Mouhanad Khorchide ''God Is Not A Dictator''

[Alpha Blondy]

Apophis;983408 wrote:

There's method to your madness, but as usual, it's flawed....and mildly humorous.

haters gonna hate.

 

don't hate the kid cos he's getting airtime.

[Alpha Blondy]

Safferz;983410 wrote:

Sources, citations, provide concrete examples and evidence to back up your nonsense.

 

And again, what have you read from Khourchide and Abou El Fadl? Critique their work and deconstruct their arguments here for us, since you take issue with their work. Pinpoint what you take issue with in their writing, or you have nothing to say.

 

 

 

You obviously have no idea how universities or the tenure system work. What are "the views" of the University of Munster (Khourchide) and UCLA (Abou El Fadl), the two institutions that have granted these two tenure?

 

Neither of you have anything substantive or intelligent to contribute here, just baseless assumptions and ridicule, which shows how small your minds actually are.

LOOOOOOOOOOOL@You obviously have no idea how universities or the tenure system work.

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOL@Sources, citations, provide concrete examples and evidence to back up your nonsense.

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOL@Neither of you have anything substantive or intelligent to contribute here, just baseless assumptions and ridicule, which shows how small your minds actually are

 

LOOOOOOOOOOOL@And again, what have you read from Khourchide and Abou El Fadl? Critique their work and deconstruct their arguments here for us, since you take issue with their work.

 

K.O :D;)

 

uusheeg

 

Saffz,

 

i went to uni, somaha?

i cite my references si fiicaan, somaha?

i contribute by getting your attention, somaha?

i've read Khourchide and Abou El Fadl, somaha?

[Khayr]

Safferz;983410 wrote:

Sources, citations, provide concrete examples and evidence to back up your nonsense.

 

And again, what have you read from Khourchide and Abou El Fadl? Critique their work and deconstruct their arguments here for us, since you take issue with their work. Pinpoint what you take issue with in their writing, or you have nothing to say.

 

 

 

You obviously have no idea how universities or the tenure system work. What are "the views" of the University of Munster (Khourchide) and UCLA (Abou El Fadl), the two institutions that have granted these two tenure?

 

Neither of you have anything substantive or intelligent to contribute here, just baseless assumptions and ridicule, which shows how small your minds actually are.

Do you know what UCLA did when they invited an Israeli Ambassador to their campus?

They punished the students that had spoken out against the Ambassador and kicked them out (explosion).

There is non-tolerance rule there for speaking out against Israel.

Where does or did Abou El Fadl work at the time of this. You guess it right - UCLA.

 

Again, every pompous that makes their living out of bashing Islam does not need to be engaged in discourse.

The ayat of the quran comes to mind about the worst of sounds being that

of a donkey. To my ears, that is the sound that they make.

[Safferz]

Khayr;983414 wrote:

Do you know what UCLA did when they invited an Israeli Ambassador to their campus?

They punished the students that had spoken out against the Ambassador and kicked them out.

Where does or did Abou El Fadl work at the time of this. You guess it right - UCLA.

That was UC Irvine, not UCLA. But even if it were UCLA (a university made up of a number of schools, including the law school Abou El Fadl teaches at, and the college where undergrads like those students would be a part of... so you can't generalize), your argument is still fallacious.

[guleed_ali]

My beef with Khorchide is that he's not looking at Islam holistically:

 

"Khorchide: I have a different reading of the Koran. God is not an archaic tribal leader, he's not a dictator. Of the book's 114 suras, why do 113 of them begin with the phrase "In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful"? There has to be a reason for this. The Koranic God presents himself as a loving God. That's why the relationship between God and man is a bond of love similar to the one between a mother and child. I would like Muslims to emancipate themselves from the image of an archaic God that's being connoted in many mosques, in religious education or during courses of theological instruction."

 

So the relationship between a child and a mother is always about love. What if the kid misbehaves is there no discipline involved?

 

Secondly he says:

 

Khorchide: Not just in Germany, and not just among youngsters, unfortunately. This is a highly simplified faith that presents God as nothing more than a bookkeeper or a judge, who calculates how often I've prayed. I can understand those who want to keep a kind of religious to-do list. But it's a pity. This kind of approach doesn't allow faith to move on from a highly elementary stage. It's more difficult to say: I would like to do something good for the sake of goodness; or I strive for internal perfection that finds its expression in good character traits and actions.

 

Allah says in the Quran

 

I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me. 51:56

 

So wouldn't it be correct for a Muslim (Worshiper of Allah) to call others to worship Allah.

 

I just did a quick search in the Quran for the word punishment (عذاب) and it showed up 21 times, I did a search for heavens (جنات) and it showed up 20 times. Allah is to be worshiped in between fear & hope (خوف و رجاء). When someone is down about something or a sin they committed inspire them with some the mercy of Allah. If someone is about to commit a sin or angry you strike the fear of Allah in them with the warning of Hell fire and defiance of Allah. This guy accuses people of taking a simplistic approach to define Islam when in fact it is he who is looking at one side of the equation rather than both.

 

Finally,

 

Khorchide says that because of the difficult archaic language in the Koran, "most Muslims don't concern themselves with the true essence of the Koran", which means that they base their faith on what they are told, "harking back to statements made by theologians in the ninth and tenth centuries"

 

FLASE! They base it on the Arabic language that is studied today the same way it was studied by the Sahabah. Allah says in chapter 39 verse 28:

 

قُرۡءَانًا عَرَبِيًّا غَيۡرَ ذِى عِوَجٍ۬ لَّعَلَّهُمۡ يَتَّقُونَ (٢٨)

A Lecture in Arabic, containing no crookedness, that haply they may ward off (evil). (28)

 

The Quran is perfection and it is the word of Allah. And the way to interpret the Quran is through the Messenger of Allah (Sallahalhu alihi wa salam) who it was revealed on and his companions. If he's talking about rulings and judgments then he better debate the people of Jurisprudence (الفقهاء)

[Oiler]

Safferz;983410 wrote:

Sources, citations, provide concrete examples and evidence to back up your nonsense.

 

And again, what have you read from Khourchide and Abou El Fadl? Critique their work and deconstruct their arguments here for us, since you take issue with their work. Pinpoint what you take issue with in their writing, or you have nothing to say.

 

 

 

 

 

.

Okay, lets begin with this; he said in a book that heaven is accessible to anyone that lives a good life - regardless of whether one believed in God, do you agree with him?

[SomaliPhilosopher]

guleed_ali;983419 wrote:

My beef with Khorchide is that he's not looking at Islam holistically:

 

"Khorchide: I have a different reading of the Koran. God is not an archaic tribal leader, he's not a dictator. Of the book's 114 suras, why do 113 of them begin with the phrase "In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful"? There has to be a reason for this. The Koranic God presents himself as a loving God.

That's why the relationship between God and man is a bond of love similar to the one between a mother and child

. I would like Muslims to emancipate themselves from the image of an archaic God that's being connoted in many mosques, in religious education or during courses of theological instruction."

 

So the relationship between a child and a mother is always about love. What if the kid misbehaves is there no discipline involved?

 

Secondly he says:

 

Khorchide: Not just in Germany, and not just among youngsters, unfortunately. This is a highly simplified faith that presents God

as nothing more than a bookkeeper or a judge, who calculates how often I've prayed.

I can understand those who want to keep a kind of religious to-do list. But it's a pity. This kind of approach doesn't allow faith to move on from a highly elementary stage. It's more difficult to say: I would like to do something good for the sake of goodness; or I strive for internal perfection that finds its expression in good character traits and actions.

 

Allah says in the Quran

 

I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me. 51:56

 

So wouldn't it be correct for a Muslim (Worshiper of Allah) to call others to worship Allah.

 

I just did a quick search in the Quran for the word punishment (عذاب) and it showed up 21 times, I did a search for heavens (جنات) and it showed up 20 times. Allah is to be worshiped in between fear & hope (خوف و رجاء). When someone is down about something or a sin they committed inspire them with some the mercy of Allah. If someone is about to commit a sin or angry you strike the fear of Allah in them with the warning of Hell fire and defiance of Allah. This guy accuses people of taking a simplistic approach to define Islam when in fact it is he who is looking at one side of the equation rather than both.

 

Finally,

 

Khorchide says that because of the difficult archaic language in the Koran, "most Muslims don't concern themselves with the true essence of the Koran", which means that they base their faith on what they are told, "harking back to statements made by theologians in the ninth and tenth centuries"

 

FLASE! They base it on the Arabic language that is studied today the same way it was studied by the Sahabah. Allah says in chapter 39 verse 28:

 

قُرۡءَانًا عَرَبِيًّا غَيۡرَ ذِى عِوَجٍ۬ لَّعَلَّهُمۡ يَتَّقُونَ (٢٨)

A Lecture in Arabic, containing no crookedness, that haply they may ward off (evil). (28)

 

The Quran is perfection and it is the word of Allah. And the way to interpret the Quran is through the Messenger of Allah (Sallahalhu alihi wa salam) who it was revealed on and his companions. If he's talking about rulings and judgments then he better debate the people of Jurisprudence (الفقهاء)

And hence the random akhi loooool!

[N.O.R.F]

Although he has some points he seems to be more concerned with labelling and generalising other Muslims. Stuff iyo nonsense.

[Alpha Blondy]

SomaliPhilosopher;983428 wrote:

And hence the random akhi loooool!

so ma aragtid? looooool

[Khadafi]

Classified;983397 wrote:

Lol. Nowadays, for Somali women, FGM and attacking Itheir Culture has become their latest quick rich scheme. They'll get a couple of grants from public and private funds. Send back home to do a short documentary. Get a book deal. Get some air-time on National news. Come back to the Foreign nation you call home and create an "Out-reach" program for "your" community and milk the system. They deserve a Mark Twain award for their humor. lol

 

Classified, why should we not criticize regressive cultural traits in Somalia? FGM and other " negative" cultural traits should be discussed openly. Every society evolves. 1800-th century Somalia is for example not the same as today's Somalia.

I of course agree with you if you mean the "Ayan-Hirsi" types who has inferiority complex. They love to talk and criticize aspects within our faith but remain stubbornly silent in regards to the Wests imperial approach to Somalia or other poor states. That'speople with a double agenda.

[Khayr]

Khourchide would be against تقلىد (following past scholars) and would want

a renewed and reformed (ةجدىد ) quranic interpretation.

ىعنى he wants want all the modernist thinkers want - an edited quran and religion.

[Johnny B]

*Ibtisam;983300 wrote:

 

I also find it disturbing that parents and often mothers, use fear of God as a method to control their kids behaviour, for example you can tell your 5year old, dont lie, it is bad etc but instead we say "you are going to hell if you lie" (both incorrect and kids inability to understand this). At the same time kids dont get the opposite narrative or reward for their good actions thereby distorting the relationship they would've had with their maker.

 

Anyway I hope you guys enjoy reading outside the box- if you dont iminkaba ha isku furiin.

 

We had it coming , yeah.

A year or two back one had agree with NGONGE ( where is he ? ) in this thread. http://www.somaliaonline.com/community/showthread.php/14720-Too-young-for-hijab/page2?highlight=child+Johnny

[STOIC]

It is true that some Islamic scholars will make you feel like Allah is out there to get you.We are warned not to be treacherous and sinful, but also if we fall into any sins, as we are human, this Aya comes to mind. Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." Islam calls for prayer, purity, humility, humbleness and sacrifice. May Allah make us the once who are firm and confident. Ps: for some reason as you age (like me) many of the foolish things that excite you don't move you. All you want to do is do right and do good deeds while placing your mercy on him. Or else the Quraan will not have called him the most merciful so many times.

[Classified]

STOIC;983494 wrote:

It is true that some Islamic scholars will make you feel like Allah is out there to get you.We are warned not to be treacherous and sinful, but also if we fall into any sins, as we are human, this Aya comes to mind. Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." Islam calls for prayer, purity, humility, humbleness and sacrifice. May Allah make us the once who are firm and confident. Ps: for some reason as you age (like me) many of the foolish things that excite you don't move you. All you want to do is do right and do good deeds while placing your mercy on him. Or else the Quraan will not have called him the most merciful so many times.

That Ayah doesn't mean go ahead and transgress against yourself by committing all sorts of sins, be it the comsumption of alcohol, Zina (fornication/adultery), murder, eating of Riba (interest) or even sorcery. If you intentionally commit sins, then it's only logical to say Allah will surely punish you, but if you commit sins without knowing or if you commit sins due to being in a dire circumstances, such as taking interest or eating haram food/drinks, then surely Allah is forigivng.

 

It seems to me that 'some' "Muslims" that have committed many sins and are still willing to commit more, want to justify their path by twisting certain verses from the Quran and certain Hadiths from the Prophet to their liking.

[STOIC]

I'm not a Islamic scholar, but I'm sure all of us commit sins intentional or not. I'm just not following your arrogance of thinking that Allah is not going to forgive sins when he himself says in the next Aya "turn ye to your lord in repentance and bow to his will before the penalty comes" obviously he is asking us to turn to him in repentance. I just can't sit here and tell you that he meant a green light to commit sins, but obviously he meant to repent if we do fall to sins. The only thing he doesn't forgive according to my understanding is those who take others as his partners.I think it is arrogant to preach that he, the merciful, is out there to get you while all along he says he is just and merciful to his creation.