalia and Somaliland shared the same currency, and the same passport. And nothing else. Each region would be autonomous, they would have their own governmental institutions, they would collect their own taxes, and they would run their region the way they see fit. This would be a decentralized State.

 

Somalia has never been united as a single country before 1960. It was always divided into separate kingdoms which controlled only a portion of the country itself. But never the entire country

 

The problem with the 1960-1990 model of Governance was that Somalia was a highly centralized State then. The Government in Mogadishu controlled what happened in Hargeisa, sometimes without the consent of the actual people in Somaliland themselves. You're making it seem as if a decentralized State would never work, when this model has never been tried before.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

^ i dont mind a decentralized state if it works for Somalia it should work for Somalia. But Somaliland cannot be part of it i would not mind sharing the same currency but before that the 2 Economies need to be integrated and i dont see that happening any time as soon , aslong as there is an dispute about the future relationship between the 2 countries. Business between Somalia and Somaliland is very limited, i doubt any one in Somaliland would accept its currency rates to be controlled from the Bakara market. Somalis and nomadic people and the Somali nomad will not allow some one else to herd his camels. Today independence works for Somaliland but the 2 can economically integrate in the future if there are agreements signed by the people of SL and Somalia.

[DoctorKenney]

So you would support the unification of Somaliland and Somalia, as long as they agree to have a decentralized State and the regional and federal powers being clearly defined and outlined? As long as they sit together as adults, and resolve these issues as brethren.

 

And Xaaji, currency rates are controlled through Central Bank policies, which can be shared between Somaliland, Puntland and Somalia.

 

One thing we learned from the 1960-1990 model is that a centralized State would never work for us. But we are Somalis, we're in a unique position, and we shouldn't import a European-style government if it doesn't work for us.

[Kaluun]

All I am saying is that Somaliland as a name of a country makes no sense to me. It is the land of Somalis and the land of Somalis is not just what the British drew from London-------it is vast and glorious but I am afraid gentlemen due to our differences in ideologies, religion (the south being predominantly Wahabi and northerners Suufis/small salafists); we can not get along. So let us try to co-exist instead of delivering each others Improvised Explosive Device (IED).

 

I believe SL should be closer to Addis while Mogadishu should focus doing trade with its Bantu relative Nairobi (niiko culture makes you Bantu more than anything, the rest I will list time other times).

 

 

 

Just me. No disrespect. I tell things how I see it.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

No Somaliland is not Puntland , Somaliland wants complete separation but i would not mind in the long term to economically integrate ofcourse based on mutual interest the same way East African nations are adopting a single passport and currency although this needs to be discussed deeply if we wish to go that way the key point beneficial for both countries. But i doubt the 2 can resolve their political dispute they have been going to Turkey the past 1.5 year and they haven't agreed on anything substantial thus far. It will eventually go to the Europeans to force us both to compromise on some key issues.

[DoctorKenney]

^Well that's why I said that both parties should compromise on this issue. Somaliland and Somalia. Somaliland should give up their independence aspirations, whereas Somalia should give Somaliland full autonomy to control their own affairs.

 

Most of my clan is from Lascaanod, which is technically part of Somaliland, although I myself don't recognize Somaliland as an independent state

 

If Somaliland actually gained international recognition and became a real country, would you support H-Block and other Somalis to move to Hargeisa and acquire a citizenship? Would you be fine with them starting businesses, going to school, and living in Hargeisa as regular citizens as long as they don't pursue political office?

 

Because I've met many Somalilanders who hold the position that all Southerners should be deported from "their" country.

[Kaluun]

Those who say all southerners should be deported are not genuine Durians. They are only saying that to get a reaction from you. Southerners will only be deported if they:

 

1) Openly do niiko in public places

2) Suicide bomb SL cities

3) Start importing Bantu kids

 

If they don't violate those three rules for me they are okay. They can live and join the nation and take key positions. They already do. Cukuse is one of them and so are many major businesses. We do not discriminate against them but they must not corrupt our sacred culture.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Doctor i dont think the compromise as you put will be beneficial for both , thats more a win for Somalia, Somaliland gains nothing its already autonomous , the people of Somaliland have a fundamental issue with Somalia giving Something to Somaliland. The whole Somalia and Somaliland issue if you carefully listen to Somaliland politicians is that its one of equal footing, eventhough the international community doesn't recognize it as such but the equality is how we conceived the union even though it went one way. I would not mind the movement of people oo la is dhex galo and Somalilanders to obtain Somalia citizenship and koonfurians getting Somaliland citizenship. Ofcourse there are radicals in Somaliland who want to deport all koonfurians the same way there are koonfurians who want to bring back Somaliland forcefully to the union. An reasonable compromise the Europeans might suggest is a confederate state for a few years to give the union a chance and Somaliland to be given a UN supervised referendum in a few years time whether they want independence or Union with in those few years the koonfurians are given the chance to revive the union and hold rallies in Somaliland. I think that is very reasonable for both sides.and a fair compromise.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Kaluun;989448 wrote:

Those who say all southerners should be deported are not genuine Durians. They are only saying that to get a reaction from you. Southerners will only be deported if they:

 

1) Openly do niiko in public places

2) Suicide bomb SL cities

3) Start importing Bantu kids

 

If they don't violate those three rules for me they are okay. They can live and join the nation and take key positions. They already do. Cukuse is one of them and so are many major businesses. We do not discriminate against them but they must not corrupt our sacred culture.

 

Cukuse father was a migrant to Somaliland in the early 60s Cukuse was begotten by an Afro hashimite woman and he was born and bred in Hargeisa and he traveled with his maternal uncles to Aware in the days of the SNM and joined the SNM as a teenager. He grew up in their midst and today he even adopted the lineage of his maternal uncles and is categorized as one.