Scottish Independence and Somalia

[Allyourbase]

I have been thinking lately how similar the quest for Scottish independence is to that of Somaliland, as both seem like smaller nations that were amalgamated by means of not-so-fair unions with larger neighbours. As the momentum for independance grow, it seems that Scotland would either be going solo comes next years referendum or at the very least attempt to get even more fiscal powers through its system of devolution (devo max?).

 

Would a reunion with Somalia be possible on the premise of having a referendum (in 3-5 years time) that is limited to the historical Somaliland Protectorate?

[Tallaabo]

Given the fact that the Southern politicians can not be relies upon to honour even the agreements they signed with Somaliland a mere three months ago, there is no chance of a re-union under any circumstance.

[Mad_Mullah]

re-union won't happen. But at the same time you can't compare the Scotts to Somalilanders.

[Saalax]

Tallaabo;981027 wrote:

Given the fact that the Southern politicians can not be relies upon to honour even the agreements they signed with Somaliland a mere three months ago, there is no chance of a re-union under any circumstance.

 

This.

[Homunculus]

Completely different situations, but signs points to a referendum ( I hope it doesn't come to this).

[Hawdian]

the talks are dead from what im hearing and now starts the interestng part. will the international community go for a sudan south sudan like route or a eritrea ethiopia or serbia montenegro we will see . latest is somaliya have decided not to honor the istanbul talks and the airspace will not be shared and the office will be in moqdisho said by ilmoge somaliya minster for post n transpotation . Somaliland interior minster Warancade today said no somaliya pasports are allowed in R. of Somaliland or allowed for entry exit. lets hope it ends with an international referenduim by UN to end this once for all.

[xiinfaniin]

The talks are not dead. However, just like Oodweyne predicted, current leadership in Somaliland has failed to appreciate the whole reason for which these talks have been sanctioned in the first place. That the talks are entering in discussion of final status (union and how), Somaliland leadership is now starting to realize the magnitude of what they signed up for. It is not that the talks are difficulty. It is rather that this leadership is not prepared to face the reality of a failed recognition bid and discuss alternative solutions to the prolonged political isolation.

 

Fortunately for Somaliland, the leadership in Mogadishu are nursing self inflicted wounds of their own, and have neither the mandate nor the political will to engage in serious talks. The Turks are left to hold the bag. We shall see how they proceed.

[Allyourbase]

Mad_Mullah;981101 wrote:

re-union won't happen. But at the same time you can't compare the Scotts to Somalilanders.

We are only comparing them as two entities that have large sections of their population wanting to be independant.

 

It really seems like a clear and easy solution, perhaps too easy. I mean, what would the problem be with a reunion with view of referendum within the borders of Somaliland in a couple of years?

[Hawdian]

The talks were started in first place to try to get the two States of The Somaliland Republic and Somaliya to agee on their furture relationship. If these two States do Not agree Thats when The international community Namely Britain, The European Union,Norway(A big player in Internaitonal mediation), etc . Will come in to provide the Legal,Diplomatic Help.

 

Somaliland And Somaliya at First London Conference agreed on :

 

The two Sides called on the international community to help provide experts on legal, economic and security matters, which are all issues that will need to be addressed in clarifying the future relationship between Somalia and Somaliland.

 

And in the End what we shall clarified is two Political states in the legal terms of of the word. And thats where the referendum In the Former British Somaliland will come in to Play.

[Allyourbase]

I think the referendum is a very sensible solution as it would give the Somali republic time to lure people back to its stand and in a couple of years should they choose to vote for independence then it would only be fair to let them go.

[Allyourbase]

An other aspect that I wish to highlight is the presence within Scotland of parts that seemingly do not wish to part with the rest of the UK, namely the Shetland isles. These are very important to the economy of a future independent Scotland seeing as they happen to have large oil reserves, so again it would be interesting to see how that pans out.

[Hawdian]

ooh the fake Somalino nationalism always talked about by our Koonfurian Neigbours. Let me just tell you that this time When the referendum come to R. Somaliland. The voting will be only in the Somaliland republic.

We we all know what happen in 1961 When the district of Wale Weyn had more yes Votes then the total population of Moqdishu.

 

Referendum on the 1960 Somali Republic Constitution on 20 June 1961

 

There was blatant ballot rigging 1961 in the district of “Wala Weyn” which returned a near 100% Yes vote of 68,994 - a figure which exceeded by over 50% the total number of persons who voted at the capital city of Mogadishu which was recorded as 42,583. From then onwards, the Somaliland people referred to the Somalia(n) people as “Wala Weyn”!

The Somali union never had a chance to work as it was killed on its first day by reer Wale Weyn.

[Allyourbase]

I do not see any workable plan that does not include a referendum within the borders of the Somaliland Protectorate, I was simply alluding to the similarities with the other state seeking independence i.e. Scotland in having parts of the country wanting to remain within the union.

[xiinfaniin]

Referendum within the borders of old British Somaliland is not feasible in current political climate.

 

The conflict in Somalia is political in nature. Politics in Somalia is organized around clans. That is to say clan allegiance drive political discourse in the country. There are two major clans in the North and East: The Mothers and D block. Though they are two distinct clans, the lands they graze and political jurisdictions they claim are not. Case in point: when clans in the north declared independence from Somalia, clans in the East rejected the declaration. When Clans in Puntland declared an autonomous state, clans in the North rejected the declaration.

 

That is why referendum in the North will not resolve what is essentially a clan driven political disagreement.

...and that is just one reason why referendum is not feasible. A more powerful argument against a refferundum in which only pro secessionist clans vote is the fact the union was sanctioned by all Somalis in 1960. All Somalis, the arguments goes, shall therefore vote to either nullify the union or reaffirm it.

[Hawdian]

The talks are only between the former british Somaliland and the former italian colony of somalia . present day they r republic of Somaliland and the state of fed. Somaliya so the argument about clans is not valid. Who the talks are between is already a concluded agreement and signed a bit late to make objections now .