The newest trend - xaliimos marrying chinese

[Ibtisam]

LOOL @ this thread- Regardless of how many generations we go- the issue of controlling Somali women options in marriage will remain important to our brothers. Mainly because Somali men think they OWN Somali women and no one else should mess with their stock. Cavemen mentality. Of course nin can do what he likes- because wa nin uu. I am always glad to see that Somali women continue to live their life as they see fit regardless of what their men folks say/do. People often comment oo "nin Somali aha miyaad weyed?" or like one of the poster said they think you married a foreign as a last resort" lol

 

BUT lets be honest- the majority of young Somali women are incompatible with Somali men of their age or even few years older- so they will better fit with people who share the ideals and the same internationalist view point. If young Somali men want to retain the majority of Somali girls in marriage who were born/ grew up in the west- a shift in both ideas and mentality is required. Otherwise both can purse different options- girls with finding what they want in others and men can return home and purchase a traditional marriage.

 

 

P.s. Regarding Somaliland Nationality- anyone living/ father born/living in Somaliland in 1960 can apply for Somaliland nationality- Including a heap of white British folks, Pakistanis and Indians. Also even kids with Somalilander mothers can have a Somaliland nationality so long as you can find a minister or elder to vouch for the mother. Naag daaya waaliid everything and anything is possible.

 

 

Congrats to the happy couple- looks like an amazing wedding- humans celebrating happiness- none of this colour, clan, race shiiid Somali warereisey

[DoctorKenney]

Safferz;982304 wrote:

Why do you ask me things you can

Google

?

 

Bear in mind that Al-Turabi is a political leader who is concerned with Sudan's legal system, that he believes consuming alcohol is not something that should be in the purview of the state (especially one like Sudan, which has Christians too) is not a big deal. Very few countries prohibit alcohol. And the

than the question of interfaith marriage, but you can do your own research on that and I'm not interested in getting into that discussion in this thread.

Please don't change Islam, by referencing the quotes of ONE obscure modern-day scholar. You sound ridiculous here.

 

It is well known that drinking alcohol (publicly that is), is indeed within the purview of the State, as the 4 Righteous Caliphs (Umar, Abu Bakr, Ali and Uthman) were known to punish alcoholics and they did so after the death of the Noble Prophet.

 

It is well known that Muslim women CANNOT marry Non-Muslims at all. Under no circumstances, and there are no exceptions to this rule. But a Muslim man can marry a chaste Jewish or Christian woman, but this is discouraged. And it would be preferable to marry a Muslim woman instead. I, as a Muslim man, am forbidden to marry an Atheist woman, or a Hindu woman, or a Buddhist woman. I'm ONLY allowed to marry a Christian or Jewish woman under very limited circumstances (she has to be religious, she has to be chaste) and many scholars even say that you would have to be living in an Islamic State for the marriage to be valid. That it wouldn't be valid if you were doing the marriage in the USA or Canada or Europe.

[DoctorKenney]

Safferz;982312 wrote:

^^ lol!

 

 

 

Well no, not quite, unless you conflate civil law with religious law. Classified also conflates behaviour (what Islam and religions in general try to regulate) with feelings, desires, thoughts, etc. He seems the type to tell a gay Muslim not to bother praying, because "you can't be gay and Muslim," but wouldn't say that to his friend with a girlfriend, or a Muslim who drinks and parties.

 

And I can't stand Irshad Manji.

You can be gay and Muslim, correct. You can even commit homosexual acts and still be Muslim, although you would be sinning. The same way how an alcoholic Muslim or a fornicating Muslim is still a Muslim, even though he's committing major sins. That's not the issue here.

 

The issue is: People who claim to be Muslim but then claim that homosexuality is fine. That there's nothing wrong with it. That homosexual acts are all good. Once you do that, you've left the fold of Islam and this is major kufr.

 

I have Muslim friends who drink alcohol while knowing that they're committing a sin and what they're doing is wrong. They are major sinners, but that doesn't make them Kafir. What would make them a Kafir is if they drank alcohol and attempted to justify it and claim that it's totally fine. There's a huge difference here.

 

That's the criteria. That's where the border-lines are drawn.

[Khayr]

There is a distinction between committing a sinful act and the endorsement of that act.

So saying that you Tariq admitted to committing zina and liked it is vastly different

from Tariq saying that he is of his free choice to do as he pleases and that there is no such thing as Zina.

In the latter, Tariq is endorsing in having pre-marital sex and says that it is acceptable.

 

So therefor; you can't endorse anything openly that goes against the ijma/consensus of pre-21st century ulamaa/Scholars.

As the ayat says for those that don't govern/judge by what Allah has revealed, then they are wrong doers.

[Safferz]

^^ look, like I said I have nothing invested in this debate and I don't care where people's opinions fall on this. If you have been reading this thread in context and read my responses to the semi-literate Classified, you would know that everything I've said is simply to point out that every matter that is ambiguous in the Quran is part of centuries of scholarly debate in Islamic intellectual history, and that everything that isn't explicitly stated to be haram in the Quran has been subject to scholarly inquiry. I'm sorry if it offends some of you fundamentalists that THIS is the Islamic tradition, and you can't change that. Ibn Taymiyyah said women can lead men in prayer, for instance. That was his scholarly opinion, others disagree. Am I "changing Islam" for saying that? No, except to morons who see everything in black and white and are unfamiliar with Islamic scholarship and history.

 

This is my last post in this thread, I've wasted enough time making this same point here.

[Tallaabo]

Classified;982317 wrote:

A gay muslim? lol

He is Muslim and gay, so what is your problem?:confused:

[Hawdian]

Apophis;982363 wrote:

Liberals and their semantics. They'll twist the world if it'll help them sleep at night. Quite disgusting and spineless actually.

. You hit the nail in the head with that statement . Nothing more to add .:cool:

[Oiler]

Everything is subject to scholarly debates? hmm, what about the Hadith? People like Tariq Fatah claim to be a Muslim scholar and you have some people quote him in debates. The question of who do you consider a Muslim scholar or follow is extremely important.

[DoctorKenney]

Safferz;982385 wrote:

^^ look, like I said I have nothing invested in this debate and I don't care where people's opinions fall on this. If you have been reading this thread in context and read my responses to the semi-literate Classified, you would know that

everything I've said is simply to point out that every matter that is ambiguous in the Quran is part of centuries of scholarly debate in Islamic intellectual history, and that everything that isn't explicitly stated to be haram in the Quran has been subject to scholarly inquiry.

I'm sorry if it offends some of you fundamentalists that THIS is the Islamic tradition, and you can't change that. Ibn Taymiyyah said women can lead men in prayer, for instance. That was his scholarly opinion, others disagree. Am I "changing Islam" for saying that? No, except to morons who see everything in black and white and are unfamiliar with Islamic scholarship and history.

 

This is my last post in this thread, I've wasted enough time making this same point here.

I really suggest you stick to your Liberal Arts studies in college and refrain from talking about things you know nothing about. If you make a claim, you'd better substantiate it or withdraw it. Don't make the claim, and then claim that you're "uninterested" to carry the topic on further. And don't reference ambiguous Islamic politicians to make a point.

 

I'm advising you to remain silent about what you don't know, as you're only making a fool of yourself on this forum. Don't approach topics with little research and zero knowledge. We are all laypeople, and you should be honest enough to admit that

[Safferz]

DoctorKenney;982402 wrote:

I really suggest you stick to your Liberal Arts studies in college and refrain from talking about things you know nothing about. If you make a claim, you'd better substantiate it or withdraw it. Don't make the claim, and then claim that you're "uninterested" to carry the topic on further. And don't reference ambiguous Islamic politicians to make a point.

 

I'm advising you to remain silent about what you don't know, as you're only making a fool of yourself on this forum. Don't approach topics with little research and zero knowledge. We are all laypeople, and you should be honest enough to admit that

Try a PhD in history, but I suppose I know nothing about Islamic history or intellectual traditions (despite it being one of my fields) since some bozo on the internet says so. What I'm uninterested in is carrying on with people who don't know how to read or process argument, who lack the intellectual curiosity and open mindedness required for productive debate and exchange, who are more interested in attacking strawmans and projecting positions I've never stated, and who can only see the world (specifically religion here, but you and others in this thread are the same way when it comes to politics, family, etc) in black and white because they are too dumb to complicate things further and see the grey.

 

In other words, I don't have the time or energy to debate with morons on the internet. I was going back to make edits and add to my post but saw it's now on page 7, so thought I should just re-state this again here. Peace.

[DoctorKenney]

That was a long-winded paragraph insulting me and others on this forum, without really saying anything of substance. You don't know me and you know nothing about me at all. But nice job making assumptions about my character.

 

And it's laughable how your "PHD in History" from an American school makes you qualified to make personal Ijtihad on Islamic Fiqh when it's clear that you know nothing about Quranic Tafsir, Hadiths and early Islamic history. Your little Liberal Arts degree is giving you the confidence and nerve to make long-winded posts about topics you're totally ignorant of, and then you try to pass yourself as an intellectual. Learn your place, you're an amateur.

 

I once took a class on the French Revolution when I was in University. Does this somehow make me an expert on French History? Or does it make me a man who knows a little bit about France and that's it.

 

And it's clear from your posts that you look at Islam through your liberal lenses, and you try and interpret Islam according to your Liberal inclinations. And you're telling me that I "lack intellectual curiosity".

 

Either speak good or remain silent. I'm advising you to remain silent, re-enrol in University, and study something else instead. Something worthwhile

 

Thanks to you Safferz, If I ever have children (inshaAllah), I will explicitly forbid my daughters and sons from studying Liberal Arts in University, and instead make them study Engineering, Healthcare or any of the other hard sciences. I'm not gonna have them become as corrupted and deluded as you. What a shame wallahi

[SomaliPhilosopher]

The inherit problem in this debate is safferz is approaching Islam academically-a more so theoretical angle- and the rest r approaching Islam as everyday practicers- practical Islam... practically two different religions

[Khayr]

DoctorKenney;982418 wrote:

That was a long-winded paragraph insulting me and others on this forum, without really saying anything of substance. You don't know me and you know nothing about me at all. But nice job making assumptions about my character.

 

And it's laughable how your "PHD in History" from an American school makes you qualified to make personal Ijtihad on Islamic Fiqh when it's clear that you know

nothing

about Quranic Tafsir, Hadiths and early Islamic history. Your little Liberal Arts degree is giving you the confidence and nerve to make long-winded posts about topics you're totally ignorant of, and then you try to pass yourself as an intellectual.

Learn your place, you're an amateur.

 

I once took a class on the French Revolution when I was in University. Does this somehow make me an expert on French History? Or does it make me a man who knows a little bit about France and that's it.

 

And it's clear from your posts that you look at Islam through your liberal lenses, and you try and interpret Islam according to your Liberal inclinations. And you're telling me that I "lack intellectual curiosity".

 

Either speak good or remain silent.

I'm advising you to remain silent

, re-enrol in University, and study something else instead. Something worthwhile

 

Thanks to you Safferz, If I ever have children (inshaAllah),

I will explicitly forbid my daughters and sons from studying Liberal Arts

in University, and instead make them study Engineering, Healthcare or any of the other hard sciences. I'm not gonna have them become as corrupted and deluded as you. What a shame wallahi

Our youth are easy prey sheep for the sheep in wolves clothing world of liberal academia. They almost always graduate with another Shahada (pun intended).

[DoctorKenney]

Khayr;982454 wrote:

Our youth are easy prey sheep for the sheep in wolves clothing world of liberal academia. They almost always graduate with another Shahada (pun intended).

It's actually such a disgrace saaxib. Somali kids going into university and studying Philosophy or Sociology or some other useless major and they graduate with the assumption that they know everything and often use big fancy words when talking just to prove a point. I have a couple Somali girls on my Facebook that are guilty of this. I see them writing long paragraphs on topics they know nothing about, but because they have a Liberal Arts degree, they feel like their opinion is worth something.

 

Islam is as it is. You can't "re-interpet" Islam to fit your desires. Either take it or leave it. Islam has 2 aspects; 1. Aqeedah and 2. Fiqh .....If you don't even understand the Aqeedah fully then you have no right to start speaking of Fiqh issues. Get your basics done first. I don't see a 7 year old kid trying to understand Algebra and Calculus, so why is Safferz trying to do the same with Islamic Fiqh?

 

There are many many books about Islam, and I suggest you start increasing your knowledge on it and you'll eventually realize the great wisdom behind Islamic legislation. But take baby steps first.

[Wadani]

Apophis;982440 wrote:

You're talking out of your backside. One side are trying to fit the square of Islam into a liberal hexagonal space for clearly personal reasons, while the other side present the religion as it is.

 

I have rarely agreed with what DoctorKenny writes on this forum but he's utterly correct here. Islam is really clear on this, either accept it for what it is or leave it.

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