Richard Dawking mocked the Muslim World's intellectual inferiority

[DoctorKenney]

Allyourbase;991003 wrote:

So FINALLY you agree that Aisha is a sinner? And she, along with Albany and Ibn Taymiyyah's understanding of this matter is morbid, immoral, strange and definitely not part of islam?

 

 

Do you agree?

 

(Say yes

)

NOPE.

 

She's incorrect. And he was incorrect.

 

And yes, they may have committed sins in their life (along with virtually all humans), but they're not sinners, far from it actually. And whatever minor sins they might have committed, they were known to frequently repent to God for forgiveness everyday.

 

That's all I have to say about it, and I won't tolerate you attempting to defame the character of Aisha or Al Albaani. People make mistakes. Including our scholars. And the rulings they're right on, is far more than the rulings they're incorrect on.

 

So end the topic.

[Allyourbase]

HOLD IT.

 

 

You yourself said that the act of allowing a strange man to suckle on you or your relatives for a woman was 'bizarre'. You said that yourself. And it is documented by your own sources that Aisha did that very thing that you thought was immoral and strange.

 

So why not just say it?

 

Is she not a normal person like you and me? Have you not said before that this practice is 'bizarre'?

 

Okay, what about your beloved Prophet, was he incorrect too? Because he was the one who ordered such practice to begin.

 

If we all agree that the act in itself is vile, why not condemn those who propagated it?

[Raamsade]

People like Dr. Ken are textbook example of the price religious dogma exacts on the human intellect. Even when confronted with unassailable arguments and evidence, rather do what most rational people would do and consider revising his previous positions, he digs in further. That is what dogma does, it forces you to stick to a position no matter what your head or heart tells you.

[DoctorKenney]

Here is the link that goes into further detail regarding this. Everyone reading this thread should click on it

 

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=4806&CATE=120

 

Either way, you're jumping around here trying to prove something that's not true. It's not valid in Shariah. It's an incorrect ruling, and I've given plenty of examples showing you. And even Aisha herself, never believed that it was okay for a strange man to suckle out of a woman directly. What she believed in, was pouring the milk into a utensil or a cup, and then give the cup to the man to drink, without exposing her body parts. Allyourbase would have us believe that there were lines of men waiting to suckle on her, which is totally wrong and is a complete fabrication, and he is slandering the name of Aisha.. He's giving no evidence at all for his beliefs.

 

Again, read the link I provided, which provides different evidences but reaches the same conclusions.

 

That's all I have to say about this issue. And there are plenty of refutations on the net

 

All he's doing (Allyourbase) is basically trying desperately to validate his pre-conceived beliefs and then try to pass it off as a legitimate ruling in Islam. He's wrong, I've proven him wrong several times on this thread, and that should be the end of this discussion. The link I provided goes into far greater detail than me, but it still says everything I needed to say.

[Wing Wizard]

DoctorKenney;990905 wrote:

Right now we're talking about rulings, and Wizard claiming that seeking scientific knowledge is forbidden in Islam, which I stated is false.

I said the Wahabi sheikhs preach against science and law which is true.

 

Your average Muslim person living in the Great Middle East isn't knowledgeable enough about the Islamic religion and his source of information is the average Wahabi sheikh in the local masjid who wants to talk about science while his knowledge about science is big fat ZERO.

 

We're in the 21st century and these local sheikhs still tell people that a man automatically becomes kaafir if he believes a mankind has ever landed on the moon or a solar eclipse occurs when the moon passes between the sun and earth.

 

Your average Muslim person takes the talk of these sheikhes in the local masjid as Qur'aan.

 

Whether you like it or not, that's the painful truth in our Muslim world.

[DoctorKenney]

Raamsade;991008 wrote:

People like Dr. Ken are textbook example of the price religious dogma exacts on the human intellect. Even when confronted with unassailable arguments and evidence, rather do what most rational people would do and consider revising his previous positions, he digs in further. That is what dogma does, it forces you to stick to a position no matter what your head or heart tells you.

Raamsade, and you're a textbook example of what price "religious bias" exacts on the human intellect. You already have your pre-conceived notions of what Islam is, and you'll look at this discussion, read a couple of AllYourBase's points, and then claim that what he's claiming is true and factual. You do this without even looking at the other side, and without even looking at the overwhelming evidence in my favor, which proves Allyourbase as being wrong.

 

But no, according to you, religious people are the ones who are not rational. I can come with 50 pieces of evidence, you'll come up with 1 or 2 pieces of evidence that are abrogated, and then you'll claim that you're the one who's in the right. Your hypocrisy is telling.

[Khayr]

Offbase,

 

Aisha (ر) reported the hadith but where did it say that men where suckling her breast? You are

spewing this thread with your garbage and you are being insideous with your circular line of questioning. You should be banned!

[DoctorKenney]

Wing Wizard;991010 wrote:

I said the Wahabi sheikhs preach against science and law which is true.

 

Your average Muslim person living in the Great Middle East isn't knowledgeable enough about the Islamic religion and his source of information is the average Wahabi sheikh in the local masjid who wants to talk about science while his knowledge about science is big fat ZERO.

 

We're in the 21st century and these local sheikhs still tell people that a man automatically becomes kaafir if he believes a mankind has ever landed on the moon or a solar eclipse occurs when the moon passes between the sun and earth.

 

Your average Muslim person takes the talk of these sheikhes in the local masjid as Qur'aan.

 

Whether you like it or not, that's the painful truth in our Muslim world.

Dude, do you even know what a Wahhabi is?

 

And have you ever even lived in these countries?

 

Do you actually believe that Local Imams make takfir on people who state that a solar eclipse is when the moon passes in front of the sun? You actually believe in this? I doubt you've ever been to these countries. You sound like you're repeating what you hear on the internet. I've been to literally dozens of mosques in the Middle East and Africa and I've never heard anything of the sort. You're making it up.

[DoctorKenney]

Khayr;991012 wrote:

Offbase,

 

Aisha (ر) reported the hadith but where did it say that men where suckling her breast? You are

spewing this thread with your garbage and you are being insideous with your circular line of questioning. You should be banned!

Saaxib, read the link I provided too.

 

Worst case scenario, she permitted drinking someone's breast-milk out of a cup in order to make that person a Mahram. So you put the milk in a cup first, then cover yourself up, then give it to that person to drink. Allyourbase took that incorrect ruling, and made an entire argument based on that weak argument. He blatantly lied on this forum, and I see no reason to tolerate his BS

 

Nowhere in hell did it say that men were suckling her breast. Aisha never uncovered herself, she never spoke to men except through a barrier, and was a rather private person.

 

Either way, I gotta leave the house.

[Allyourbase]

DoctorKenney;991009 wrote:

Here is the link that goes into further detail regarding this. Everyone reading this thread should click on it

 

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=4806&CATE=120

 

Either way, you're jumping around here trying to prove something that's not true. It's not valid in Shariah. It's an incorrect ruling, and I've given plenty of examples showing you.

And even Aisha herself,

never believed

that it was okay for a strange man to suckle out of a woman directly.

What she believed in, was pouring the milk into a utensil or a cup, and then give the cup to the man to drink, without exposing her body parts.

Allyourbase would have us believe that there were lines of men waiting to suckle on her, which is totally wrong and is a complete fabrication, and he is slandering the name of Aisha. He's giving no evidence at all for his beliefs.

 

Again, read the link I provided, which provides different evidences but reaches the same conclusions.

 

That's all I have to say about this issue. And there are plenty of refutations on the net

 

All he's doing (Allyourbase) is basically trying desperately to validate his pre-conceived beliefs and then try to pass it off as a legitimate ruling in Islam. He's wrong, I've proven him wrong several times on this thread, and that should be the end of this discussion. The link I provided goes into far greater detail than me, but it still says everything I needed to say.

 

I DO NOT CARE about the practicalities of the suckling, certainly the Hadith I have quoted when your prophet ordered the woman to allow the strange bearded man to suckle on her breast was explicit in the usage of the word suckle.

 

In fact here is a lecture on this very topic by Sheikh Al Huwayni, who was a student of one of your own favourite Sheikhs mr. Al Albany, clearly refuting the 'drinking the woman's milk from a cup' rehtoric that you are presenting:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-cNu1EOzAA

 

 

What she believed in, was pouring the milk into a utensil or a cup, and then give the cup to the man to drink, without exposing her body parts.

Dude you are talking as if the actual suckling is weird and what you presented is alright, this is insane!

 

Do you think it is normal for a woman to pour her own milk into a cup for a strange man to drink?! Do think this is acceptable behaviour?

 

As I said I do not care about the practicalities of this weird, messed up practice. What is important to me is the fact that Aisha did practice it and that your prophet ordered a woman to allow a man to suckle on her exposed breast.

 

Now you did not answer me, what do you think of this behaviour, seriously, what is your opinion on it?

[Allyourbase]

Apophis;991016 wrote:

Ffs stop discussing grown men drinking or not breast milk. Utterly disgusting and macabre.

Chill, I totally agree with you, its disgusting and I think one of the most vile things I have ever heard, but it was a practice directly linked to the prophet of islam and his wife Aisha. I am so sorry if I have offended you.

[Wing Wizard]

DoctorKenney;991013 wrote:

I doubt you've ever been to these countries.

Why are you in attack mode, ditoore? I've been to enough Muslim World countries (including Somalia, Pakistan and Yemen) and every time a solar or lunar eclipse occurs these sheikhs come in packs claiming it's haaraam to believe what the kaafir says.

[Guje]

^ for all we know you could be a perv getting a kick out of it, secretly hoping folks will prolong this saga.

 

i am confused is this breastfeeding stuff really allowed or what ??? i remember a while back a crazy fatwa come on facebook that had everyone talking.

[Allyourbase]

Guje;991022 wrote:

^ for all we know you could be a perv getting a kick out of it, secretly hoping folks will prolong this saga.

 

i am confused is this breastfeeding stuff really allowed or what ??? i remember a while back a crazy fatwa come on facebook that had everyone talking.

Haha, no I am just exposing some of the sick behaviour Arabs did and proclaim today as religion.

 

Dont be confused about it. Basically Mohamed ordered a woman to breastfeed a strange man so he can become Mahram for her (weird, I know!) and she did. Later on Aisha, his wife, used this as a ruling that general in Islam and not specific to the case of the woman who was ordered by the prophet. So Aisha would ask her sisters or their daughters to breastfeed any man Aisha wanted to have access to her quarters, a practice which the other wives of the prophet did not agree with.

 

These are the FACTS of the matter, and beyond this I will only be giving you my opinion.

 

I will not be feeding you propaganda links like DrKenny and co would, I will simply tell you to look it all up yourself. And see the discussion on it and make up your mind. What I stated above is what is present in the Sunna books and the Hadiths relating to it are all Sahih. Thats all. Hope it helps.

[Khayr]

As I said I do not care about the practicalities of this weird, messed up practice. What is important to me is the fact that Aisha did practice it and that your prophet ordered a woman to allow a man to suckle on her exposed breast.

 

You are a troll parading around on and rehearsing your Freudian fantasies. You shoulf be BANNED!