The 21 October Revolution

[Classified]

Should it be a National holiday in the new Federal Republic of Somalia? As we all know, the last Somali government that had controlled every bit of square mile from the Djibouti border to the Kenyan border and along side the Ethiopian border was Mohamed Siad Barre's government of 21 years. Ever since that government collapsed, there was and there is no central/federal government that controls the entire country, from the Djibouti border to the Kenyan border.

 

Should the Kacaan be recognized as symbol of pride or should it be rejected like Nazism post-world war 2? If 21 October becomes a National holiday, what about the Rebel movements? Would they too be given national platform to recognize them as saviors or will they be rejected like Nazism as well?

[Wiil Cusub]

 

Muuqdisho: Aabe agoontii wali way kuu ooyaysaa oo waxay leeyahiin:

 

"Duqii doona ducona ugu dara way na dubatay maantee!"

 

afka: oo wuxu mayna qaan gaadhin wax xun Alle saarku ilay ka badan 20 sanaan ka maqanahee ;)

[Mad_Mullah]

They curse Siyad Barre's name whilst living in refugee camps and waiting for the Turkish trucks to arrive.

[Safferz]

The man sowed the seeds of Somalia's destruction. It's a part of our history and should be remembered, but I don't think it should be celebrated either. I don't understand the nostalgia for what was a brutal military dictatorship

[Classified]

Safferz;982286 wrote:

The man sowed the seeds of Somalia's destruction. It's a part of our history and should be remembered, but I don't think it should be celebrated either. I don't understand the nostalgia for what was a brutal military dictatorship

How did he sow the seeds of Somalia's destruction? Are you saying the position we're in wouldn't ever happen, had Siad Barre never came to power? As for it being brutal, can you give us empirical evidence?

[Hawdian]

A famous saying from Sayed Barre goes like this When I came to Xamar the city had only one asphalt Road when I leave I will only leave this one road This man was a disaster on every level.

[Classified]

Hawdian;982290 wrote:

A famous saying from Sayed Barre goes like this When I came to Xamar the city had only one asphalt Road when I leave I will only leave this one road This man was a disaster on every level.

Are you sure that isn't dacaayad? Have you watched/listened to Siyaad Barre's last speech in 1991? Is it Calaacal, Threat or Dardaaran?

 

 

[YoniZ]

Classified;982261 wrote:

Should it be a National holiday in the new

Federal Republic of Somalia

? As we all know, the last Somali government that had controlled every bit of square mile from the Djibouti border to the Kenyan border and along side the Ethiopian border was Mohamed Siad Barre's government of 21 years. Ever since that government collapsed, there was and there is no central/federal government that controls the entire country, from the Djibouti border to the Kenyan border.

 

Should the Kacaan be recognized as symbol of pride or should it be rejected like Nazism post-world war 2? If 21 October becomes a National holiday, what about the Rebel movements? Would they too be given national platform to recognize them as saviors or will they be rejected like Nazism as well?

Well, let me ask you few questions my friend.

Who controlled the whole Somali Republic territory before the Siyad's coup?

Did he left power in better/worse state than he inherited the affairs of the Republic?

How do you compare Mengistu's exit to Siyad's one?

How patriotic is president who lost his power seat, to hang on in remote tribal region and follow the infamous scorch earth policies?

 

That should give you a food for thought, before thinking like the SOL's young political pundits born in late 80s or early 90s.

[Classified]

YoniZ;982297 wrote:

Well, let me ask you few questions my friend.

Who controlled the whole Somali Republic territory before the Siyad's coup?

Did he left power in better/worse state than he inherited the affairs of the Republic?

How do you compare Mengistu's exit to Siyad's one?

How patriotic is president who lost his power seat, to hang on in remote tribal region and follow the infamous scorch earth policies?

 

That should give you a food for thought, before thinking like the SOL's young political pundits born in late 80s or early 90s.

To answer your questions.

 

1. I never said his government was the "only" government that controlled the entire country. I said his government was the LAST to do that. Prior to his government, there were two government, whom allegedly were full of corruption (key word: allegedly), and those two governments as well controlled the entire country.

2. Your second and third questions are pretty much connected. Mengistu's exit was due to the rebel movements uniting and forming a government together. They didn't go on a killing spree against different tribes. That's why when Siad was ousted, had the rebels worked together, Somalia would've had a strong central government right after January 26, 1991.

3. Siad left the capital and went to Gedo region, like you said, in a remote tribal region, leaving the Capital and it's surrounding areas into the hands of his opponents. Had the rebels that took control over Mogadishu (capital) and Hargeisa (second largest town) had any plans to build a united government for the people and by the people, they could've. They had the political, economical and social powerhouse under their hands (the capital). I don't know how 70 year old ousted President in a remote tribal town in Gedo could be of any threat. lol

[YoniZ]

Thanks for your over simplified answers. However, few things need to be put into perspective.

Siyad came to power with out one bullet fired and never left quietly, he made sure no one succeeds him in doing the below steps:

 

- Refuse and even shell the few respected inter-clan negotiators who tried peaceful exit. If you are old enough, the names of AUN Hashi Weheliye and Muse boqor and many others should ring bells.

 

- Open the gates of the weaponry dumps for certain clans. Again if you are old enough and, have been in Mogadishu in the first three weeks of January 1991, the names of Shirkole, isha Guulwadayaasha, xalane and, 77 distribution points should make sense. I can even give you which clan received what kind of arms from which point.

 

- Talking to the international media in regular basis claiming that he is the rightful president and, the criminal bandits will be exterminated and he will get back to Mogadishu ASAP. Anyone who know little bit about politics can understand that, no one will succeed in forming government unless the incumbant president is either resigned, captured, killed or leave the country.

 

- Organising his clan to march to the capital and secceeded to reach the gates of city before he was defeated.

 

In short, Siyad inherited functioning African state with impressive international deplomatic ties dealing with both sides of the cold war blocs. He turned it to *** licker for one bloc and after few years inguinuanly turned against his only left allies.... The rest as they say is history.

 

Having said that, the opposition groups had their short commings and I will hold my fire for the appropriate debates. But I will never compare them to a man who came to power with naive opptimism from people, stuck on seat for 21 years and left the country scorched to the dark ages.

[Classified]

Thank you for your input.

 

You said,

 

- Organising his clan to march to the capital and secceeded to reach the gates of city before he was defeated.

So, if he organized his clan to march to the capital, who was controlling the capital? Is it safe to say at that point, there was no more a central government, but rather a civil war (every tribe for himself)?

 

In retrospect, the very leaders of the rebel movements were part of the government of Siad Barre. Abdullahi Yusuf, a Colonel in the government tried to stage a bloodless coup in 1978 and he failed. Apparently, the former government officials who were part of the SNM, USC and SPM were trying to overthrow the very government they were part of and install themselves as the sole rulers. Another dictatorship, perhaps? Who are we against, one man (Siad Barre) or his entire government (including all those that were at one point part of his government)?

 

The point of this thread is, should 21 October be legalized as a National holiday or not?

[Wiil Cusub]

YoniZ;982310 wrote:

In short, Siyad inherited functioning African state with impressive international deplomatic ties dealing with both sides of the cold war blocs. He turned it to *** licker for one bloc and after few years inguinuanly turned against his only left allies.... The rest as they say is history.

1+

[Safferz]

YoniZ;982310 wrote:

Thanks for your over simplified answers. However, few things need to be put into perspective.

Siyad came to power with out one bullet fired and never left quietly, he made sure no one succeeds him in doing the below steps:

 

- Refuse and even shell the few respected inter-clan negotiators who tried peaceful exit. If you are old enough, the names of AUN Hashi Weheliye and Muse boqor and many others should ring bells.

 

- Open the gates of the weaponry dumps for certain clans. Again if you are old enough and, have been in Mogadishu in the first three weeks of January 1991, the names of Shirkole, isha Guulwadayaasha, xalane and, 77 distribution points should make sense. I can even give you which clan received what kind of arms from which point.

 

- Talking to the international media in regular basis claiming that he is the rightful president and, the criminal bandits will be exterminated and he will get back to Mogadishu ASAP. Anyone who know little bit about politics can understand that, no one will succeed in forming government unless the incumbant president is either resigned, captured, killed or leave the country.

 

- Organising his clan to march to the capital and secceeded to reach the gates of city before he was defeated.

 

In short, Siyad inherited functioning African state with impressive international deplomatic ties dealing with both sides of the cold war blocs. He turned it to *** licker for one bloc and after few years inguinuanly turned against his only left allies.... The rest as they say is history.

 

Having said that, the opposition groups had their short commings and I will hold my fire for the appropriate debates. But I will never compare them to a man who came to power with naive opptimism from people, stuck on seat for 21 years and left the country scorched to the dark ages.

Well said. I enjoy your posts, YoniZ.

 

Classified;982289 wrote:

How did he sow the seeds of Somalia's destruction? Are you saying the position we're in wouldn't ever happen, had Siad Barre never came to power? As for it being brutal, can you give us empirical evidence?

He systematically manipulated clan for political power, which had the effect of politicizing clan difference and creating clan based opposition to the state. One of the most lasting legacies of his rule was the destruction of the philosophical belief and trust Somalis had in being subjects and citizens, and with the collapse of the state, the primacy of clan as the only political unit that could be trusted for group welfare and collective security. This is something that even well functioning governments like Somaliland are unable to overcome and instead find themselves negotiating political power with the clans.

[Classified]

I derailed my own thread. smh

 

So far, YoniZ, Wiil Cusub and "Irshad Manji" (Safferz) all condemn 21 October.

 

Guys, can we come back to the initial point? Should 21 October be celebrated as a National holiday or should it be condemned in the new Federal Republic of Somalia? Also, what about the Rebel movements? Should they have a celebratory platform or not?

[Miskiin-Macruuf-Aqiyaar]

They didn't go on a killing spree against different tribes. That's why when Siad was ousted, had the rebels worked together, Somalia would've had a strong central government right after January 26, 1991.

Dadka markee madax yihiin oo la afgambiyo wey iska cararaan oo dalkooda ka cararaan, some naftooda ula baxaan, kuwa kalena dalkooda iyo dadkooda badbaadintooda ugu baxaan. Jaalle Siyaad didn't do neither.

 

Jabhadaha iyagoo kala qeybsan haddana waxaa xaalka sii xumeeye Siyaad Barre iyo ciidamadiisa taabacsanaa hadba soo rogaalcelin jiray, mar ee kasoo duulaan Kismaayo, mar ee imaadaan Afgooye, mar ee Gedo kasoo kicitimaan.

 

Mingistu markuu ka baxay Adisababa toos uu Simbaabwe u aaday. So is Iidi Amiin, to Sacuudiga. Dad quustay ayee ahaayeen, dalalkoodana waa badbaaday. Not Max'ed Siyaad Barre. Diseembar 26deeda, 1990 ilaa 26da Janaayo, 1991, Xamar waala isku dhameeye oo Siyaad waa diiday inuu ka baxo, markii u dambeysayna xoog loogu saaray. Markuu Xamar ka baxayna wali ma quusan oo bilooyin ayuu sii joogay dalka. Mingistu didn't do that. Qof dalkiisa jecel uu ahaa laakiin ma'ogi see wax ka noqdeen. Lataliyaashiis ayaa waalay ama been u sheegay.