US Iran deal, the Isolation of Israel and the New Shia power

[Khadafi]

 

I firmly believe that the reason why the Egyptians and the rest of the Arabs are in the state they're in.....is because they turned away from their religion and they sought to establish secular states, burying Islam so as to make it irrelevant. You've seen them establish their secular political parties (such as the infamous Ba'ath Party of Iraq and Syria) and look at what these policies have achieved in the region! Nothing but instability, poor economic performance, wars and the like.

 

 

.

Ditoore, I dont know if you have ever been to Egypt but nobody forbids you to pray in the mosque, Though if your trying to get power, weather your an islamist, secular or communist whats certain that you will rot in some prison cell. If Sheikhs were the answer then Saudia Arabia would be answer right? The constitution of Saudia Arabia is as they say 100% based upon Sharia. Just as your video of Qaradawi, I do agree with him that we have not seen even a needle being produced by the gulf.

 

Nassers Egypt was not 100% perfect but during his time the arabs could draw some inspiration from it. They (Egyptians) have gone from inspiration to zero influence. Remember that Egypt is the bread basket and cultural capital of the arab World.

[Haatu]

Khadafi;987785 wrote:

Ditoore, I dont know if you have ever been to Egypt but nobody forbids you to pray in the mosque, Though if your trying to get power, weather your an islamist, secular or communist whats certain that you will rot in some prison cell. If Sheikhs were the answer then Saudia Arabia would be answer right? The constitution of Saudia Arabia is as they say 100% based upon Sharia.

And in anything over which you disagree - its ruling is [to be referred] to Allah . [say], "That is Allah , my Lord; upon Him I have relied, and to Him I turn back." 42:10

 

From an Islamic point of view, the Sheikhs ARE the answer.

[DoctorKenney]

Khadafi;987785 wrote:

Ditoore, I dont know if you have ever been to Egypt but nobody forbids you to pray in the mosque, Though if your trying to get power, weather your an islamist, secular or communist whats certain that you will rot in some prison cell. If Sheikhs were the answer then Saudia Arabia would be answer right? The constitution of Saudia Arabia is as they say 100% based upon Sharia. Just as your video of Qaradawi, I do agree with him that we have not seen even a needle being produced by the gulf.

 

Nassers Egypt was not 100% perfect but during his time the arabs could draw some inspiration from it. They (Egyptians) have gone from inspiration to zero influence. Remember that Egypt is the bread basket and cultural capital of the arab World.

Khadafi I never claimed that people are forbidden to pray at the mosque. And no, Saudi Arabia is not based on anything; just because someone is claiming it, doesn't make it true. Saudi Arabia deserves to be criticized as do all the other countries I've mentioned.

 

And when we acknowledge the fact that Arabs don't even produce a single car, or a plane, or a ship, you have to ask yourself why it's like this. And why these countries are so destitute. And Sheikh Qaradawi gave the answer. It's because of laziness and ineptitude, and because they turned away from their religion.

 

And Egypt was not even 30% perfect during the time of Nasser and Sadat. Their countries were still poor, they still never produced anything, and they were whipped by the Israelis in several wars. They had nothing to boast about, and the reason why you may think this is because Nasser was a charismatic leader. But charisma doesn't mean results. And he got no results

 

I know you agree with me and Haatu here

 

But this is so seriously off-topic. This is way too off-topic.

[thefuturenow]

LOL ^ 27 minutes a day! Brother, qosol baa u dhimaan gaaray.

 

Somaliidu waa sida and increasingly so. However, I hope the qurbo-joog can bring back a little work ethic with them.

[N.O.R.F]

What does Saudi Arabia want?

 

Saudi officials fear that, at best, the US is not interested in curbing Iranian influence and, at worst, actively seeking a return to the days of the Shah, with Iran serving as policeman of the Gulf at the expense of the so-called Sunni Arab monarchies.

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/11/what-does-saudi-arabia-want-201311186368635816.html

[thefuturenow]

Khadafi;987785 wrote:

Ditoore, I dont know if you have ever been to Egypt but nobody forbids you to pray in the mosque, Though if your trying to get power, weather your an islamist, secular or communist whats certain that you will rot in some prison cell. If Sheikhs were the answer then Saudia Arabia would be answer right? The constitution of Saudia Arabia is as they say 100% based upon Sharia. Just as your video of Qaradawi, I do agree with him that we have not seen even a needle being produced by the gulf.

 

Nassers Egypt was not 100% perfect but during his time the arabs could draw some inspiration from it. They (Egyptians) have gone from inspiration to zero influence. Remember that Egypt is the bread basket and cultural capital of the arab World.

 

What is with people equating Islam with Saudi Arabia?

War, the place is the exact damn opposite. It's Islam as a dress but what's inside is rotten.

 

The only losers in this agreement btw is Israel and their allies, KSA & other gulf powers.

[Khadafi]

I never claimed that people are forbidden to pray at the mosque. And no, Saudi Arabia is not based on anything; just because someone is claiming it, doesn't make it true. Saudi Arabia deserves to be criticized as do all the other countries I've mentioned.

 

just because someone is claiming it, doesn't make it true. Saudi Arabia deserves to be criticized as do all the other countries I've mentioned.

Ditoore, Your man of ideal's and I love that but sometimes you need to smell the fresh coffee of realism. I have always loved ideals but sometimes they don't add up to reality. What I am trying to say ditoore is that islamic ideals with justice and piety is always good and ever lasting ideals but man is always doomed to fail by his temptations. It's a catchy phrase to say that Islam is the solution but when you ask that person further questions like "what do you exactly mean by that statement?, the answer becomes subjective, meaning that you can understand it in the way you want

 

For a example, a Turkish AKP-supporter would probably also say your cathcy phrase but his way of understanding it, is far from Al-qaedas, or Taliban, or even the muslim brotherhood. outlook on the phrase. The turkish AKP islamists are far far away from the islamists of Al-shabaab. Do you see my point?

 

Regarding Saudia Arabia, the only reason that I mentioned it was to make you understand how easy it is to use the beautiful name of Islam in order to boost up your credentials or even your politics. Did you know that Morrocos kings formal title is "Amiirul Mu'minin" (Commander of the Belivers). He legitimizes his rule by his claim by the formal "bayca" that take place in Morocco every year. You would probably object to his claims. Islaam, and faith in Allah is far above from the dirty realms of politics but it's ideals of justice and piety is everlasting. I have a firm belief that it is these ideals that will be a solution to our problems.

 

So where do I stand in these issues? Well to begin with as I have said I have firm belif that the ideals of Islam is always needed in our society. We are lacking in education but we have a few countries that are a role model. Malaysia is a muslim countrey and are dynamic well functioning society. They were in the league of Africa in the 1960 but are now a high tech countrey that could be compared to the US or Europe. Let's find their recipe and how they did it.

 

And Sheikh Qaradawi gave the answer. It's because of laziness and ineptitude, and because they turned away from their religion.

I agree with you on this point, maybe we have failed the religious obligation to seek knowledge? I'am not an expert to say why arabs or even africans in general are in stagnation but quick answers would be apologetical factors like colonialism?. But so many years has gone since we attained our freedom, we cant simply always blame colonialism.

 

And Egypt was not even 30% perfect during the time of Nasser and Sadat. Their countries were still poor, they still never produced anything, and they were whipped by the Israelis in several wars. They had nothing to boast about, and the reason why you may

think

this is because Nasser was a charismatic leader. But charisma doesn't mean results. And he got no results

Your 100% correct, he failed in a sense regarding Israel but have you forgotten the suez crisis and how he managed to fight back imperialist aspirations? Another thing historically is that FNL in Algeria successfully one the war in 1963 at the cost of 2 millions dead Algerians. Nasser's anti-imperialist support and rhetoric was needed to ignite the Algerians, remember that France thought that Algeria was not a colony because of the 2 million french settlers. to sum it up, What I meant to say that Egypt's cultural influence is minimal in comparison to the 70-ties.

 

I know you agree with me and Haatu here

I probably agree with you in most issues but Haatu is another story.

 

But this is so seriously off-topic. This is way too off-topic

I agree but hey that is a discussion forum, marka ha la hadlo

[Jacpher]

Who knew Saudis and Israel would be on the same page, a united front against the West making any deal with Iran.

 

Iran is playing its cards now. Only time will tell.

[Khayr]

لَّا يَتَّخِذِ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ الْكَافِرِينَ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِن دُونِ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَمَن يَفْعَلْ ذَٰلِكَ فَلَيْسَ مِنَ اللَّهِ فِي شَيْءٍ إِلَّا أَن تَتَّقُوا مِنْهُمْ تُقَاةً وَيُحَذِّرُكُمُ اللَّهُ نَفْسَهُ وَإِلَى اللَّهِ الْمَصِيرُ

 

Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming.

 

There is no ambiguity there as Allah is firm about this. However; the Saud (with their Wahabi supporters) don't have a problem with having "allies", so long as they keep their riches.

[Saalax]

Arabs might be lazy but they are in a better position than Somalis. Lost to Ethiopia in 1977 and

their so called "shifta uprising" was crashed by Kenya.

[DoctorKenney]

Saalax;988027 wrote:

Arabs might be lazy but they are in a better position than Somalis. Lost to Ethiopia in 1977 and

their so called "shifta uprising" was crashed by Kenya.

I'm sure the Somali Army of 1977 didn't consist of Northerners (Somalis originating from Hargeisa and Berbera) at all.

 

The entire Somali Army of 1977 consisted of southerners and that's why they lost the war. All 70 000 of them.

 

And you wonder why you're always trashed and insulted on this forum? You do this to yourself wallahi, have some self-respect

[DoctorKenney]

Khadafi you're right in the sense that "Islamist" can mean anything from an Al Qaeda supporter, to an Ikhwan member, to an AKP supporter, to anything in between. And sometimes it's rather a vague term. The AKP of Turkey would be considered secular if they were in another country, like Saudi Arabia for example.

 

I don't believe that everything is going to be perfect, that if we move towards Islam everything is going to be perfect and fine. But it'll be in the right direction. And a government that implements these ideals fully or even partially would be a great improvement. And the people themselves need to live a life in accordance to it. Not just the government, but the people themselves should be more inclined to their religion. People get the government they deserve. And if the people are upstanding, then it'll be easy for the government to be upstanding as well. And I agree with you, that Malaysia is an excellent country to emulate.

 

Egyptian cultural influence is minimal compared to 40 or 50 years ago, but Egypt over the past couple decades has been reduced to nothing more than a tourist destination. It's not a world power, they don't have a vibrant economy, and the Westerners know Egypt as nothing more than a land with ancient artefacts and museums. That's what Egypt has been reduced to.

 

We both see the problem, we're just trying to understand why it's like this, and how would they change course

[guleed_ali]

DoctorKenney;988039 wrote:

Khadafi you're right in the sense that "Islamist" can mean anything from an Al Qaeda supporter, to an Ikhwan member, to an AKP supporter, to anything in between. And sometimes it's rather a vague term. The AKP of Turkey would be considered secular if they were in another country, like Saudi Arabia for example.

 

I don't believe that everything is going to be perfect, that if we move towards Islam everything is going to be perfect and fine. But it'll be in the right direction. And a government that implements these ideals fully or even partially would be a great improvement. And the people themselves need to live a life in accordance to it. Not just the government, but the people themselves should be more inclined to their religion. People get the government they deserve. And if the people are upstanding, then it'll be easy for the government to be upstanding as well. And I agree with you, that Malaysia is an excellent country to emulate.

 

Egyptian cultural influence is minimal compared to 40 or 50 years ago, but Egypt over the past couple decades has been reduced to nothing more than a tourist destination. It's not a world power, they don't have a vibrant economy, and the Westerners know Egypt as nothing more than a land with ancient artefacts and museums. That's what Egypt has been reduced to.

 

We both see the problem, we're just trying to understand

why

it's like this, and how would they change course

I'll have to disagree with you here Dr. K Egypt is a knowledge haven. Egyptians comprise a number of intellectual elites. Even their religious scholars juggle two or three other degrees. I recall a Chemical Engineering PHD holder acquiring another Doctorate in Sharia from Alazhar all while not being allowed to enter a government building because of his beard (That's another story for another thread). There are many examples of how educated Egyptians are. Just ask any Somali aged 55 to 70 and they'd most likely encountered a few Egyptian teachers during their formative years. The reason Egypt has behind set back is because Mubarak and his cronies have essentially drained the country of any Financial independence (oppression to the nth degree). The Suez canal was essentially given away and the income that is derived from it was pretty much forfeited. Egypt is a pillar of the Muslim world and I ask Allah to bring it back to where it once was when Prophet Yusuf calyhi asalam ruled over this great nation.

[ElPunto]

N.O.R.F;987809 wrote:

What does Saudi Arabia want?

 

Saudi officials fear that, at best, the US is not interested in curbing Iranian influence and, at worst, actively seeking a return to the days of the Shah, with Iran serving as policeman of the Gulf at the expense of the so-called Sunni Arab monarchies.

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/11/what-does-saudi-arabia-want-201311186368635816.html

They want to be the only Muslim power in the Middle East and the only interlocutor the Americans deal with. And they don't want a rival Shia power that may inspire their own Shia minority to rise up for a better deal.

 

Muslims are so divided - everything is a zero sum game. Same with Somalis - if qabiil hebel is in power my qabiil is done for and vice-versa.

[DoctorKenney]

Guleed there's nothing that I said that you actually disagreed with. It's a fact that Egypt is a nation with an awful economy and few opportunities.

 

All this goes to show is the horrendous mismanagement and incompetence of Mubarak, Sadat, and Nasser when these men squandered the incredible potential of Egypt and drained the country of it's resources. The large number of Egyptians who are educated, many of them can't even find work in their field and the job market is terrible. Again, this is the fault of the entire system of government.

 

May Allah return Egypt to what it once was, and raise their status again. Ameen