Somali girl rebels against Hijab, throws it in the snow

[guleed_ali]

Hawdian;989015 wrote:

Ruunti tallo fcn baa sheegtey. I have just watched the YouTube clip again and can honestly say that this girl comes from a loving good family she has a very supportive father , her mother is dead before they came to Norway . This girl talks with her dad about wearing the hijab she does not wear it to school now . She says its really important for her to archive her goals and make her family proud of her . She says she will wear hijab again when she feels ready even its for forever .she says to the question on wether she is Norwegian or muslim that she is Norwegian muslim. This is not an interview about hijab but about a young muslim girl reflecting about her life in Norge and seen this I have no doubt that Yasmin will become a mature successful young adult due to her wonderful family and the fact she so intelligent . Overall a good interview with a very well spoken young muslim girl .

Yes but as a Muslim she's insinuating that the Hijab is a barrier for her to succeed. She doesn't know that as a Muslim she's setting herself up to fail. What I'm trying to say is that her father should emphasize is that it's not him she's disobeying or angering but that she's angering Allah. This is the only reason I hope that all Muslim sisters do wear the Hijab. Is so that they are obedient servants of Allah. Replace "do wear the hijab" and insert any positive attribute about a Muslim and that's still my belief.

 

Having said all this I ask Allah to guide her and all of us and understand that I don't dislike this young girl but I dislike her deciding not to wear the Hijab. This is the essence of (الولاء و البراء) loving and hating things for the sake of Allah.

[thefuturenow]

Safferz;988997 wrote:

I don't have issues with the hijab -- I respect any woman's decision to wear one, as well as a woman's decision to take it off.

Muslims believe than sin deserves no respect. That does not mean the individual should not be respected. Unfortunately, we are humans and we can be superficial and judgmental. We often reach conclusions upon first impressions and rely on external symbols to do so. An Islamic ideal is to rise above such behavior just as another is to dress in the ordained manner. It just so happens that one infraction is far more obvious to the eye than the other.

 

Safferz;989008 wrote:

For that reason I applaud the young woman in the video for making the decision out of her own agency, as difficult as it is to do.

You should celebrate the millions who have willingly worn it. Personal agency and reason are not in the sole possession of those who have decided to unveil. It may be that the more difficult decision is not to take the hijaab off, it is to put it on.

[Safferz]

guleed_ali;989016 wrote:

Then let's not force kids to eat their veggies or do their homework. Better yet let's get rid of curfew or chores. The deen is not something where you can pick and choose. If there are people who despise the Hijab and don't want to wear it they're the exception not the rule. Making the Hijab mandatory in a Muslim country is the same as indecency laws in North America (we just have a higher level of modesty, just as some States have a higher level of modesty than other States). Our opinions as outsiders are moot what matters is the will of the people in that particular country and their lawmakers, and one's got to admit it is way more than the typical 50+1 that is required in "democracy" (using the KSA as a test country). By the way you find just as many Women (if not more) fighting to enforce the Hijab as you do Men.

Haye guleed... infantilizing and comparing women's decision making to children being picky about food or refusing to do chores? I would love to see your evidence for the claim that there are "just as many women" in countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran who actively support efforts to curtail women's rights in the country, particularly in how women's bodies are policed by so-called "modesty police." What I am aware of are the widespread grassroots efforts by Saudi and Iranian women to change these laws, so you can hardly describe these repressive states as representing the "will of the people." It's actually quite shocking that you would go as far as saying that, but it is in character for you and in line with other views I've seen you express on the Arab world/Gulf in particular.

 

Humans were given free will to make decisions, including decisions in the religious realm -- as the Quran says, "there is no compulsion in religion." Deal with it, you know nothing about what it's like to wear a hijab or what a Muslim woman in the West experiences as a hijabi, neither do you know what this young woman's experiences were and the thought process that lead to her difficult decision to take it off.

 

thefuturenow;989018 wrote:

You should celebrate the millions who have willingly worn it. Personal agency and reason are not in the sole possession of those who have decided to unveil. It may be that the more difficult decision is not to take the hijaab off, it is to put it on.

Like I said, agency is in the freedom to choose and make the decision on one's own terms, and that's what I celebrate, whether that's to wear hijab, not to wear hijab, or to take one's hijab off. I'm as troubled by societal contexts where hijab is legally or culturally sanctioned for women - like Saudi Arabia, or our own Somalia - as I am by societal contexts where the hijab/niqab is banned, as in France. Autonomy over one's body, and the freedom to make the decision to wear or not wear a hijab free of coercion and force, is what I support.

[tutu]

Safferz;988979 wrote:

There's about a minute of her speaking Somali with her father to say that she has thought about it carefully and decided not to wear hijab anymore, so perhaps people listened to that. But more likely is folks read Mooge's heading and the Somali title of the YouTube video to free associate with what they see in the video, since

I doubt anyone in this thread speaks Norwegian

, though perhaps Cadale can understand a little bit as a Swedish speaker.

[/img]

A presumption too early. I've translated, or rather summarized, the gist of the film. In a nutshell the young lady finds herself between a rock and a hard place due to the expectations of her father and the pressure of culture-clash. She concludes saying that she hopes to become the woman her father wants her to be.

[Safferz]

tutu;989022 wrote:

A presumption too early. I've translated, or rather summarized, the gist of the film. In a nutshell the young lady finds herself between a rock and a hard place due to the expectations of her father and the pressure of culture-clash. She concludes saying that she hopes to become the woman her father wants her to be.

Beklager, tutu

[tutu]

Safferz;988997 wrote:

I'm talking about the social narrative and discourse about the hijab, not limited to this thread but how the hijab is viewed by Muslims generally.

It's considered central to Islamic practice when it comes to Muslim women

, and its very presence or absence seen as an indication of her level of iman/religious commitment. It's not a "hearsay, strawman argument" and I'm surprised you don't see this, but it's quite apparent particularly if you're a Muslim woman and subject to its pressures.

 

I don't have issues with the hijab -- I respect any woman's decision to wear one, as well as a woman's decision to take it off. It's a deeply personal matter and what I object to is how women are caught between those two pressures,

the Muslim preoccupation

with the female body and female sexuality that frames social narratives of hijab today, and the fear, guilt and shame of veiling/unveiling as a result of that fixation.

Disregarding the 'tent-like' Somali gambis, women covering up is indeed central to the Islamic faith. However, as an adult, it's upon one's free will to wear or not. I am fully aware that such free-will may be constrained in some Islamic societies as well as Christian countries like France.

 

'Muslim preoccupation of the female body'? Aren't you being extreme there. Of course, It's man's indefatigable nature to seek solace in woman's body in times of sexual drought irrespective of ethnic origin. But, a semi-naked Scarlet Johannson will probably incite tempestuous sexual keenness of even the least manly or the sexually-deprived compared to a modestly-dressed Scarlet. It's human nature or should I say man's nature. And that's why Islam calls for both sexes to modestly dress so as to avoid such temptations outside the allowed arenas.

[tutu]

Safferz;989023 wrote:

Beklager, tutu

Det er helt i orden.

[tutu]

dp

[thefuturenow]

Safferz;989021 wrote:

Like I said, agency is in the freedom to choose and make the decision on one's own terms, and that's what I celebrate, whether that's to wear hijab, not to wear hijab, or to take one's hijab off.

I'm as troubled by societal contexts where hijab is legally or culturally sanctioned for women - like Saudi Arabia, or our own Somalia - as I am by societal contexts where the hijab/niqab is banned, as in France.

Autonomy over one's body, and the freedom to make the decision to wear or not wear a hijab free of coercion and force, is what I support.

First, the societal context where the xijaab is legally sanctioned is the Islamic context. The implementation of an Islamic vision in a society requires the adoption of certain codes of conduct. It requires the prevention of certain behaviors which may lead to detrimental societal outcomes. The French have chosen to ban the burqa because their ideology informs them that such behavior will limit the woman's ability to exercise autonomy over her body. In this cultural and legal context, the individual is the rightful owner of his/her body and that right shall not be curtailed. The Muslim believes otherwise. The body is a trust from God which is best handled in the manner prescribed by God. Yes, this is each person's individual responsibility. Still, there is a collective duty to command what is good and forbid what is wrong. The Qur'an has clearly demarcated between the good and the wrong for the purposeful direction of a Muslim society. In other words, the culturally and legally sanctioned position for the Muslim is to be covered. It is no different than adhering to France's rule of law while in France.

 

Second, the hijaab is not about women. It is about modesty in the public space. How many Saudi/Somali men do you see walking around in running shorts with their thighs showing? Don't you think we would like to walk around showing our six pack ribs? This notion that women are oppressed under the hijaab (head cover in this context) is intellectually lazy and ludicrous. If the issue is about the restriction of one's autonomy over the body, then let's talk about tattoos, let's talk about the prohibition to wear silk or gold, or the admonition against plucking one's eyebrows. Certainly, these limitations seem far more egregious than one that at least allows you to hide a bad hair day. Yet, they are rarely discussed because they are less an overt and, thus, less threatening symbol of the Islamic cultural and legal understanding of individual freedom and physical autonomy. The hijab stands in stark defiance of the non-Muslim's conception of life and liberty. Today, it stands as a protest against the hypersexualization and objectification of the female body in societies where tight jeans and short shorts are culturally and legally sanctioned.

[Safferz]

tutu;989025 wrote:

'Muslim preoccupation of the female body'? Aren't you being extreme there.

Of course, It's man's indefatigable nature to seek solace in woman's body in times of sexual drought irrespective of ethnic origin. But, a semi-naked Scarlet Johannson will probably incite tempestuous sexual keenness of even the least manly or the sexually-deprived compared to a modestly-dressed Scarlet. It's human nature or should I say man's nature. And that's why Islam calls for both sexes to modestly dress so as to avoid such temptations outside the allowed arenas.

I'm not saying Muslims are unique in this, but there is certainly a fixation with and investment in women's dress in Muslim dominant societies, and Marksman was correct to point out that it's about social control. It also has the effect of creating deeply repressed sexual cultures, to the extent that overt sexual harassment is often more of an issue in countries where women are covered from head to toe than in countries like the US. Any woman who goes to an Arab country can tell you this. I've also been back home a few times now and can say without question that I've experienced more harassment by men in Somalia while completely covered than I have in my usual clothing in the West. I disagree with thefutureisnow completely when he says hijab "protests" hypersexualization and objectification of the female body, it simply hypersexualizes and objectifies women's bodies differently. And I'm sorry but until either of you has a female body and experiences it in the world inside and outside of a hijab, you will never fully understand this.

 

thefuturenow;989029 wrote:

Second, the hijaab is not about women.

It is about modesty in the public space.

How many Saudi/Somali men do you see walking around in running shorts with their thighs showing? Don't you think we would like to walk around showing our six pack ribs?

This notion that women are oppressed under the hijaab (head cover in this context) is intellectually lazy and ludicrous.

If the issue is about the restriction of one's autonomy over the body, then let's talk about tattoos, let's talk about the prohibition to wear silk or gold, or the admonition against plucking one's eyebrows. Certainly, these limitations seem far more egregious than one that at least allows you to hide a bad hair day. Yet, they are rarely discussed because they are less an overt and, thus, less threatening symbol of the Islamic cultural and legal understanding of individual freedom and physical autonomy. The hijab stands in stark defiance of the non-Muslim's conception of life and liberty. T

oday, it stands as a protest against the hypersexualization and objectification of the female body in societies where tight jeans and short shorts are culturally and legally sanctioned.

What you're describing is an ideal -- what many hijabis describe as their reasons for wearing hijab, and how hijab is *intended* to function in society, but what you're missing is that this simply isn't true in practice for many Muslim women and many Muslim societies, or even in many Muslim families in the diaspora (see guleed's belief above that one can force a daughter to wear hijab). There's a huge difference between a young woman in Norway who chooses to wear hijab and a young woman in Saudi Arabia who legally *must* wear a hijab. I'm not sure why you're unable to see this, or seem to think the notion of hijab being used to oppress in some places/contexts is a ridiculous one. It's a fact.

 

Anyway, we are approaching page 3, which is where I've been known to abandon threads, and I'll be honest and admit I'm already losing interest in the discussion. Nothing personal, it's just an exhausting topic. But I wanted to share a clip from Leila Ahmed that's of relevance, a very good scholar who wrote a book on the history of the veil quite recently:

 

 

[magicbird]

Haven't seen the video, but I can tell this child needs dhaqan celis. As for what she said about being Norwegian, Somalis need to understand that there'll always be just a scummy Somali. It doesn't matter how much you whitewash yourself, call yourself Ozzy or Mo, 'integrate' as much as you like, take off the hijab, adopt their liberal ways, they'll never 'see' or even notice you. As it states in the quran 'And the Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you, until you follow their religion.' Even then you'll never be their equal, and you'll always be remembered as the person with no principles.

And the other thing is nowadays hijab is basically just like an cimaamad. Hijab is meant to be for the whole body, so you could say some other girls ruined it for this one.

[AfricaOwn]

^^Sometimes I wonder if these obnoxious characters are like that in person or do they only feel empowered behind their cpu screen - is pathetic really.

[Khayr]

Where are the pro-hijabi sisters these days?

 

If you chose to disobey God OPENLY and PROUDLY, then where can we establish trust and respect. Those things become interchangable and relative based on our emotions and thoughts.

Love me today and despise me tomorrow best describes that wave of emotions.

 

It is not acceptable to spread فُسُق (moral corruption) openly.

[Safferz]

Apophis;989044 wrote:

At Hawdian:

 

 

At Hawdian....again:

 

 

At Classified:

 

 

At Khayr:

 

 

At Africaown:

 

 

Yeah....

I was clear in my post that I respond in kind, to you, to Hawdian, to Classified, to anyone else. I also have more than a few people blocked in PMs due to the same harassment in PMs. You of all people should know this, since you apologized for the insults quite recently and I accepted that and moved on. I don't have the time to dig up the comments I was replying to there or the types of comments I reply to from you folks on a daily basis, but whoever is interested is free to browse their posting histories or click the blue icon next to each out of context quote Apophis posted to see what I was referring to. I don't apologize for defending myself and responding to rudeness with rudeness.

[Safferz]

Apophis;989062 wrote:

I harassed you in PMs? I must have done it while sleep trolling.

No, not you.