Richard Dawking mocked the Muslim World's intellectual inferiority

[DoctorKenney]

They're frauds because some of them made some mistakes, mistakes which some of them actually repented from years later? You want to define these Sheikhs by singular statements despite them writing volumes of books on my topics?

 

And Aisha came up with this ruling because she genuinely believed it was a valid ruling ....stop trying to make it seem as if she instituted this ruling out of her personal interests, as you have no evidence of this.

 

And fine, you can dislike these Sheikhs and disagree with them. In fact, any Muslim can. It's irrelevant either way.

[Allyourbase]

DoctorKenney;990962 wrote:

And Aisha came up with this ruling because she genuinely believed it was a valid ruling ....stop trying to make it seem as if she instituted this ruling out of her personal interests, as you have no evidence of this.

 

What more evidence do you need?

 

 

She went against the 'ijmaac' of her fellow prophet wives and other so called Sahaba to do something that is viewed (even by yourself!!!) to be bizarre and strange and immoral by anyones standard. And that is the wife of your prophet!

[DoctorKenney]

I never said it was immoral. I was it was strange. Aisha thought it was a valid ruling and thats why she preached it. And Aisha was a human and capable of making errors

[Allyourbase]

She exploited the religion to get men who are not related to her to access her quarters. That sounds immoral to me brother

[magicbird]

Allyourbase;990939 wrote:

Not to dwell on this point but hold on a second..

 

 

Are you telling me that your 'mother', Um Al Mu'miniin Aisha the wife of your Prophet is performing an act that is bizarre? That she is indeed incorrect?

 

I say this because Aisha, wife of the Prophet of Islam did indeed practice this 'bizarre' ritual, whereby if she wanted a man who is a stranger to her to come to her quarters and become 'Mahram' she would order her sisters and their daughters to allow those men to suckle on them.

 

This is from Malik's Muwata':

 

 

 

Its really bizarre and evidently so by the refusal of the prophet's other wives to practice this.

Straw man argument. "Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; [that is] for those who wish to complete the [full period of] suckling [2:233]." Then everybody knows that as Muslims we're taught to lower our gaze and not be alone with the other gender, and you would want us to believe that Aisha ra said that.

Handikaab caadhi baa tahay. Ma fahmin sabata qof somali ah oo u diinta dadka naguumeyste u qaadan karo. I'd understand if you were one of those b**tards the Italians left.

[magicbird]

Dr Kenney, aboowe don't be listening to this fool, the story of Salem is a legend that was made up to discredit Aisha ra by the enemies of Islam. So anything any corrupt person says, verify it.

[Khayr]

وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنِ افْتَرَىٰ عَلَى اللَّهِ كَذِبًا أُولَٰئِكَ يُعْرَضُونَ عَلَىٰ رَبِّهِمْ وَيَقُولُ الْأَشْهَادُ هَٰؤُلَاءِ الَّذِينَ كَذَبُوا عَلَىٰ رَبِّهِمْ أَلَا لَعْنَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَى الظَّالِمِينَ

 

And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah? These shall be brought before their Lord, and the witnesses shall say: These are they who lied against their Lord. Now surely the curse of Allah is on the unjust.

 

الَّذِينَ يَصُدُّونَ عَن سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ وَيَبْغُونَهَا عِوَجًا وَهُم بِالْآخِرَةِ هُمْ كَافِرُونَ

 

Who turn away from the path of Allah and desire to make it crooked; and they are disbelievers in the hereafter.

 

Sura Hud, Ayat 18-19

 

This was the reaction and the arrogance the Nabi Nuh(عليهِ السلام)

received from the people.

 

In the first ayat, Allah defines ظُلم

(being unjust/wrond doing) to include lying against God.

Why would lying against God be wrong?

It is because in doing so, a person makes themselves to be God.

Their pride and self-opinionation makes them commit this unjustice. It is unjust because it is. betrayal of one's self against one's soul. ف نفخته بروحِ

 

أَرَأَيْتَ مَنِ اتَّخَذَ إِلَٰهَهُ هَوَاهُ أَفَأَنتَ تَكُونُ عَلَيْهِ وَكِيلًا

 

Have you seen him who takes his self opinionation/lower self for his god? Will you then be a protector over him?

 

It is precisely due to this arrogance in one's opinionation that got Iblis kicked out of heaven

خلقتنِ مِن نار و خلقته مِن طين

 

Allyourbase is only

concerned with his own thoughts.

Aisha (ر) did make mistakes in her decisions the most glaring

being fighting Hadrat Ali in the Battle of the Camel. What is being implied by Offbase is that muslims are ******. No muslim goes around looking to suck on breasts,

so that he becomes the "mahrim" of that women. That is ridiculous and a fallacy that you are trying to push. In no fiqh book is their

proof and agreement that sucking breasts (of other women that are

not your spouse) is acceptable.

Stop trying to sell us your Freudian sexual thoughts.

 

Offbase, what you are attempting to do is discredit the deen, the Ulama and the rank of Hadrat Aisha (ر). That is called ridiculing and that is not acceptable.

[Allyourbase]

magicbird;990968 wrote:

Straw man argument. "Mothers shall suckle their children for two whole years; [that is] for those who wish to complete the [full period of] suckling [2:233]." Then everybody knows that as Muslims we're taught to lower our gaze and not be alone with the other gender, and you would want us to believe that Aisha ra said that.

Handikaab caadhi baa tahay. Ma fahmin sabata qof somali ah oo u diinta dadka naguumeyste u qaadan karo. I'd understand if you were one of those b**tards the Italians left.

Waa ku sidee sxb, if you think she did not, dee Mr. Google weydii.

 

magicbird;990969 wrote:

Dr Kenney, aboowe don't be listening to this fool, the story of Salem is a legend that was made up to discredit Aisha ra by the enemies of Islam. So anything any corrupt person says, verify it.

What if it was authentic?

 

Honestly, what if it was? What would you say then?

 

Let me step this up. In fact, it was not only Aisha. The Prophet of Islam is the first person to mention this loophole, ka warran! Please note that the hadith below is Sahih, and if you are in doubt do google it.

 

Narrated A'isha 'Sahlah bint Suhail came to the Prophet (saw) and said 'O Messenger of Allah (swt), I see signs of displeasure on the face of Abo Hudhaifah when Salim enters upon me', The Prophet (saw) said: "Breastfeed him!", She said: "How can I breastfeed him when he is a grown man!?" The messenger of Allah (swt) smiled and said 'I know that he is a grown man!'. So she did that, then she came to the Prophet (saw) and said "I have never seen any signs of displeasure on the face of Abo Hudhayfah after that. And he was present at the battle of Badar.

 

Hadith is sahih, (authentic)

 

edit:

 

Let me add that as I was looking though the authenticity of this loophole/ritual, and guess what, DoctorKenny's hero, one of the Sheikhs that he personally named above as a 'non obscure', 'good', 'halaal' Sheikhs: Ibn Taymiyyah also is a proponent of this loophole i.e. the suckling of a grown man.

 

Now please remember how he belittled their 'secular' knowledge and said:

 

They are experts on Fiqh and Aqeedah only, but when it comes to secular knowledge then they are not authorities at all

So he denounced their authority except for Fiqh and religious ruling in which they are 'experts'. Watch him backpedal their religious authority too now

 

http://www.islamqa.com/ar/ref/85115

[DoctorKenney]

magicbird;990969 wrote:

Dr Kenney, aboowe don't be listening to this fool, the story of Salem is a legend that was made up to discredit Aisha ra by the enemies of Islam. So anything any corrupt person says, verify it.

Yes walaal, he's a corrupt person and what he's saying is attempting to discredit Aisha.

 

Anyways, here's a Sahih Hadith which proves him wrong:

 

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said “Nothing of breastfeeding creates the relationship of mahram except what fills the stomach to bursting point,

before (the age of) weaning.

” Reported by al-Tirmidhi. (No. 1152)

Notice the underlined part. Before the age of weaning ie. Before the age of 2 years old. The argument has now devolved to us running in circles, and it's reached a point where AllYourBase is throwing accusations against Islam and we're supposed to sit here, defending it from his misconceptions.

 

Allyoubase is more than welcome to do his own research, in a different forum, which addresses these sort of topics. There are a million Islamic forums on the net, and he can pick whichever one he chooses next time he wants to bring forth an accusation against Islam.

[magicbird]

Allyourbase;990939 wrote:

Not to dwell on this point but hold on a second..

 

 

Are you telling me that your 'mother', Um Al Mu'miniin Aisha the wife of your Prophet is performing an act that is bizarre? That she is indeed incorrect?

 

I say this because Aisha, wife of the Prophet of Islam did indeed practice this 'bizarre' ritual, whereby if she wanted a man who is a stranger to her to come to her quarters and become 'Mahram' she would order her sisters and their daughters to allow those men to suckle on them.

 

This is from Malik's Muwata':

 

 

 

Its really bizarre and evidently so by the refusal of the prophet's other wives to practice this.

Anything a kafir or a fasiq says goes one from ear and out from the other. If you want a refutation here's one straight from google.

 

"Know o Muslim, may Allah have mercy upon you, that the issue of Adult Breastfeeding (رضاع الكبير)*has a Tafseel (further specification of a matter).

 

What was the real khilaaf (difference of opinion) between the Mothers of Believers? The real khilaaf between the Mothers of Believers was that 'Aaisha held the opinion that it is allowed to breastfeed the child*that passed the two years of breastfeedingby a short period but didn't reached the age of a grown man (except in an exceptional case, like Salem's one).*

 

 

'Aaisha*did no breastfeed any grown man, neither did she ordered anyone to do so.

 

 

Proof:

 

و حَدَّثَنِي عَنْ مَالِك عَنْ نَافِعٍ أَنَّ سَالِمَ بْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّ عَائِشَةَ أُمَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

 

أَرْسَلَتْ بِهِ وَهُوَ يَرْضَعُ إِلَى أُخْتِهَا أُمِّ كُلْثُومٍ بِنْتِ أَبِي بَكْرٍ الصِّدِّيقِ فَقَالَتْ أَرْضِعِيهِ عَشْرَ رَضَعَاتٍ حَتَّى يَدْخُلَ عَلَيَّ قَالَ سَالِمٌ فَأَرْضَعَتْنِي أُمُّ كُلْثُومٍ ثَلَاثَ رَضَعَاتٍ ثُمَّ مَرِضَتْ فَلَمْ تُرْضِعْنِي غَيْرَ ثَلَاثِ رَضَعَاتٍ*فَلَمْ

 

أَكُنْ أَدْخُلُ عَلَى عَائِشَةَ مِنْ أَجْلِ أَنَّ أُمَّ كُلْثُومٍ لَمْ تُتِمَّ لِي عَشْرَ رَضَعَاتٍ

 

الموطأ مالك 2239

 

 

 

So we see that 'Aaisha asked her sister Umm Kulthuum bint Abi Bakr as-Siddeeq to breastfeed Saalim ibn 'Abdillaah while he was a Radee' (less then two years old). So after 3 rada'aat, Umm Kulthuum became sick and didn't complete the 10 rada'aat, so*Saalim ibn 'Abdillaah became big anddid not*entered upon 'Aaisha after becoming a man because Umm Kulthuum didn't complete the 10 rada'aat.

 

 

If 'Aaisha really held the opinion that it was allowed to suckle grown up man in ANY SITUATION, she would have asked one of her sisters's daughters to suckle him so that he can still enter upon her, but the opposite was the case i.e.**he stopped entering upon her because he didn't complete 10 rada'aat when he was a Radee'.

sisters's daughters to suckle him so that he can still enter upon her, but the opposite was the case i.e.**he stopped entering upon her because he didn't complete 10 rada'aat when he was a Radee'.

 

 

 

Shubha (doubt), is the word "Rijaal" (men) used in the narrations.

 

 

Here is the hadeeth that the*Raafidah polytheists along with the Nasaaraa (Christ-Worshippers)**use tas a*Shubha:

 

 

حدثني يحيى عن مالك عن*ابن شهاب*أنه سئل عن رضاعة الكبير فقال أخبرني*عروة بن الزبير*أن*أبا حذيفة بن عتبة بن ربيعة*وكان منأصحاب رسول الله*صلى الله عليه وسلم وكان قد شهد*بدرا*وكان تبنى*سالما*الذي يقال له*سالممولى*أبي حذيفة*كما تبنى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلمزيد بن حارثة*وأنكح*أبو حذيفة*سالما*وهو يرى أنه ابنه أنكحه بنت أخيه*فاطمة بنت الوليد بن عتبة بن ربيعة*وهي يومئذ من المهاجرات الأول وهي من أفضل أيامى*قريشفلما أنزل الله تعالى في كتابه في*زيد بن حارثة*ما أنزل فقال*ادعوهم لآبائهم هو أقسط عند الله فإن لم تعلموا آباءهم فإخوانكم في الدين ومواليكم*رد كل واحد من أولئك إلى أبيه فإن لم يعلم أبوه رد إلى مولاه فجاءت*سهلة بنت سهيل*وهي امرأة*أبي حذيفة*وهي منبني عامر بن لؤيإلى رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم فقالت يا رسول الله كنا نرى*سالما*ولدا وكان يدخل علي وأنا فضل وليس لنا إلا بيت واحد فماذا ترى في شأنه فقال لها رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم*أرضعيه خمس رضعات فيحرم بلبنها*وكانت تراه ابنا من الرضاعة*فأخذت بذلك*عائشة أم المؤمنين*فيمن كانت تحب أن يدخل عليها من الرجال فكانت تأمر أختها*أم كلثوم بنت أبي بكر الصديق*وبنات أخيها أن يرضعن من أحبت أن يدخل عليها من الرجال*وأبى سائر أزواج النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم*أن يدخل عليهن بتلك الرضاعة أحد من الناس وقلن لا والله ما نرى الذي أمر به [ص: 455 ]رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم*سهلة بنت سهيل*إلا رخصة من رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم في رضاعة*سالم*وحده لا والله لا يدخل علينا

 

بهذه الرضاعة أحد فعلى هذا كان أزواج النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في رضاعة الكبير

 

 

Source:*Malik's Muwatta(also in Musnad Ahmad)

 

Ofcourse, the actually meaning is that if 'Aaisha would love for children to enter upon her*after they grow up, so that they would for example sit with her and learn from her the Sunnah of the Prophet, she would ask her sister or sister's daughters to suckle them*so that they can enter upon her*after they growing up. The meaning is as following (the underlined arabic part isn't part of the athar, I have wrote it to clarify what she actually meant):*

 

 

"فيمن كانت تحب ان يدخل عليها(اي:*بعد ان كبروا)*من الرجال"

 

 

 

It means that 'Aaisha, if would love for a Radee'after growing up and becoming a man, to enter upon her, she would ask her sisters's daughters or sisters to suckle them so that after they become grown up, they are allowed to enter upon her. The hadeeth does not indicated in any shape or form (only in sick Rafidhi brains) that she would ask her sister to suckle grown man that she (Aisha) loved to see.

 

 

Proof:

 

 

The proof for this is the following athar:

 

 

و حَدَّثَنِي عَنْ مَالِك عَنْ نَافِعٍ أَنَّ سَالِمَ بْنَ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ بْنِ عُمَرَ أَخْبَرَهُ أَنَّ عَائِشَةَ أُمَّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ

 

أَرْسَلَتْ بِهِ وَهُوَ يَرْضَعُ إِلَى أُخْتِهَا أُمِّ كُلْثُومٍ بِنْتِ أَبِي بَكْرٍ الصِّدِّيقِ فَقَالَتْ

 

أَرْضِعِيهِ عَشْرَ رَضَعَاتٍ حَتَّى يَدْخُلَ عَلَيَّ

 

(موطأ مالك رواية يحيى الليثي*»*كِتَاب الرَّضَاعِ*»*بَابُ رَضَاعَةِ الصَّغِيرِ)

 

 

'Aaisha sent Saalim ibn 'Abdillaah Ibn Omar and tells to her sister Umm Kulthuum to suckle him 10 rada'aat*"so he can enter upon me, as Aisha said. How can she say: "Suckle him 10 rada'aat so he can enter upon me"*while Saalim ibn 'Abdillaah was a*radee' (under two years old) anyway?!*Like we all know, A radee' (suckling baby/child) is allowed to enter upon strange women in ANY SITATION. So this proves for any person with intellect that she meant: "So he can enter upon meafter he grows up", because a radee' already is allowed to enter upon women and therefore, she can't meant with "so he can enter upon me" while Saalim was a child, rather to make sure once he is GROWN he can enter upon her (and this is allowed according to ALL schools of thought, even according to the Rafidhi religion)."

 

We could do this copy and paste thing all day. Why not admit your not fit to talk about any diin other than your addoonimo diin. Go back to bootlicking the cadaans.

[Allyourbase]

DoctorKenney;990975 wrote:

Yes walaal, he's a corrupt person and what he's saying is attempting to discredit Aisha.

 

Anyways, here's a Sahih Hadith which proves him wrong:

 

 

 

Notice the underlined part.

Before the age of weaning ie. Before the age of 2 years old

. The argument has now devolved to us running in circles, and it's reached a point where AllYourBase is throwing accusations against Islam and we're supposed to sit here, defending it from his misconceptions.

 

Allyoubase is more than welcome to do his own research, in a different forum, which addresses these sort of topics. There are a million Islamic forums on the net, and he can pick whichever one he chooses next time he wants to bring forth an accusation against Islam.

 

Dude, stop running. Lets talk facts:

 

1- The prophet ordered this practice in this Sahih Hadith:

 

' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed.

 

Sahih Muslim

 

Book 008, Number 3424

 

 

Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon himy, saying to 'A'isha: By Allah, I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage, whereupon she ('A'isha) said: Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She (Sahla bint Suhail) said: He has a beard. But he (again) said: Suckle him, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said: (I did that) and, by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hadhaifa.

 

Book 008, Number 3428

 

 

So basically the prophet ordered this poor lady to suckle a man with a beard! Do you refute any of that DrKenny?

 

2- Aisha who was the wife of the prophet of Islam (arguably his favourite after Khadija), adopted this bizarre ritual, and would order her sisters to suckle any stranger man she wanted to have access to her quarters.

 

A'isha umm al-muminin took that as a precedent for whatever men she wanted to be able to come to see her. She ordered her sister, Umm Kulthum bint Abi Bakr as-Siddiq and the daughters of her brother to give milk to whichever men she wanted to be able to come in to see her. The rest of the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, refused to let anyone come in to them by such nursing. They said, 'No! By Allah! We think that what the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered Sahla bint Suhayl to do was only an indulgence concerning the nursing of Salim alone. No! By Allah! No one will come in upon us by such nursing!'

 

Muwatta' Malik

Book 30, Number 30.2.12

 

 

Do you doubt this ones authenticity?

 

Checkmate sxb.

[magicbird]

Allyourbase;990939 wrote:

Not to dwell on this point but hold on a second..

 

 

Are you telling me that your 'mother', Um Al Mu'miniin Aisha the wife of your Prophet is performing an act that is bizarre? That she is indeed incorrect?

 

I say this because Aisha, wife of the Prophet of Islam did indeed practice this 'bizarre' ritual, whereby if she wanted a man who is a stranger to her to come to her quarters and become 'Mahram' she would order her sisters and their daughters to allow those men to suckle on them.

 

This is from Malik's Muwata':

 

 

 

Its really bizarre and evidently so by the refusal of the prophet's other wives to practice this.

Allyourbase;990978 wrote:

Dude, stop running. Lets talk facts:

 

1- The prophet ordered this practice in this Sahih Hadith:

 

' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said:

Suckle him

. She said:

How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man

? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)

smiled

and said:

I already know that he is a young man

. 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)

laughed

.

 

Sahih Muslim

 

Book 008, Number 3424

 

 

Zainab daughter of Abu Salama reported: I heard Umm Salama, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon himy, saying to 'A'isha: By Allah,

I do not like to be seen by a young boy who has passed the period of fosterage

, whereupon she ('A'isha) said: Why is it so? Sahla daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger, I swear by Allah that I see in the face of Abu Hudhaifa (the signs of disgust) on account of entering of Salim (in the house), whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said:

Suckle him

. She (Sahla bint Suhail) said:

He has a beard

. But he (again) said:

Suckle him

, and it would remove what is there (expression of disgust) on the face of Abu Hudhaifa. She said: (

I did that

) and, by Allah, I did not see (any sign of disgust) on the face of Abu Hadhaifa.

 

Book 008, Number 3428

 

 

So basically the prophet ordered this poor lady to suckle a man with a beard! Do you refute any of that DrKenny?

 

2- Aisha who was the wife of the prophet of Islam (arguably his favourite after Khadija), adopted this bizarre ritual, and would order her sisters to suckle any stranger man she wanted to have access to her quarters.

 

A'isha umm al-muminin took that as a precedent for whatever men she wanted to be able to come to see her

. She

ordered

her sister, Umm Kulthum bint Abi Bakr as-Siddiq and the daughters of her brother

to give milk to whichever men she wanted to be able to come in to see her

. The rest of the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace,

refused

to let anyone come in to them by such nursing. They said, 'No! By Allah! We think that what the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, ordered Sahla bint Suhayl to do was only an indulgence concerning the nursing of Salim alone. No! By Allah! No one will come in upon us by such nursing!'

 

Muwatta' Malik

Book 30, Number 30.2.12

 

 

Do you doubt this ones authenticity?

 

Checkmate sxb.

Check above you.

[DoctorKenney]

Allyourbase, that specific ruling was abrogated towards the end of the Prophet's life, and the later ruling still stands. It is forbidden in Islam to breastfeed a grown adult. That's what the entire argument is based on. And that incident was a special incident meant for only an isolated issue, as the rulings of Islam stipulated that adoption was no longer valid in Islam. This was at a time when the Shariah was still not complete, and rulings were still being sent down by Allah. And the Sahabi was uncomfortable being in the presence of a woman who was no longer legally his Mahram, so this was the solution. And furthermore, the breast-milk was put inside a cup and he drank from the cup, he never drank directly from her breasts.

 

Here you go:

 

Praise be to Allaah.

 

Before answering this question, we must explain some important points about the rulings (ahkaam) concerning breastfeeding (al-radaa’).

 

1. Breastfeeding is proven in the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and by ijmaa’ (scholarly consensus).

 

Qur’aan: Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “… your foster mothers who gave you suck, your foster milk suckling sisters…” [al-Nisa’ 4:23].

 

Sunnah: Ibn ‘Abbaas reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “What is forbidden by radaa’ (suckling or breastfeeding) is the same as what is forbidden by nasab (lineage).” (Agreed upon; al-Bukhaari, Muslim, 1444).

 

Ijmaa’: The scholars agree that the effect of radaa’ (breastfeeding) prohibits marriage and creates the relationship of mahram, and permits seeing and being alone (with the people to whom one is related through radaa’).

 

2. For breastfeeding to have the effect of transmitting its benefits from the nursing woman to the child suckled, it must meet certain conditions, which are:

 

The breastfeeding must happen within the first two years of the child’s life, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “The mothers shall give suck to their children for two whole years, (that is) for those (parents) who desire to complete the term of suckling…” [al-Baqarah 2:233].

 

The number of breastfeedings must total the known five feeds, in which the child eats his fill as if eating and drinking. If the child leaves the breast for a reason, such as to take a breath or to switch from one breast to the other, this (i.e., each separate time the child latches on) is not counted as one breastfeeding. This is the opinion of al-Shaafa’i, and the opinion favoured by Ibn al-Qayyim. The definition of rad’ah (one breastfeeding) is when the child sucks at the breast and drinks until the milk enters his stomach, then he leaves the breast of his own accord. The evidence for the number five (number of breastfeedings) is the report from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) who said: “There was in the Qur’aan [an aayah which stipulated that] ten [was the number of] breastfeedings which created the relationship of mahram, then this was abrogated [by another aayah which stipulated] five. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died and [the aayah which stipulated five] was still being recited as part of the Qur’aan.” (Reported by Muslim, 1452). In other words, the abrogation came so late that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) died, some people had not yet heard that this aayah had been abrogated, but when they heard that it had been abrogated, they stopped reciting it, and agreed that it should not be recited, although the ruling mentioned in the aayah remained in effect. This is an abrogation of the recitation without abrogation of the ruling, which is one type of abrogation. Having understood this, breastfeeding after the first two years does not create any relationship of mahram. This is the opinion of the majority of scholars, and among the references which they quote is the aayah cited above, along with the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Nothing of breastfeeding creates the relationship of mahram except what fills the stomach to bursting point, before (the age of) weaning.” Reported by al-Tirmidhi. (No. 1152), who said: This is a hasan saheeh hadeeth. The application of this according to the scholars among the Companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and others is that breastfeeding does not create the relationship of mahram except when it is within the first two years, and anything after the first two whole years does not create any such relationship.”

 

There are some other reports from the Sahaabah, such as that narrated from Abu ‘Atiyah al-Waadi’i, who said: “A man came to Ibn Mas’ood and said: ‘My wife was with me and her breasts were full of milk (she was engorged). I began to suck it and spit it out. Then I came to Abu Moosa.’ He (Ibn Mas’ood) said, ‘What did you tell him?’ So he (Abu Moosa) told him what he had told him. Then Ibn Mas’ood stood up, took the man’s hand (and said), ‘Do you think this is an infant? Breastfeeding is what produces the growth of flesh and blood.’ Abu Moosa said: ‘Do not ask me anything when this scholar is among you.’” (Reported by ‘Abd al-Razzaaq in al-Musannaf, 7/463, no. 13895).

 

In al-Muwatta’ (2/603), Maalik reported that Ibn ‘Umar said: “There is no breastfeeding except for the one who is breastfed in infancy; there is no breastfeeding for one who is grown up.” Its isnaad is saheeh.

 

Maalik also reported in al-Muwatta’ that ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Dinar said: “A man came to ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar when I was with him in the court-house, asking him about breastfeeding one who is grown up. ‘Abd-Allaah ibn ‘Umar said: ‘A man came to ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab and said, “I have a slave-girl with whom I used to have sexual relations, and my wife went to her and gave her her milk, then when I went to her, she said, ‘Stop, by Allaah I have given her my milk.’” ‘Umar said, “Punish her (your wife), and (continue to) go to your slave-girl, for (the ruling on) breastfeeding only applies to breastfeeding of infants.”’” Its isnaad is saheeh.

 

From this is it clear that drinking one’s wife’s milk has no effect and does not create the relationship of mahram. Ibn Qudaamah said in al-Mughni (9/201): “One of the conditions of breastfeeding creating the relationship of mahram is that it should be within the first two years. This is the opinion of most of the scholars. Something like this was narrated from ‘Umar, ‘Ali, Ibn ‘Umar, Ibn Mas’ood, Ibn ‘Abbaas, Abu Hurayrah and the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), apart from ‘Aa’ishah. It was also the opinion of al-Shi’bi, Ibn Shubrumah, al-Oozaa’i, al-Shaafa’i, Ishaaq, Abu Yoosuf, Muhammad, and Abu Thawr, and was narrated in one report from Maalik.

 

On the basis of the above, drinking one’s wife’s milk has no effect, but it is better to avoid it.

 

Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen was asked about this matter, and he replied: Breastfeeding a grown-up has no effect, because the breastfeeding which has an effect (of creating the relationship of mahram) is that which consists of five feedings or more within the first two years, before weaning. On this basis, if it happened that someone breastfed from his wife or drank her milk, he does not become her son. Fataawa Islamiyah, 3/338.

 

And Allaah knows best.

And furthermore:

 

Sahih Bukhari Book 48 Hadith 815

 

Once the Prophet came to me while a man was in my house. He said, "O 'Aisha! Who is this (man)?" I replied, "My foster brothers" He said, "O 'Aisha! Be sure about your foster brothers, as fostership

is only valid if it takes place in the suckling period (before two years of age)

."

[Allyourbase]

This is all clear evidence as to why Richard Dawkins would mock the 'Muslim World'. You have young, intelligent, educated [i hope] boys and girls in the 21st century who take their moral and spiritual codes from people who would utter and perform the most bizarre or acts. The Hadiths I have posted above are Sahih, so you can not do anything there, you can not doubt their authenticity, you can not say I am spreading lies upon Allah and his Messenger. You simply cant!

 

However you can and will continue to lie to yourself, to try and refute what I am saying because you are seeking rewards, loot, aka hasanaat which in turn will allow you entrance to your Jannah and in turn an all the virgin buffet that you will deflower at will.. so sad

[Allyourbase]

You did not answer me DrKenny, are the Hadiths that I have posted Sahih or not?

 

Simple question requires simple answers.

 

And please dont copy and paste your argument, if I wanted I could copy and paste my arguments from the myriad websites that have anti islamic essays, I only get sources and put them here for authentication.

 

Now answer my question please. I do not care if it was one incident or a ruling, this falls to everyones own sense of judgment as seen in how Aisha thought its a general ruling and the other wives did not.

 

Lets stick to the basics, are these Sahih or not?