The newest trend - xaliimos marrying chinese

[Wadani]

DoctorKenney;982465 wrote:

It's actually such a disgrace saaxib. Somali kids going into university and studying Philosophy or Sociology or some other useless major and they graduate with the assumption that they know everything and often use big fancy words when talking just to prove a point. I have a couple Somali girls on my Facebook that are guilty of this. I see them writing long paragraphs on topics they know nothing about, but because they have a Liberal Arts degree, they feel like their opinion is worth something.

 

Islam is as it is. You can't "re-interpet" Islam to fit your desires. Either take it or leave it. Islam has 2 aspects; 1. Aqeedah and 2. Fiqh .....If you don't even understand the Aqeedah fully then you have no right to start speaking of Fiqh issues. Get your basics done first. I don't see a 7 year old kid trying to understand Algebra and Calculus, so why is Safferz trying to do the same with Islamic Fiqh?

 

There are many many books about Islam, and I suggest you start increasing your knowledge on it and you'll eventually realize the great wisdom behind Islamic legislation. But take baby steps first.

Wallee cashar lama ilaawaan ah ayaad Safferz u dhigtay lool.

[guleed_ali]

Safferz is our Muslim sister so let's follow our beloved Prophet's saying that " الدين نصيحه " (Religion is advice). Doctor Kenney is my brother in Islam (I'm assuming you're a brother) who I love for the sake of Allah. It's okay to disagree so long as we don't go too far and insult one another. Sister Safferz if you have a question about something within the deen feel free to ask it and we can get you a correct answer if we can't answer it ourselves. Dr. Kenney seems to be well versed in matters of Shari'ah and I believe he just wants the best for you. I hope we can all get along as Muslim brothers and Sisters and not resort to name calling and shouting matches.

 

 

Wa billahi attawfiq

[Classified]

In response to the member Safferz, DoctorKenney said;

 

DoctorKenney;982370 wrote:

Please don't change Islam, by referencing the quotes of ONE obscure modern-day scholar. You sound ridiculous here.

 

It is well known that drinking alcohol (publicly that is), is indeed within the purview of the State, as the 4 Righteous Caliphs (Umar, Abu Bakr, Ali and Uthman) were known to punish alcoholics and they did so after the death of the Noble Prophet.

 

It is well known that Muslim women CANNOT marry Non-Muslims at all. Under no circumstances, and there are no exceptions to this rule. But a Muslim man can marry a chaste Jewish or Christian woman, but this is discouraged. And it would be preferable to marry a Muslim woman instead. I, as a Muslim man, am forbidden to marry an Atheist woman, or a Hindu woman, or a Buddhist woman. I'm ONLY allowed to marry a Christian or Jewish woman under

very limited circumstances

(she has to be religious, she has to be chaste) and many scholars even say that you would have to be living in an Islamic State for the marriage to be valid. That it wouldn't be valid if you were doing the marriage in the USA or Canada or Europe.

In response to the member Safferz, DoctorKenney said;

 

DoctorKenney;982371 wrote:

You can be gay and Muslim, correct. You can even commit homosexual acts and still be Muslim, although you would be sinning. The same way how an alcoholic Muslim or a fornicating Muslim is still a Muslim, even though he's committing major sins. That's not the issue here.

 

The issue is: People who claim to be Muslim but then claim that homosexuality is fine. That there's nothing wrong with it. That homosexual acts are all good. Once you do that, you've left the fold of Islam and this is major kufr.

 

I have Muslim friends who drink alcohol

while knowing that they're committing a sin and what they're doing is wrong.

They are major sinners, but that doesn't make them Kafir. What would make them a Kafir is if they drank alcohol and attempted to justify it and claim that it's totally fine. There's a huge difference here.

 

That's the criteria. That's where the border-lines are drawn.

In response to the member Safferz, DoctorKenney said;

 

DoctorKenney;982402 wrote:

I really suggest you stick to your Liberal Arts studies in college and refrain from talking about things you know nothing about. If you make a claim, you'd better substantiate it or withdraw it. Don't make the claim, and then claim that you're "uninterested" to carry the topic on further. And don't reference ambiguous Islamic politicians to make a point.

 

I'm advising you to remain silent about what you don't know, as you're only making a fool of yourself on this forum. Don't approach topics with little research and zero knowledge. We are all laypeople, and you should be honest enough to admit that

In response to the member Safferz, DoctorKenney said;

 

DoctorKenney;982418 wrote:

That was a long-winded paragraph insulting me and others on this forum, without really saying anything of substance. You don't know me and you know nothing about me at all. But nice job making assumptions about my character.

 

And it's laughable how your "PHD in History" from an American school makes you qualified to make personal Ijtihad on Islamic Fiqh when it's clear that you know

nothing

about Quranic Tafsir, Hadiths and early Islamic history. Your little Liberal Arts degree is giving you the confidence and nerve to make long-winded posts about topics you're totally ignorant of, and then you try to pass yourself as an intellectual.

Learn your place, you're an amateur.

 

I once took a class on the French Revolution when I was in University. Does this somehow make me an expert on French History? Or does it make me a man who knows a little bit about France and that's it.

 

And it's clear from your posts that you look at Islam through your liberal lenses, and you try and interpret Islam according to your Liberal inclinations. And you're telling me that I "lack intellectual curiosity".

 

Either speak good or remain silent.

I'm advising you to remain silent

, re-enrol in University, and study something else instead. Something worthwhile

 

Thanks to you Safferz, If I ever have children (inshaAllah),

I will explicitly forbid my daughters and sons from studying Liberal Arts

in University, and instead make them study Engineering, Healthcare or any of the other hard sciences. I'm not gonna have them become as corrupted and deluded as you. What a shame wallahi

In response to the member Khayr regarding the member Safferz, DoctorKenney said;

 

DoctorKenney;982465 wrote:

It's actually such a disgrace saaxib. Somali kids going into university and studying Philosophy or Sociology or some other useless major and they graduate with the assumption that they know everything and often use big fancy words when talking just to prove a point. I have a couple Somali girls on my Facebook that are guilty of this. I see them writing long paragraphs on topics they know nothing about, but because they have a Liberal Arts degree, they feel like their opinion is worth something.

 

Islam is as it is. You can't "re-interpet" Islam to fit your desires. Either take it or leave it. Islam has 2 aspects; 1. Aqeedah and 2. Fiqh .....If you don't even understand the Aqeedah fully then you have no right to start speaking of Fiqh issues. Get your basics done first. I don't see a 7 year old kid trying to understand Algebra and Calculus, so why is Safferz trying to do the same with Islamic Fiqh?

 

There are many many books about Islam, and I suggest you start increasing your knowledge on it and you'll eventually realize the great wisdom behind Islamic legislation. But take baby steps first.

 

The greatest A.s.s-Kick on SOL I have EVER seen. DoctorKenney has just murdered Safferz. I am laughing my butt off. I tried to warn her, but she had it coming. LMAO!!!!

[Ibtisam]

Too little knowledge is very dangerous- It really is sad and shameful when people try to aggressively dress something Islamic with all the childishness and immaturity that is evident in this thread. Debating Islamic issues requires certain level of akhlaaq or ethics- particularly those posing as poster childs for Islam. If you want to make a point, you should do so without getting personal- really girls on facebook using big words? is that a joke?- that is the whole point of a presenting a different argument so that someone may benefit from you- otherwise why bother? Islam is not who shouts the loudest in an obnoxious fashion or how many cheerleaders they are performing for. It is painful to watch and achieves nothing.

 

As for Liberal Arts- if you fear your kids being led astray in less than 3yrs then you failed your duty as a parent first and foremost educate and bring your kids up in an Islamic manner- most people get to University earliest at 18. A good parent would've ensured that by then- their kids have the foundation and grounding Islamically to intellectually defend their believes, respond to challenging thoughts without losing their way and possible even educate others. Of course if you just have them and let them go sidada adhiga and try to hide behind protecting them from any ideas that might challenge them- in this age of the open source- you will fail. Education is too fold- what you practice and teach at home and their formal studies- and the two go hand in hand.

 

As for the topic- my own up bring and Islamic education in a salafi following school and home environment is more on the rigid side which is why I dont get into religious debates but I think you have all agreed on the bottom line which is your sinful actions only take you across the board IF you defend it- for example the gay Muslim community in the UK has two groups- one who advocates that God made them gay genetically and therefore it is okay and they should be accepted like normal marriages and Islam needs to be reformed to reflect this-- OR the other group who believe that this is their challenge in this world and they need to overcome it. I personally dont believe that Islam needs any reform in anything- if something does not fit we can't package it or mold it so that it appears to fit even if it is something that current affairs cannot accept- our role is not to make Islam more acceptable or appealing or tolerant. Islam in its own way is acceptable, appealing, and tolerant- although as evident in this thread Muslims are often rude, hostile and intolerant.

 

On the flip side to people who feel they need to explain Islam, make it vague and contentious so that we dont appear extreme are people who try to justify things quickly and without evidence (or the strength and validity of the evidence they are presenting) for example I've seen so many people making blanket statements such as: "everyone knows the punishment for adultery is stoning to death". So change works in both ways, being definitive in ways Islam is not is also an attempt to change Islam.

 

I also seen memebers implying that marrying other races/ colour/nations is not islamically encouraged- we should be-careful about WHAT we attribute to Islam- there are things which are difficult to accept or you dislike but Islam allows- a true believer needs accept and move on.

 

So lets play nice and by all means have a good and valid discussion on these issues but true to the spirit, kindness and good character of Muslims and if you are not Muslim, the honest character of a Somali. Those who were members in 2004-2006 will remember all the religious debates Johnny B, North, LazyG, Me, Sheh, and Nur the resident shikh of SOL use to have- it never got personal and in our own way we all learnt something- Khyre will testify that even Johnny B now days is closer to Islam then back in the days, dont you agree?

 

 

Peace and Baris

[YoniZ]

it can clearly be seen here, the deep animosity some nomads have shown against Safferz and, premature celebrations kicked soon after her withdrawal from this debate .

 

Even if she is not correct in this particular point, the girl has gained my full respect as the thorn in the eyes of SOL's shallow debaters.

[D.O.C]

Classified, you should be making peace between the brother and the sister instead of igniting war. Ilaahay ka baq.

 

Saffarez, Allah said says" if one not sure about my deen" DO NOT talk about it, and it is better to be silent about it" therefore please refrain when it comes to the deen. It is only an advice.

[Tallaabo]

Apophis;982440 wrote:

You're talking out of your backside. One side are trying to fit

the square of Islam

into a liberal hexagonal space for clearly personal reasons, while the other side present the religion as it is.

 

I have rarely agreed with what DoctorKenny writes on this forum but he's utterly correct here.

Islam is really clear on this, either accept it for what it is or leave it

.

Which "Islam" is clear on this? Shia brand? Or the hot headed Salafi branch? What about the mysterious Sufis? Or the hated Wahabis? I like the whirling dance of some other cult somewhere in Syria and Turkey, so what about their version of the "truth"? I think Al Sabaab and their Al Qaeda allies have also got their own franchise and should be considered. Be more specific about what you are talking.

[DoctorKenney]

guleed_ali;982530 wrote:

Safferz is our Muslim sister so let's follow our beloved Prophet's saying that " الدين نصيحه " (Religion is advice). Doctor Kenney is my brother in Islam (I'm assuming you're a brother) who I love for the sake of Allah. It's okay to disagree so long as we don't go too far and insult one another. Sister Safferz if you have a question about something within the deen feel free to ask it and we can get you a correct answer if we can't answer it ourselves. Dr. Kenney seems to be well versed in matters of Shari'ah and I believe he just wants the best for you. I hope we can all get along as Muslim brothers and Sisters and not resort to name calling and shouting matches.

 

 

Wa billahi attawfiq

You're right. I'm really sorry about this and I shouldn't have been so harsh when making my points. I was just irritated that Safferz implied that anyone who looks at Islam differently than her, is a moron who sees everything in black and white. I didn't like her condescending attitude, but I had no right to behave like that. That isn't the Sunnah and that's not appropriate.

 

I take it back. But I still stand by my positions on Islamic principles.

 

We Muslims should be proud of our religion, we shouldn't have to bend and twist Islam in order to accommodate the opinions and sensitivities of Liberals. Instead of worrying about what the Liberals think of us, we should be worried about what Allah thinks of us. And that's what matters at the end of the day. We shouldn't be analysing Islam to see if it's compatible with Western liberalism. We should be analysing Western liberalism to see if it's compatible with Islam. There's a huge difference here. The Americans are extremely proud of their values and their way of life, and you don't see them making any apologies for what they believe in, no matter what it is. The Soviets were proud of their values and their way of life as well. So why aren't the Muslims proud of their way of life? What happened to our honour and our self-respect, where we see ourselves kissing the feet of Western liberals and begging them to accept us and our way of life? Islam and Western Liberalism are incompatible, they're irreconcilable. We have our religion and they have their religion. Instead of worrying about them, we should put our trust in Allah and let Allah take care of the situation. You have to understand that these Liberals are opposed to the most basic matters of Islamic Aqeedah. They quote verses from the Quran which state that the Mushrikeen are going to Hell-Fire and they throw a temper tantrum and then claim that Islam is intolerant. So it goes to show us what Allah said in the Quran, "The Jews and Christians will never be pleased with you till you follow their religion." and you see the great wisdom in this Quranic verse. Stop denying the most basic aspects of Shariah, such as the cutting of a thief's hand or the whipping of the fornicator, in order to appease and please these Liberals. You see them criticizing the Islamic Shariah and then demand that we change and become like them.We should be on the offensive and questioning their corrupt way of life, and demand that THEY change and become like us. You see their societies and witness how corrupt they've become, with their high crime rate, drug usage, homosexuality, prostitution, marital infidelity and number of rapes. Western societies have a superior economic output, but that's it. Their social values are corrupted, and you see their societies falling apart. Their moral values are constantly changing, so what was acceptable in 1900 in America is no longer acceptable today, and vice-versa. There's no consistency when it comes to their beliefs, and when you really analyse it, you realize how shallow and bankrupt their ideology is. You never saw the Noble Prophet bend over and apologize for his beliefs to the pagan Meccans, even though they were far more powerful and wealthy than he was. He stuck to his principles, he put his trust in Allah, and within a few years he overcame them and Islam became powerful. You never saw Abu Bakr and Umar bend over and cower in front of the Byzantine and Persian Armies, even though those were the 2 super-powers of the time. The Muslims were vastly outnumbered, out-gunned, and didn't have the economic resources of the Persians and Byzantines. But they stuck to their principles, and within a few years the Muslims overcame and conquered Persia and Rome. Islam is what it is. You need to get rid of this inferiority complex, and ONLY think about what Allah's opinion of you is. If the Muslims had the upper-hand today (which they will inshaAllah), and if we were the global powers of today....the same Liberal Muslims you see today would be supporting Shariah law. But because the United States and Europe are the global powers, you see them cowering and apologizing for their beliefs. Be consistent. Islam is the truth whether there are 2 billion Muslims or just 5 Muslims. And you have no right to reinterpret the religion according to your desires, as this is a form of Shirk and it's unacceptable. If you study the Shariah in detail, you will see the great wisdom behind it and you will conclude that it is by far the best system that exists. Islam isn't the best civilization, it's the ONLY civilization. We are the only people who are capable of being morally upright and economically productive, who master the fields of science while at the same time being humble towards Allah. And you should be proud that you are part of this faith.

 

Quran 3:110 "You are the best nation produced [as an example] for mankind. You enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and believe in Allah."

 

Quran 23:71 "But if the Truth had followed their inclinations, the heavens and the earth and whoever is in them would have been ruined. Rather, We have brought them their message, but they, from their message, are turning away." (stop reinterpreting Islam to follow your inclinations)

[DoctorKenney]

You see most of the Muslims nowadays who don't even pray their Salat, they imitate the Westerners in their mannerisms and dress, and they attempt to imitate Western countries when they form their governments (Pakistan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Morocco, Bangladesh, Jordan, Indonesia, etc.)

 

Start with your Salat. Everything else comes after. And victory will come after as a result. The Muslims nowadays don't practice their religion at all. They tend to be unproductive and ignorant and that is the reason why we're in such a weak position. But times change, and I hope that my grandchildren or great grandchildren witness the Rise of Islam again, because it will happen.

[Tallaabo]

Apophis;982595 wrote:

All those branches you mentioned collectively disagree with what you are. Clearly.

And what am I?:confused:

[Oiler]

Apophis;982589 wrote:

Paragraph after paragraph of substance less nothing.

Haha indeed. She hasn't said nothing at all. You can tell that she was not trying to direct anything to our friend on the far left.

[Oiler]

Tallaabo;982600 wrote:

And what am I?:confused:

Safferz left hand?

[Ibtisam]

Oiler;982607 wrote:

Haha indeed. She hasn't said nothing at all. You can tell that she was not trying to direct anything to our friend on the far left.

 

No, my friend- it just went above your head- it is okay it is not your fault.

 

Ap: You have graduated from pretending to be an atheist to sitting on the sides make childish remarks- congratulations.

[Oiler]

*Ibtisam;982655 wrote:

No, my friend- it just went above your head- it is okay it is not your fault.

 

Ap: You have graduated from pretending to be an atheist to sitting on the sides make childish remarks- congratulations.

Truth be told I haven't read your post fully, just skimmed through. I don't plan to read it as well, have a good-day madame.

[Ibtisam]

Oiler;982657 wrote:

Truth be told I haven't read your post fully, just skimmed through. I don't plan to read it as well, have a good-day madame.

So you are just a troller than- as I said I dont expect you to. Why, thank you- I will have a good, beautifully blessed day, inshallah.

 

AP: It is never personal- my opinions are mine regardless of whether other forum users find the useful or empty. and I was just pointing out the irony your new acquired position.

 

I'm out- enjoy the armature shouting debate which now passes as religious discussion.

 

P.s. Supernatural covers a vast area