Islam banned in Angola

[DoctorKenney]

^^ Safferz, he was being sarcastic looool. Haatu wasn't serious

[Safferz]

DoctorKenney;987670 wrote:

^^ Safferz, he was being sarcastic looool. Haatu wasn't serious

He better be :mad: But I've seen a lot of threads with folks here claiming Somali Christians don't exist, which is why I took the posts in this thread seriously (that, and I haven't had coffee yet today)

[DoctorKenney]

But the number of Somali Christians are so insignificant that you almost don't wanna mention it. They're too few and far between.

 

You're more likely to meet a White American Cowboy in the streets of Galkaacyo than meet a Somali Christian

[Alpha Blondy]

this is ridiculous. we all know about Angola's incredible economic growth in recent years but they gain absolute nothing from banning Islam.

[Safferz]

DoctorKenney;987675 wrote:

But the number of Somali Christians are so insignificant that you almost don't wanna mention it. They're too few and far between.

 

You're more likely to meet a White American Cowboy in the streets of Galkaacyo than meet a Somali Christian

They are few in number but quite influential, particularly in Somaliland's history. I'm just not down with the erasure of Somalia's diversity and complexity, you see it in different and less subtle ways in other discussions (see Somali Bantu thread for example) but the assumptions made about Islam in Somalia are also in that vein. But that's a discussion for another thread, I think

[Haatu]

Safferz;987667 wrote:

lol you know the guy behind it all? Is he responsible for the Christianity of historical Somalis like Michael Mariano, Anthony James, Peter Raymond, etc too? We've had Somali Christians for at least two centuries, a minority certainly but you cannot say they don't exist.

A few individuals might exist here and there, but there is no "community" to speak off. And I actually do know the guy behind it all. I owe my cush life in the West to him () so believe me when I say it's mostly maryooleys making a quick buck.

[Haatu]

Safferz;987679 wrote:

They are few in number but quite influential, particularly in Somaliland's history. I'm just not down with the erasure of Somalia's diversity and complexity, you see it in different and less subtle ways in other discussions (see Somali Bantu thread for example) but the assumptions made about Islam in Somalia are also in that vein. But that's a discussion for another thread, I think

Make that thread. I shall have a field day. All my favourite topics in one

[Jacpher]

Naxar Nugaaleed;987646 wrote:

I guess the Islamic republics of Saudi arabia, Pakistan and Iran are secular republics

Re-read my post again.

[Jacpher]

Safferz;987667 wrote:

lol you know the guy behind it all? Is he responsible for the Christianity of historical Somalis like Michael Mariano, Anthony James, Peter Raymond, etc too? We've had Somali Christians for at least two centuries, a minority certainly but you cannot say they don't exist.

I don't call three people out of a population of over ten million a minority. In terms of numbers, they don't exist. Three pennies out of ten million, people stop gambling.

[Safferz]

Jacpher;987688 wrote:

I don't call three people out of a population of over ten million a minority. In terms of numbers, they don't exist. Three pennies out of ten million, people stop gambling.

Fortunately, that's not how math works, or the law in its extension of rights to and protection of minority groups, for that matter. I only listed three recognizable names for anyone familiar with Somali history btw, that's not to say there are that few Somali Christians -- and to disagree with Haatu, one can identify two distinct Somali Christian communities historically that interacted with one another.

 

Haatu;987683 wrote:

Make that thread. I shall have a field day. All my favourite topics in one

Let me get through this hell week first, I would hate to start a thread like that with no time to destroy all of you in debate and historical discussion Should be done writing this paper on Tuesday, so I'll do it then.

[Jacpher]

^Stop pretending these are real number. In the real world, these are marginal errors.

 

No matter how famous these names sound to you, the larger part of the country, Somali and gaal don't go together.

[Safferz]

Jacpher;987716 wrote:

^Stop pretending these are real number. In the real world, these are marginal errors.

 

No matter how famous these names sound to you, the larger part of the country, Somali and gaal don't go together.

lol, I'm sorry to break it to you but "in the real world" they exist, regardless of your need to erase the existence, histories and lives of people and families who are both Somali and Christian by claiming their statistical insignificance. I don't really care that this seems to personally offend you, your butthurt doesn't change history and fact. No use in continuing this discussion, circular logic is exhausting and pointless to reason with.

[Hawdian]

Safferz who are the historic Christian somali community and do they still exist and in which city , town regions In HOA . Are you a member of the somali Christian community. Could you come with facts numbers instead if three people who converted during the colonial time .

[Safferz]

Hawdian;987746 wrote:

Safferz who are the historic Christian somali community and do they still exist and in which city , town regions In HOA . Are you a member of the somali Christian community. Could you come with facts numbers instead if three people who converted during the colonial time .

Hawdian, you of all people should be aware of this, as the Somali Christians that date to the 19th and early 20th century are mostly from your region in particular. I am not a Christian, but my ayeeyo - who like you is from Ceerigaabo - is related to a number of Somali Christian families, and there are islaamo in my family with names like Margaret. Regardless of what Jacpher seems to think, Michael Mariano is a well known figure who was one of the leaders in British Somaliland's nationalist movement for independence, and lead the campaign to have the Haud region returned to Somaliland. This is the first of the Somali Christian communities I was alluding to, the second is that in Italian Somaliland and Roman Catholicism, such as the children of Italian settlers who took Somali wives.

 

Anyway, I'm not sure why I've been sucked into an argument over the existence of Somali Christians, these are historical and social facts regardless of whether some people here find it uncomfortable or unsettling to their rigid notions of who and what a Somali is.

[Safferz]

To get back on topic... Angola didn't ban Islam, they just ban political opposition:

 

Angola Denies It Banned Islam, Destroyed Mosques

 

Angola became a hot topic in the international media over the weekend, as news outlets around the world wrote about reports that the Southwest African nation had banned Islam and had begun to dismantle mosques.

 

But an official at the Angolan Embassy in Washington, D.C., who did not want to be identified while discussing the sensitive matter, said that there is no such ban, and that the reports are erroneous.

 

“The Republic of Angola … it’s a country that does not interfere in religion,” the official said via telephone Monday afternoon. “We have a lot of religions there. It is freedom of religion. We have Catholic, Protestants, Baptists, Muslims and evangelical people.”

 

News of Angola’s supposed ban on Islam originated in the African press, which went so far as to quote the nation’s president and minister of culture offering statements that suggested the premise of the reports was accurate.

 

A second official at the Angolan Embassy in the U.S. reiterated that the diplomatic seat has not been made aware of any ban on Islam in the country.

 

“At the moment we don’t have any information about that,” the official told IBTimes via phone on Monday. “We’re reading about it just like you on the Internet. We don’t have any notice that what you’re reading on the Internet is true.”

 

A close examination of some of the initial reports about the supposed ban and dismantling of mosques reveals some suspect findings. One such discrepancy is that a Google Images search shows that a photograph published by numerous news outlets this month that purportedly depicts the minaret of an Angolan mosque being dismantled in October 2012 had been used at least as early Jan. 23, 2008, when the Housing & Land Rights Network posted it to illustrate an article about the destruction of Bedouin homes in Israel.

 

The officials at the Angolan Embassy in Washington could not attest to the veracity of the comments attributed to officials in Angola seemingly affirming the Islam ban, which outlets including IBTimes had referenced in initial stories on the reports published over the weekend.

 

Angolan President José Eduardo dos Santos reportedly weighed in on the controversy, as he was quoted in Nigeria's Osun Defender newspaper on Sunday as saying, "This is the final end of Islamic influence in our country," according to a report by the website OnIslam.net, which was accompanied by the suspect photo supposedly depicting the Angolan mosque’s minaret being dismantled in October of last year.

 

“The president has been out of the country for a week,” the first Angolan Embassy official mentioned above said, contending that as such he could not have made the remarks as they were reported.

 

Weekly French-language Moroccan newspaper La Nouvelle Tribune published an article on Friday sourcing "several" Angolan officials, including the minister of Culture, Rosa Cruz, who reportedly offered the following remarks, which have been translated from French: "The process of legalization of Islam has not been approved by the Ministry of Justice and Human Rights. Their mosques would be closed until further notice."

 

OnIslam.net reports that the African economic news agency Agence Ecofin wrote that Cruz made the statement at an appearance last week before the 6th Commission of the National Assembly. The website goes on to note that, "According to several Angolan newspapers, Angola has become the first country in the world to ban Islam and Muslims, taking first measures by destroying mosques in the country."

 

The first Angolan Embassy official denied knowledge that Cruz had made such comments.

 

“I cannot confirm if the Minister of Culture said that. I cannot find that in our press,” the official said.

 

La Nouvelle Tribune also reported that a minaret of an Angolan mosque was dismantled last October, and that the city of Zango "has gone further by destroying the only mosque in the city." The Embassy officials could not authenticate either of these claims.

 

Angola is a majority-Christian nation of about 16 million people, of whom an estimated 55 percent are Catholic, 25 percent belong to African Christian denominations, 10 percent follow major Protestant traditions and 5 percent belong to Brazilian Evangelical churches. Only 80,000 to 90,000 Angolans are Muslim, according to the U.S. State Department.