Should Somalia adopt an Islamic Judiciary System?

[kickz]

Another vote for Islamic Sharci. No reason to settle for less, when we have been blessed with perfection.

[Carafaat]

There are hardly any educated and experiwnced lawyers within Somalia. But we do have a significant number of islamic law experts and islamic scholars. It doesnt make sense to copy paste a western legal system that has never worked in Somalia and that Somalis hardly trust.

[Allyourbase]

An antediluvian system of laws that should never ever see the light of day in the 21 century.

 

It doesnt make sense to copy paste an arab legal system that has never worked in Somalia and that Somalis hardly trust.

[Carafaat]

Thats not true. In fact it has worked. We have 6 months of proof of that, 6 months of rule and law, 6 months of justice and 6 months where trust was return in the public. Why it only lasted 6 months? Because the west supported and funded Ethiopia and mercenaries to destroy the existence of such an example.

 

Now, you tell us one single example of how the western justice system has worked for Somalis.

[Alpha Blondy]

Carafaat;973349 wrote:

Thats not true. In fact it has worked.

We have 6 months of proof of that, 6 months of rule and law, 6 months of justice and 6 months where trust was return in the public. Why it only lasted 6 months?

Because the west supported and funded Ethiopia and mercenaries to destroy the existence of such an example.

 

Now, you tell us one single example of how the western justice system has worked for Somalis.

6 months which was almost 6 years ago.

 

playing devil's advocate is not impressing anyone, inaadeero Arafat. ka dhex bax arrimaha Koonfurian-ka :mad:

[Carafaat]

Alpha Blondy;973350 wrote:

6 months which was almost 6 years ago.

 

playing devil's advocate is not impressing anyone, inaadeero Arafat. ka dhex bax arrimaha Koonfurian-ka :mad:

What makes you think I am talking only about Somalia? As if Somaliland has a credible justice system come one inaar. The first thing Kulmiye did was to fire the Riyaale appointed Chief Judge and I am sure the next goverment will bring its own Judges as well. Talking about independent justice.

[Marksman]

Why is the islamic sharia system romanticized? If I am wrong please tell me

 

With Sharia

 

- A man can divorce his wife by only saying ' I divorce you' 3 times.( or "Talig") For the woman it's more difficult

- A woman's testimony is worthy half a man's.

- A woman gets half the inheritance of her male siblings

- Some crimes, such as rapes, will need 4 witnesses seeing the act happen for it to be trialled.

- There are harsh draconian laws against those that do not believe in islam anymore. Apostasy and blasphemy laws

- Women who remarry lose custody of their children.

- Under Sharia law, a girl is eligible for marriage as soon as a girl begins her first period.

 

Overall it's sadistic with its public flogging and stonings etc. Sharia is a nightmare in my opinion and will only invite intolerance and fear of any progression.

 

I see here people only celebrating it, because it has tamed the untameable Somali for a few months. So fear is the weapon?

[Alpha Blondy]

Carafaat;973352 wrote:

What makes you think I am talking only about Somalia?

As if Somaliland has a credible justice system come one inaar. The first thing Kulmiye did was to fire the Riyaale appointed Chief Judge and I am sure the next goverment will bring its own Judges as well. Talking about independent justice.

SL Republic is different, maha?

 

inaar, howshan ka dhex bax baan ku idhi. you little jajuus-judus, yuruubta dheexe liberal and regional-administration-political-gigolo isku xishood. wa iga taalo. :mad:

[DoctorKenney]

Quran 4:135 "O you who have believed, be persistently standing firm in justice, witnesses for Allah , even if it be against yourselves or parents and relatives. Whether one is rich or poor, Allah is more worthy of both. So follow not [personal] inclination, lest you not be just. And if you distort [your testimony] or refuse [to give it], then indeed Allah is ever, with what you do, Acquainted."

 

Shariah Law--if applied correctly--would be perfect for Somalia! In fact it would be perfect for the entire Muslim World. It is a system which combines man's worldly interests with his spiritual interests. It maintains the unity of the family structure as well as providing a comprehensive framework for people in society to deal with each other. Shariah is the Way

[Hobbesian_Brute]

sharia law allows for slavery, would you be Ok with that Dr kenny ?

[Carafaat]

Hobbesian, please provide proper backing, facts and sources to support your empty anti-Islamic statements.

[Hobbesian_Brute]

what proof do you want carafaat ? on which topic ?......

[Hobbesian_Brute]

ok carafaat here you go;

 

"Slavery is a part of Islam... Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam... [Those who argue that slavery has been abolished are] ignorant, not scholars. They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel."

 

Sheikh Saleh Al-Fawzan, member of Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia's highest religious body (2003)

 

Slavery still exists today only in Muslims states like Sudan, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Niger and many others. Sharia law condones this evil practice.

 

"Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave-girls, for these are lawful to them...)..."

 

Quran 23:1

 

"Prophet, We have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave-girls whom God has given you as booty..."

 

Quran 33:50

 

"Mohammed had many male and female slaves. He used to buy and sell them, but he purchased more slaves than he sold, especially after God empowered him by His message, as well as after his immigration from Mecca. He once sold one black slave for two.... His purchases of slaves were more than he sold...."

 

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, Zad al-Ma'ad (1.160)

 

There is the wonderful sharia you so fond of, where is the human dignity ?

[DoctorKenney]

Slavery in Islam only exists in the context of Jihaad and acquiring prisoners of war. So if the Muslim State wages war, then the POW's (prisoners of war) are then acquired as slaves. So Islam reformed society in the sense that there were multiple avenues to acquire slaves in ancient society.... But Islam reduced the avenues to acquire slaves to just one; having Prisoners of War after the battle is finished.

 

Either way, this is a complex issue, but Islam certainly doesn't advocate going to random villages, capturing men, women and children, and then selling their price, which is what the American slave trade was infamous for.

 

This Hadith by the Prophet says this:

 

Sahih Bukhari Book 2 Number 29

 

"Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them."

 

The Quran repeatedly tells the Believers to free their slaves, and it is also commanded to free your slaves if they request it, and write a contract guaranteeing their freedom (Surah 24:33)

 

Either way, this is a detailed issue and is already addressed by numerous English-speaking Islamic scholars (Bilal Phillips) and others. Don't turn this forum into some Islamic Debate forum. Because every single post you made here is related to Islam and criticizing it thereof. Nothing else

[Hobbesian_Brute]

DoctorKenney;973400 wrote:

Slavery in Islam only exists in the context of Jihaad and acquiring prisoners of war. So if the Muslim State wages war, then the POW's (prisoners of war) are then acquired as slaves. So Islam reformed society in the sense that there were multiple

avenues to acquire slaves in ancient society

.... But Islam reduced the avenues to acquire slaves to just one; having Prisoners of War after the battle is finished.

Tell me about those avenues. I don't know of any other way of acquiring slaves, except through warfare -- jihad and raids -- ghazwa.

 

DoctorKenney;973400 wrote:

Either way, this is a complex issue,

but Islam certainly doesn't advocate going to random villages, capturing men, women and children, and then selling their price, which is what the American slave trade was infamous for

.

I don't think its complex at all, slavery is evil, islam should reject it unequivocally for all time. Islam provides an overarching justification -- waging jihad against infidels; where slaves are captured. do you know that Muslims were overwhelmingly responsible for collecting the blacks destined for the Atlantic slave trade from the interiors of Africa and selling them to the Europeans. and that the atlantic slave trade itself pales in comparison to the far more evil and cruel but less infamous African trade perpetrated by the Arabs mainly from East Africa.

Bits and pieces from history indicate that Muslims enslaved over 150 million African people.

 

 

 

DoctorKenney;973400 wrote:

This Hadith by the Prophet says this:

 

Sahih Bukhari Book 2 Number 29

 

"Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them."

 

The Quran repeatedly tells the Believers to free their slaves, and it is also commanded to free your slaves if they request it, and write a contract guaranteeing their freedom (Surah 24:33)

"Muhammad took pains in urging the faithful to free their slaves as a way of expiating their sins. Some Muslim scholars have taken this to mean that his true motive was to bring about a gradual elimination of slavery. Far more persuasive is the argument that by lending the moral authority of Islam to slavery, Muhammad assured its legitimacy. Thus, in lightening the fetter, he riveted it ever more firmly in place."

 

Murray Gordon, Slavery in the Arab World

 

In other wards, Muhammad was sanitizing and legitimizing the practice for all time.

 

DoctorKenney;973400 wrote:

Either way, this is a detailed issue and is already addressed by numerous English-speaking Islamic scholars (Bilal Phillips) and others.

Don't turn this forum into some Islamic Debate forum. Because every single post you made here is related to Islam and criticizing it thereof. Nothing else

Muslims say theirs is the one true religion.What are you scared of then ? i address many other issues on this forum.