Do Muslim Women Need Saving? The Western crusade to rescue Muslim women has reduced them to a simpl

[Khayr]

Saff,

 

You just want us to validate any pseudo intellectual whose ideas you espouse to and whose values you share with more than the

orthodox muslim.

[Khayr]

"Ph.D students are only allowed to singe the tune that doesn't disrupt the chorus".

 

An excellent point. Yasir Qadhi's Thesis on Ibn Tymiyas work comes to mind. After he finished his thesis, he proclaimed enlightment and stated that he was no longer a Salafi. Doctrate earned

[Safferz]

Khayr;986112 wrote:

Saff,

 

You just

want us to validate

any

pseudo intellectual

whose ideas you

espouse to

and whose

values you share with

more than the

orthodox muslim

.

What does this sentence even mean?

[Raamsade]

guleed_ali;986092 wrote:

I'm still looking for the discrimination laws that protect Muslims.

Laws against discrimination on the following grounds: race, religion, place of origin, etc. All benefit muslims. The sad irony is that there are no comparable laws in any Islamic country. And yet countless hours and gallons of ink are wasted on lamenting discrimination against Muslims in the West. How about we spend half of the time and energy on critiquing the discrimination against Muslims (Shias, Ahmidiyas, Ismailis, Sufis, etc) and non-Muslims in the Islamic countries. At least those transgressions are a matter of life and death not a matter of quality of life as in the West.

 

 

guleed_ali;986092 wrote:

You know the ones that don't screen my name for job with security clearance, the ones that are comfortable with me not shaking hands with female interviewers, the ones that don't question how often I go to the Middle East or Somali etc.

But you know why that is; your brothers in Islam have decided to wage an all-out war against the West using all means including hiding among civilians. So if you're under extra scrutiny, blame your fellow Muslims. I have plenty of relatives who go to Somalia often, no body questions let alone notices them. Unless you fit the profile, young Somalis going to Somalia post-Alshabaab era, then you got nothing to fret about.

 

 

guleed_ali;986092 wrote:

Once you take me for who I am which a Muslim first and a (fill in nationality here) second that's when I'll be grateful. The people I fled don't represent Islam and the people I fled to also don't represent Islam. No matter where I am, I know that I'm a slave to Allah first. So quit putting people on a pedestal and recognize that the "right way" to do things is to follow the words of Allah and the message of his beloved Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم).

But you are not and CAN NOT be Muslim first in the 21st century. You can't even do your Hajj by proclaiming "I am Muslim First," at the airport, no one will let you in. So be humble and take other people's perspectives into consideration. You can live your life as Muslim First as long as you understand others don't agree with that.

 

And sorry but Islam is as Muslims do. There is no other Islam. What you see is what you get. The other Islam is mythical, theoretical Islam but such Islam doesn't impact the real world. Islam as practiced by Muslims is the only real Islam. Theoretical Islam accessible by means of esoteric knowledge might as well have never existed or written. Who cares what's in the Quran or how the Prophet lived if no body follows it?

 

So yaa aakhi, open your eyes (brain) and take note that there is no Allah. And if there is Allah, He should first stop tormenting poor people with Cyclones and Typhoons; there is too much gratuitous suffering in this world against the existence of caring God. So join me in the fight against medievalism, obscurantism, insanity, daftness, drinking urine tainted camel-milk, Brittany Spears, the World Cup, Mickey Mouse (there was a fatwa against Mickey Mouse) and all that is good in this world.

[thefuturenow]

SubxaanaAllah. May Allah Guide us all.

[guleed_ali]

Raamsade;986117 wrote:

Laws against discrimination on the following grounds: race, religion, place of origin, etc. All benefit muslims. The sad irony is that there are no comparable laws in any Islamic country. And yet countless hours and gallons of ink are wasted on lamenting discrimination against Muslims in the West. How about we spend half of the time and energy on critiquing the discrimination against Muslims (Shias, Ahmidiyas, Ismailis, Sufis, etc) and non-Muslims in the Islamic countries. At least those transgressions are a matter of life and death not a matter of quality of life as in the West.

 

 

 

 

But you know why that is; your brothers in Islam have decided to wage an all-out war against the West using all means including hiding among civilians. So if you're under extra scrutiny, blame your fellow Muslims. I have plenty of relatives who go to Somalia often, no body questions let alone notices them. Unless you fit the profile, young Somalis going to Somalia post-Alshabaab era, then you got nothing to fret about.

 

 

 

 

But you are not and CAN NOT be Muslim first in the 21st century. You can't even do your Hajj by proclaiming "I am Muslim First," at the airport, no one will let you in. So be humble and take other people's perspectives into consideration. You can live your life as Muslim First as long as you understand others don't agree with that.

 

And sorry but Islam is as Muslims do. There is no other Islam. What you see is what you get. The other Islam is mythical, theoretical Islam but such Islam doesn't impact the real world. Islam as practiced by Muslims is the only real Islam. Theoretical Islam accessible by means of esoteric knowledge might as well have never existed or written. Who cares what's in the Quran or how the Prophet lived if no body follows it?

 

So yaa aakhi, open your eyes (brain) and take note

that there is no Allah

. And if there is Allah, He should first stop tormenting poor people with Cyclones and Typhoons; there is too much gratuitous suffering in this world against the existence of caring God. So join me in the fight against medievalism, obscurantism, insanity, daftness, drinking urine tainted camel-milk, Brittany Spears, the World Cup, Mickey Mouse (there was a fatwa against Mickey Mouse) and all that is good in this world.

That's all I need to know! May Allah guide you.... because at this point this is the only duaa' I can make for you as a non-believer! Fellow sol'ers take note Raam is the person you don't want to be!

[thefuturenow]

guleed_ali;986132 wrote:

That's all I need to know! May Allah guide you.... because at this point this is the only duaa' I can make for you as a non-believer! Fellow sol'ers take note Raam is the person you don't want to be!

 

I contemplated responding to each of Raam's points, but it seemed futile. Btw upon the previous discussion those that will never accept you until you join their ranks, I found this quote about Ayaan Hirsi by her husband Niall Ferguson on Wikipedia:

 

"Ferguson dedicated his book Civilization to "Ayaan". In an interview with The Guardian, Ferguson spoke about his love for Ali, who, he writes in the preface, "understands better than anyone I know what Western civilisation really means – and what it still has to offer the world".[17] Ali, he continued,

 

...grew up in the Muslim world, was born in Somalia, spent time in Saudi Arabia, was a fundamentalist as a teenager. Her journey from the world of her childhood and family to where she is today is an odyssey that's extremely hard for you or I [sic] to imagine. To see and hear how she understands western philosophy, how she understands the great thinkers of the Enlightenment, of the 19th-century liberal era, is a great privilege, because she sees it with a clarity and freshness of perspective that's really hard for us to match. So much of liberalism in its classical sense is taken for granted in the west today and even disrespected. We take freedom for granted, and because of this we don't understand how incredibly vulnerable it is.[17]"

 

 

I laughed because it was the only reaction that a concoction of overwhelming sadness, pity, fear and amusement could produce.

[Safferz]

thefuturenow;986134 wrote:

I contemplated responding to each of Raam's points, but it seemed futile. Btw upon the previous discussion of neo-cons and neo-libs, I found this quote about Ayaan Hirsi by her husband Niall Ferguson on Wikipedia:

 

"Ferguson dedicated his book Civilization to "Ayaan". In an interview with The Guardian, Ferguson spoke about his love for Ali, who, he writes in the preface, "understands better than anyone I know what Western civilisation really means – and what it still has to offer the world".[17] Ali, he continued,

 

...grew up in the Muslim world, was born in Somalia, spent time in Saudi Arabia, was a fundamentalist as a teenager. Her journey from the world of her childhood and family to where she is today is an odyssey that's extremely hard for you or I [sic] to imagine. To see and hear how she understands western philosophy, how she understands the great thinkers of the Enlightenment, of the 19th-century liberal era, is a great privilege, because she sees it with a clarity and freshness of perspective that's really hard for us to match. So much of liberalism in its classical sense is taken for granted in the west today and even disrespected. We take freedom for granted, and because of this we don't understand how incredibly vulnerable it is.[17]"

 

 

I laughed because it was the only reaction that a concoction of overwhelming sadness, pity, fear and amusement could produce.

Two douchebags who deserve each other. But at least Niall writes his own books

 

Raamsade, are you Hobbesian_Brute?

[thefuturenow]

Safferz;986135 wrote:

Two douchebags who deserve each other. But at least Niall writes his own books

 

Raamsade, are you Hobbesian_Brute?

 

 

Brute or not, he should have someone write a book for him.

[STOIC]

Khayr;986114 wrote:

"Ph.D students are only allowed to singe the tune that doesn't disrupt the chorus".

 

An excellent point. Yasir Qadhi's Thesis on Ibn Tymiyas work comes to mind. After he finished his thesis, he proclaimed enlightment and stated that he was no longer a Salafi. Doctrate earned

Yaser Qadhi didn't change because of his PHD from Yale.I think he is more against the Neo-Salafis who literally turn every Youtube video into a launch pad to attack different sheikh on who is on the manhaj today nonsense...I think Sheikh Yaser Qadhi is today one of the most educated Muslim in America.Today if you go to any Salafi masjid (even the Somali once sadly)you can literally sense the peddling of redundant questions that are irrelevant to the community.I lived in Philadelphia (one of the largest Salafi population in North America) for many years and I can personally attest to the juvenile and redundant stuff that have absolutely no bearing to the community in North Philly.These are the same people that didnt build a stronger community.

 

 

PS Saf..thanks for the link

[Raamsade]

Guleed ali, spare your ducas for the unfortunate Somalis in Bari and along the Shabeele river who are today shivering cold, hungry, tired, in grieve and worried what they're gonna feed their kids tomorrow all because Allah wanted to display his benevolence to mankind by subjecting them to typhoons and floods. Those people need your ducas, not I. BTW, it is DUCA in your mother tongue. You are on a Somali site with a Somali name and yet you can't write basic Somali.

 

thefuturenow, leave Ayaan Hirsi alone waryaa or you and I will have to duke it out the old fashioned. Walaahi I love Ayaan Hirsi! Have you seen her regal cheeks? How about those loving eyes? And that coy yet feminine smile? The demure yet confident disposition, ah! The woman is walking, talking, breathing female sexiness. Wallee hadeey single ahaan leheed waaba iska guursan lahaa.

 

Safferz, no I am not nor have I ever been a Hobbesian Brute. I don't even subscribe to much of the ideas of Thomas Hobbes. If you mean a character here on SOL then nope, there is only one Raamsade. I must say, before I joined SOL I recall only one avowed freethinker (johny boy). Then there was me and others I inspired thanks to my superlative wisdom, charm and erudition.

[Safferz]

Raamsade;986142 wrote:

Safferz, no I am not nor have I ever been a Hobbesian Brute. I don't even subscribe to much of the ideas of Thomas Hobbes. If you mean a character here on SOL then nope, there is only one Raamsade. I must say, before I joined SOL I recall only one avowed freethinker (johny boy). Then there was me and others I inspired thanks to my superlative wisdom, charm and erudition.

Yes, an SOLer who appeared this year and was deleted not too long ago for insulting Islam. Your thinking and style of writing is quite similar, and since he's now gone and you've recently re-appeared, I thought I'd ask if that was your script.

 

I don't think you're a "free thinker," your ideas sit quite comfortably with popular anti-immigrant and Islamophobic sentiment in the West.

[Raamsade]

Safferz, alas my child your ability to discern my ideas is as bad as your ability to discern different SOL characters. It is impossible for any SOLer to write like I not only because I'm exceedingly good writer, that goes without saying, but also because I have unique style of writing all of my own. But I see Hobbessian Brute is a fallen comrade; I will salute him when I uncork the old wine bottle tonight.

 

I'm an immigrant myself so it would be hypocritical of me to be against immigration; FYI I'm allergic to hypocrisy. And there is no such thing as Islamophobia. Phobia entails irrational fear but there is nothing irrational about the fear of Islamic extremism. It is real, deadly and strikes without warning.

 

To me a freethinker is someone who can take a position without worrying how others will perceive him/her. I'm not beholden to any ideology or political camps. I supported the US invasion of Afghanistan but dead set against the invasion of Iraq. I support Hezbollah's war against Israel but against Hamas's mafia-like coup and stewardship of Gaza. I support Iraq against the West. See how that works? I make decision based entirely on the circumstance. So if you think I can be pigeonholed that easily, think again buttercup.

[Classified]

thefuturenow;986096 wrote:

 

 

Higher education is the liberal's territory, his church. This is where the liberal liquors up youngsters and distills them of any and all principles. This is where he challenges the leaders of tomorrow to be unique in an environment that demands conformity. Note the echo-chamber that is the liberal classroom where a conservative student cannot voice his opinion.

 

 

 

Safferz, I believe what some of the brothers here are trying to say is that you are operating within this fragmentation. In the Islamic context, religion regulates political and economic life. Islam operates on a sphere entirely separate from any other ideology. It speaks a different language. To exercise dominion of Muslim political and economic interests is to exercise dominion of a part of their faith. Even with their economic and political aims accomplished, the good imperialist knows that he has not finished his work. He knows that it is only a matter of time before “blind faith” springs up and angry savages rid him of all that he has gained.

To survive, the liberal needs clones within and without the lands that he desires to infiltrate.

These two paragraphs pretty much sums up everything. lol

 

"To survive, the liberal needs clones within and without the lands that he desires to infliterate."

 

MY GOD! You hit the nail right in the head!

 

The liberal is undisciplined. He suffers from a superiority complex because he is educated and can recite Lolita from memory. He decries the 'dark ages' and seeks enlightenment. The liberal is savvy. His own sense of superiority allows him to listen to other opinions diligently--because, after all, the liberal knows that this 'savage' only needs to be enlightened.

He feels he can deconstruct any argument and win over the unenlightened savage because he has studied all the classics.

The liberal, drunk of his own superiority, believes that he knows what humans want better than any other. He has one aim and one aim only--the creation of a society that operates within the parameters of liberal thought. He doesn't care for the color of your skin or the language of your ancestors. But the liberal demands political uniformity of which the cornerstone is individual freedom--his own formulation of individual freedom. See, the liberal is complex.

Lol @ "He feels he can deconstruct any argument and win over the "unenlightened savage" because he has studied all the classics." That describes some members on SOL.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

Apophis;986094 wrote:

Still feeling bitter are we?

regarding?