Richard Dawking mocked the Muslim World's intellectual inferiority

[DoctorKenney]

Tallaabo;972754 wrote:

Mr Dawkins has a point. Just compare the number of Jews who won this most prestigious of awards with that of the Muslim recipients. Population wise the Muslims are well over 1.5 billion strong whereas the Jews number about only 15 million or about the same size as the Somali population. Ala ceeb badanaa

There are over 1.4 billion Chinese people living in this world, how many Chinese won the Nobel Prize?

 

There are 1.1 billion Indians living, how many Indians won the Nobel Prize?

 

There are over 1 billion Africans, how many of them won the Nobel Prize?

 

What a ridiculous comparison. You obviously can't see for yourself that the vast majority of Nobel PrizeWinners come from Wealthy White Western nations, where they have advanced scientific methods and an advanced society.

 

The vast majority of the world is severely lacking when it comes to Nobel Prizes, as only a few Chinese people won the Prize as well, despite the fact that there are MANY more Chinese people than there are Jews.

 

Anyone who repeats such a sentence is trying to look for a reason--any reason--to mock the Muslim Ummah.

[DoctorKenney]

This man would really have us believe that there are ONLY 2 groups of people in this world: Muslims and Jews

 

As if everyone else doesn't exist. How many Nobel Prizes came out of the Congo? Or Zambia? Or Burkina Faso?

 

When a country advances, and living standards rise as a result of economic development, then of course there's gonna be more Nobel Prizes coming out of that country....as the society is well-educated and they have the scientific tools necessary to make new discoveries.

 

It isn't difficult to understand, but expecting Dawkins and his Atheist clowns to understand this is pointless. Sometimes common sense isn't so common.

[Allyourbase]

DoctorKenney;973209 wrote:

There are over 1.4 billion Chinese people living in this world, how many Chinese won the Nobel Prize?

 

There are 1.1 billion Indians living, how many Indians won the Nobel Prize?

 

There are over 1 billion Africans, how many of them won the Nobel Prize?

 

What a ridiculous comparison. You obviously can't see for yourself that the

vast majority

of Nobel PrizeWinners come from Wealthy White Western nations, where they have advanced scientific methods and an advanced society.

 

The vast majority of the world is severely lacking when it comes to Nobel Prizes, as only a few Chinese people won the Prize as well, despite the fact that there are MANY more Chinese people than there are Jews.

 

Anyone who repeats such a sentence is trying to look for a reason--any reason--to mock the Muslim Ummah.

List of Chinese (a single country) Science Nobel Laureates:

 

1. Tsung-Dao Lee

2. Chen Ning Yang

3. Samuel C. C. Ting

4. Yuan T. Lee

5. Steven Chu

6. Daniel C. Tsui

7. Gao Xingjian

8. Roger Y. Tsien

9. Charles K. Kao

 

List of Indian (a single country) Science Nobel Laureates:

 

1. Ronald Ross

2. C.V. Raman

3. Har Gobind Khorana

4. Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar

5. Amartya Sen

6. Venkatraman Ramakrishnan

 

List of Muslim (60 states!) Science Nobel Laureates:

 

1. Ahmed Zewail

 

[Hobbesian_Brute]

Intellectual achievements are not limited just to Nobel prizes, but include fields medals awards, patents applications, pisa education rankings etc... not to mention economic growth, industrialization, development and many other indicators. i don't think the intellectual poverty of the 57 Islamic nations is just down to religion alone, others factors also play a big role.

[DoctorKenney]

Allyourbase;973215 wrote:

List of Chinese (a single country) Science Nobel Laureates:

 

1. Tsung-Dao Lee

2. Chen Ning Yang

3. Samuel C. C. Ting

4. Yuan T. Lee

5. Steven Chu

6. Daniel C. Tsui

7. Gao Xingjian

8. Roger Y. Tsien

9. Charles K. Kao

 

List of Indian (a single country) Science Nobel Laureates:

 

1. Ronald Ross

2. C.V. Raman

3. Har Gobind Khorana

4. Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar

5. Amartya Sen

6. Venkatraman Ramakrishnan

 

List of Muslim (60 states!) Science Nobel Laureates:

 

1.

Ahmed Zewail

 

A completely misleading comparison. First of all. there are about 4 or 5 Muslim Nobel Laureates.

 

Second of all, your brackets suggesting Muslims control (60 states) yet China is only a "single country" is idiotic, dishonest, and you know it.

 

There are 1.4 BILLION CHINESE. 1.4 BILLION. That's almost the same number of Muslims in this world. Why only a handful of Chinese Nobel Laureates? Are the Chinese dumb too? India has only SIX, and they have 1.1 billion people. Are the Indians dumb as well?

 

Are you ready to state that the Jews are much smarter and better than the Chinese because they won more Nobel Prizes than the Chinese? What about the Africans? How many Black Africans won the Nobel Prize, and compare it to how many Jews won that prize.

 

We both know very well that the Jews are disproportionately represented in the list of winners for this Prize, but to compare this to Muslim Nobel PrizeWinners and then suggest Muslims are the only group of people who aren't making a contribution is completely dishonest.

 

You can do better than that.

[GaraadMon]

It's a bit shallow to claim this is a problem with Muslims in particular. You'll notice that neighbouring populations to many of the Muslim majority countries aren't exactly doing too well either. I think a better discussion could be had by debating why certain cultures produce more intellectuals to begin with, particularly in the case of Ashkenazi Jews and Persians. Even in the hayday of the Abbasid empire, almost all of the greatests mathematical/scientific achievements were concentrated among Perisian Muslims rather than Arabs and if consider the number of published and cited research papers, that divide still exists in the present day.

[DoctorKenney]

I would really like these Islamophobes to start claiming that the Chinese are underachievers and dumb because the Jews, a group of only 13 million people, outnumber them in Nobel Prizes.

 

But they won't admit that. Because they know their argument is shallow from the get-go.

 

I'd also like to know how many of the "Jewish" Nobel Laureates are really Atheists. Most of the "Jewish" scientists, are in-fact outright Atheists, such as Albert Einstein and others. Would it be fair to describe them as "Jewish", then compare them to Muslims, even though these scientists don't even believe in God?

 

So is this a religion comparison (Muslims and Jews), or is this an ethnic comparison? And if this was an ethnic comparison, then it's useless to discuss because Muslims aren't exactly an ethnicity.

 

This entire thing is a misleading argument all-around. I assumed Tallabo would be smarter than that, but I was wrong

[Allyourbase]

DoctorKenney;973242 wrote:

A completely misleading comparison. First of all. there are about 4 or 5 Muslim Nobel Laureates.

 

Second of all, your brackets suggesting Muslims control (60 states) yet China is only a "single country" is idiotic, dishonest, and you know it.

 

There are 1.4 BILLION CHINESE. 1.4 BILLION. That's almost the same number of Muslims in this world. Why only a handful of Chinese Nobel Laureates? Are the Chinese dumb too? India has only SIX, and they have 1.1 billion people. Are the Indians dumb as well?

 

Are you ready to state that the Jews are much smarter and better than the Chinese because they won more Nobel Prizes than the Chinese? What about the Africans? How many Black Africans won the Nobel Prize, and compare it to how many Jews won that prize.

 

We both know very well that the Jews are disproportionately represented in the list of winners for this Prize, but to compare this to Muslim Nobel PrizeWinners and then suggest Muslims are the only group of people who aren't making a contribution is completely dishonest.

 

You can do better than that.

I only listed the example of China and India that you have brought up. We are not discussing scientific contribution by magnitude of population here, because Jews number much less than Muslim, the Chinese and Indians. However, their contribution to the advancement of our world is quite impressive. Now both the Chinese and Indians are represented in most indicators of human development, but Muslims are sadly absent.

 

Regarding your claim that Jews are disproportionately represented in winners of the Nobel Prize, please bring forth the scientists you think undeservedly won the prize, a list of them would be nice

 

First of all. there are about 4 or 5 Muslim Nobel Laureates.

The discussion here pretains to scientific achievements so I have listed those who won a science prize.

 

 

But anyways, well done, you have the same number of Nobel Laureates as Belarus

[Allyourbase]

DoctorKenney;973270 wrote:

I would really like these Islamophobes to start claiming that the Chinese are underachievers and dumb because the Jews, a group of only 13 million people, outnumber them in Nobel Prizes.

 

But they won't admit that. Because they know their argument is shallow from the get-go.

 

I'd also like to know how many of the "Jewish" Nobel Laureates are really Atheists. Most of the "Jewish" scientists, are in-fact outright Atheists, such as Albert Einstein and others. Would it be fair to describe them as "Jewish", then compare them to Muslims, even though these scientists don't even believe in God?

 

So is this a religion comparison (Muslims and Jews), or is this an ethnic comparison? And if this was an ethnic comparison, then it's useless to discuss because Muslims aren't exactly an ethnicity.

 

This entire thing is a misleading argument all-around. I assumed Tallabo would be smarter than that, but I was wrong

Its funny you say this because Albert Einstein considered himself to be a Jew yet you come along and for the sake of conveniency remove him into the atheist column, a term he had never used.

 

On the other hand you amalgamate the likes of Abdus Salam regardless of the fact that he is a follower of Ahmadiyya, a sect seen by majority of muslims as a non muslim, again for the advancement of your argument.

 

The topic of discussion here is the contribution of Muslims to modern science (or lack of) as signified by the number of Nobel Prize winners, in relation of that of Jews, Christians, Atheists etc or Belarus (ha!).

 

You could even take it along (the very interesting) route suggested by BlackFlash:

 

It's a bit shallow to claim this is a problem with Muslims in particular. You'll notice that neighbouring populations to many of the Muslim majority countries aren't exactly doing too well either. I think a better discussion could be had by debating why certain cultures produce more intellectuals to begin with, particularly in the case of Ashkenazi Jews and Persians. Even in the hayday of the Abbasid empire, almost all of the greatests mathematical/scientific achievements were concentrated among Perisian Muslims rather than Arabs and if consider the number of published and cited research papers, that divide still exists in the present day.

[DoctorKenney]

The Chinese, Indians, and Black African Nobel Laureates number FAR LESS than the Jewish Nobel Laureates....even if you combine their numbers.

 

Either way, the Jews being high-achievers is something that's already well-known, and you could easily use that point to bash South Americans, Africans, Indians, Chinese and others. Using that exclusively to bash Muslims shows you're not too bright, or you're just making these points out of pure malice.

[DoctorKenney]

Allyourbase;973275 wrote:

Its funny you say this because Albert Einstein considered himself to be a Jew yet you come along and for the sake of conveniency remove him into the atheist column, a term he had never used.

 

On the other hand you amalgamate the likes of Abdus Salam regardless of the fact that he is a follower of Ahmadiyya, a sect seen by majority of muslims as a non muslim, again for the advancement of your argument.

 

The topic of discussion here is the contribution of Muslims to modern science (or lack of) as signified by the number of Nobel Prize winners, in relation of that of Jews, Christians, Atheists etc or Belarus (ha!).

 

You could even take it along (the very interesting) route suggested by BlackFlash:

Regardless of whether Einstein used that term or not, he clearly never believed in a God, he's said it before in his writings and interviews. And you completely avoid the point of whether this is an ethnic comparison or a religious comparison. Because if this was a religious comparison, then including Einstein and other self-proclaimed Atheists into the Jewish column is entirely misleading. Yes, Einstein comes from a Jewish background, but that's irrelevant since you're doing a religious comparison.

 

Including an Ahmadiyyah Kaffir as a "Muslim" is also misleading, and I never argued otherwise.

[Tallaabo]

What about the very rich Gulf Arabs who can easily afford to fund scientific education and research? What about the millions of Muslims in the Western world who have access to the best education and research facilities? The difference between the Chinese and the Muslims is that, the Chinese have started a serious campaign to catch up with the West in terms of scientific and technological achievement. Just within the last decade or so the number of published research and patents filed by Chinese born scholars increased many fold and is set to continue in that trajectory. Also nowadays in every top rated university or laboratory in any country you will not fail to find a Chinese scholar or student doing cutting edge science or mathematics.

[Haatu]

Tallaabo;973830 wrote:

What about the very rich Gulf Arabs who can easily afford to fund scientific education and research? What about the millions of Muslims in the Western world who have access to the best education and research facilities? The difference between the Chinese and the Muslims is that, the Chinese have started a serious campaign to catch up with the West in terms of scientific and technological achievement. Just within the last decade or so the number of published research and patents filed by Chinese born scholars increased many fold and is set to continue in that trajectory. Also nowadays in every top rated university or laboratory in any country you will not fail to find a Chinese scholar or student doing cutting edge science or mathematics.

You see that's the difference between these Muslims and the early Muslims. They understood the importance of secular knowledge (obviously after religious knowledge) so one of the first things they did was translate hundreds upon hundreds of greek and roman texts into Arabic to make them accessible. The caliphs then built houses of wisdom and libraries to foster the growth of homeborn knowledge and we all know the results today. Also, you might see some of Muslims and non-muslims nowadays making out as if Islam and secular education is incompatible (excluding obvious kufr like Darwanism) but they fail realise many Islamic scholars of the past were scientific intellectuals.

[D.O.C]

Can someone tell me who furnishes this so called prestigious award in the first place?

[Tallaabo]

D.O.C;974937 wrote:

Can someone tell me who furnishes this so called prestigious award in the first place?

It was set up by the rich Swedish industrialist and investor of dynamite Alfred Nobel over one hundred years ago when he read his obituary in the newspaper Le Monde of France. Apparently the newspaper thought he had died the other day and then published an obituary which shocked him. The article had a title like "father of death died". So Mr Nobel decided to leave behind a good reputation and put his entire wealth into a fund to reward those who contribute to the peace and wellbeing of mankind. Ever since it was awarded by the Swedish and Norwegians to the most deserving individuals(most of the time).