Prof Samatar SL unity is a must, Xasan sh has no clue about S/land, aspirations are legit and real

[Gar_maqaate]

^^ " We can authentically argue our case because our deceits blind us to the truth and under the influence of self deception we'll hang ourselves if given enough rope". Ignorance is truly a bliss!. Those "ridiculous suggestions" are the documented testaments of the British regarding the treaty and its legality. But lets not get a minor inconveniences like the truth get on the way, instead we'll accept your unfounded innuendos and insinuations.

[Gar_maqaate]

In that year of independence, 1960, and before the merger, 35 countries recognized Somaliland diplomatically including Egypt, Israel and the five Permanent Members of the Security Council.

Above is another commonly held myth that is consider as a historical fact by Somalilanders.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

They were colonizers Somaliland was bordering not a normal country Ethiopia a country that has never been colonized before the Brits rewarded the Ethiopian Empire where it could. The Ethiopian Emperor Yohannes assisted the brits in the war against the Mahdist.For as they returned the favor, this does not mean their treaties signed with the Somaliland tribes were not legal, it was legal, the Hawd and reserve area was given to the Xabashis, because the Xabashis and the Brits had common strategic interest. remember the Tribes in the hawd and reserve area were the same as the rest of the people of Somaliland they were just ethnic Somalilandish people. By the way signing treaties with the colonial empire was very smart , what would be worse is to be under Xabashi and they were moving and moving. Look at today the English is gone but the xabashi still occupies the hawd and reserve area and the rest of the Somali region. The generations of the late 19 century we salute them.

[Gar_maqaate]

Xaaji Xunjuf;971273 wrote:

this does not mean their treaties signed with the Somaliland tribes were not legal, it was legal, th.

There is really nothing of value in your incoherent rant to move our debate forward. I have provide you with irrefutable evidence that definitively prove that the British did not regard the treaties signed with some of the tribes of Somaliland in 1884/6 as an agreement with a sovereign or part-sovereign entity, which could be recognised in international law. This is not my assertions, this is an established fact. But let's just disable our critical faculties and accept the proposal that the treaties were "legal" and binding. And since

"The Treaties of Protection did not stipulate the transfer of ownership of Somali territory to the protecting states, only obligations to preserve the in- dependence of the protected people. Neither did these treaties provide for the alienation of Somali territory to a third party state. It follows, therefore, that under the fun- damental principles of law "Memo dat quad non habet" so long as the protecting powers had no legal ownership of the Somali territory, they could not transfer a valid title to another state, in this case Ethiopia

Therefore, if the treaty was legally as you claim then the Britain would not have the legal right to award Somali territory to a third party without the knowledge of the Somalis and in violation of the treaty. Yes...

[Tallaabo]

Gar_maqaate;971254 wrote:

Above is another commonly held myth that is consider as a historical fact by Somalilanders.

Myth?? Ok then your rants must the irrefutable facts.

[Gar_maqaate]

The treaties

 

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

 

We, the undersigned Elders of the Gadabursi tribe, are

desirous of entering into an Agreement with the

British Government for the maintenance of our

independence, the preservation of order, and other

good and sufficient reasons.

Now it is hereby agreed and covenanted as follows:-

 

ART. I. The Gababursi tribe do hereby declare that

they are pledged and bound never to cede, sell,

mortgage, or otherwise give for occupation, save to

the British Government, any portion of the territory

presently inhabited by them, or being under their

control.

 

ART. II. All vessels under the British flag shall have

free permission to trade at all ports and places

within the territories of the Gadabursi tribe

 

ART. III. All British subjects residing in or visiting

the territories of the Gadabursi tribe shall enjoy

perfect safety and protection, and shall be entitled

to travel all over the said limits under the

safe-conduct of the Elders of the tribe

............ .

 

In token of the conclusion of this lawful and

honourable bond, Jama Roblay, ........and Major Frederick Mercer Hunter,

Assistant Political Resident at Aden, the former for

themselves, their heirs and successors, and the latter

on behalf of the British Government, do each and all,

in the presence of witnesses, affix their signatures,

marks, and seals, at Zaila, on the 11th day of

December, 1884, corresponding with the 25th Safar.

F. M. Hunter

(the marks of Elders named.)

 

Agreement with the Gadabursi, ZAILA, Dec. 11, 1884 -

 

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

We, the undersigned Elders of the Eesa tribe, are

desirous of entering into an Agreement with the

British Government for the maintenance of our

independence, the preservation of order, and other

good and sufficient reasons.

 

Now it is hereby agreed and covenanted as follows:-

 

ART. I. The Eesa tribe do hereby declare that they are

pledged and bound never to cede, sell, mortgage, or

otherwise give for occupation, save to the British

Government, any portion of the territory presently

inhabited by them, or being under their control.

 

ART. II. All vessels under the British flag shall have

free permission to trade at all ports and places

within the territories of the Eesa tribe

 

ART. III. All British subjects residing in or visiting

the territories of the Eesa tribe shall enjoy perfect

safety and protection, and shall be entitled to travel

all over the said limits under the safe-conduct of the

Elders of the tribe

.......

In token of the conclusion of this lawful and

honourable bond, Ali Geridone, .........and Major Frederick Mercer

Hunter, Assistant Political Resident at Aden, the

former for themselves, their heirs and successors, and

the latter on behalf of the British Government, do

each and all, in the presence of witnesses, affix

their signatures, marks, and seals, at Zaila, on the

31st day of December, 1884, corresponding with the

13th Rabu-al-Awal, 1302

F. M. Hunter

 

Agreement with the Eesa Somal, ZAILA, Dec. 31, 1884 --

 

 

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

We, the undersigned Elders of the Habr Toljaala tribe,

are desirous of entering into an Agreement with the

British Government for the maintenance of our

independence, the preservation of order, and other

good and sufficient reasons.

 

Now it is hereby agreed and covenanted as follows:-

 

ART. I. The Habr Toljaala tribe declare that they are

pledged and bound never to cede, sell, mortgage, or

otherwise give for occupation, save to the British

Government, any portion of the territory presently

inhabited by them, or being under their control.

 

 

ART. II. All vessels under the British flag shall have

free permission to trade at all ports and places

within the territories of the Habr Toljaala, and the

tribe is bound to render assistance to any vessel,

whether British or belonging to any other nation, that

may be wrecked on the above-mentioned shores, and to

protect the crew, the passengers, and cargo of such

vessels, giving speedy intimation to the Resident at

Aden of the circumstances, for which act of friendship

and good-will a suitable reward will be given by the

British Government.

 

ART. III. All British subjects residing in or visiting

the territories of the Habr Toljaala shall enjoy

perfect safety and protection, and shall be entitled

to travel all over the said limits under the

safe-conduct of the Elders of the tribe

 

 

In token of the conclusion of this lawful and

honourable bond, Dirir Shaikh Don, ....[iNSERT THE

NAMES OF THE ELDERS HERE].....;and Major Frederick

Mercer Hunter, Assistant Political Resident, the

former for themselves, their heirs and successors, and

the latter on behalf of the British Government, do

each and all, in the presence of witnesses, affix

their signatures, marks, and seals, at Aden, on the

26th day of December, 1884, corresponding with the 9th

of Rabu-al-Awal, 1302

 

F. M. Hunter

(the marks of Elders named.)

 

Agreement with Habr Toljaala, Aden, December 26,1884

 

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

We, the undersigned Elders of the Habr Gerhajis tribe,

are desirous of entering into an Agreement with the

British Government for the maintenance of our

independence, the preservation of order, and other

good and sufficient reasons.

 

Now it is hereby agreed and covenanted as follows:-

 

ART. I. The Habr Gerhajis tribe do hereby declare that

they are pledged and bound never to cede, sell,

mortgage, or otherwise give for occupation, save to

the British Government, any portion of the territory

presently inhabited by them, or being under their

control.

 

ART. II. All vessels under the British flag shall have

free permission to trade at all ports and places

within the territories of the Habr Gerhajis, and the

tribe is bound to render assistance to any vessel,

whether British or belonging to any other nation, that

may be wrecked on the above-mentioned shores, and to

protect the crew, the passengers, and cargo of such

vessels, giving speedy intimation to the Resident at

Aden of the circumstances, for which act of friendship

and good-will a suitable reward will be given by the

British Government.

 

ART. III. All British subjects residing in or visiting

the territories of the Habra Gerhajis tribe shall

enjoy perfect safety and protection, and shall be

entitled to travel all over the said limits under the

safe-conduct of the Elders of the tribe

 

In token of the conclusion of this lawful and

honourable bond, Ahmed Ali, ........and Major Frederick Mercer

Hunter, Assistant Political Resident at Aden, the

former for themselves, their heirs and successors, and

the latter on behalf of the British Government, do

each and all, in the presence of witnesses, affix

their signatures, marks, and seals, at Aden, on the

13th day of December, 1885, corresponding with the

28th of Rabi-al-Awal, 1302

 

F. M. Hunter

(Signatures of Elders)

Agreement with Habr Gerhajis, Aden, January 13,1885

 

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

 

WHEREAS the garrisons of His Highness the Khedive are

about to be withdrawn from Berbera and Bulhar, and the

Somali Coast generally, we, the undersigned Elders of

the Habr-Awal tribe, are desirous of entering into an

Agreement with the British Government for the

maintenance of our independence, the preservation of

order, and other good and sufficient reasons.

 

Now it is hereby agreed and covenanted as follows:-

 

ART. I. The Habr-Awal tribe do hereby declare that

they are pledged and bound never to cede, sell,

mortgage, or otherwise give for occupation, save to

the British Government, any portion of the territory

presently inhabited by them, or being under their

control.

 

ART. II. All vessels under the British flag shall have

free permission to trade at the ports of Berbera,

Bulhar, and other places in the territories of the

Habr-Awal tribe

 

ART. III. All British subjects residing in or visiting

the territories of the Habr-Awal shall enjoy perfect

safety and protection, and shall be entitled to travel

all over the said limits under the safe-conduct of the

Elders of the tribe

......

 

In token of the conclusion of this lawful and

honourable bond, Abdellah Liban, ........and Major Frederick Mercer

Hunter, the officiating Political Resident of Aden,

the former for themselves, their heirs and successors,

and the latter on behalf of the British Government, do

each and all, in the presence of witnesses, affix

their signatures, marks, and seals, at Berbera, on the

21st day Ramdhan, 1301, corresponding with the 14th

July, 1884

 

F. M. Hunter, Major,

Officiating Political Resident, Aden.

 

 

Agreement with Habr-Awal, Berbera, July 14, 1884

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _______

[Gar_maqaate]

the Warsangalis (British

Protection; Slave Trade; Wrecks: &c.). - January 27,

1886

 

THE British Government and the Elders of the

Warsangali tribe who have signed this Agreement being

desirous of maintaining and strengthening the

relations of peace and friendship existing between

them;

 

The British Government have named and appointed

Major Frederick Mercer Hunter, C.S.I., Political Agent

and Consul for the Somali Coast, to conclude a Treaty

for this purpose.

 

The said Major F. M. Hunter, C.S.I., Political

Agent and Consul for the Somali Coast, and the said

Elders of the Warsangali, have agreed upon and

concluded the following articles:-

 

ART. I. The British government, in compliance with the

wish of the undersigned Elders of the Warsangali,

undertakes to extend to them and to the territories

under their authorities and jurisdiction the gracious

favour and protection of Her Majesty the

Queen-Empress.

 

II. The said Elders of the Warsangali agree and

promise to refrain from entering into any

correspondence, Agreement, or Treaty with any foreign

nation or Power, except with the knowledge and

sanction of Her Majesty's Government.

 

III. The Warsnagali are bound to render assistance to

any vessel, whether British or belonging to any other

nation, that may be wrecked on the shores under their

jurisdiction and control , and to protect the crew,

passengers, and cargo of such vessels, giving speedy

intimation to the Resident at Aden of the

circumstances; for which act of friendship and

good-will a suitable reward will be given by the

British Government.

 

IV. The Traffic in slaves throughout the territories

of the Warsangali shall cease for ever, and the

Commander of any of Her Majesty's vessels, or any

other British officer duly authorized, shall have the

power of requiring the surrender of any slave, and of

supporting the demand by force of arms by land and

sea.

 

V. The British Government shall have the power to

appoint an Agent or Agents to reside in the

territories of the Warsangali, and every such Agent

shall be treated with respect and consideration, and

be entitled to have for this protection such guard as

the British Government deem sufficient.

 

VI. The Warsangali hereby engage to assist all British

officers in the execution of such duties as may be

assigned to them, and further to act upon their advice

in matters relating to the administration of justice,

the development of the resources of the country, the

interests of commerce, or in any other matter in

relation to peace , order, and good government, and

the general progress of civilization.

 

VII. This Treaty to come into operation from the 27th

day of January, 1886, on which date it was signed at

Bunder Gori by the Undermentioned.

 

F. M. Hunter

These treaties are nothing more than contractual agreements, enslaving the Somalis. Some of the treaties drastically differ from another seemingly creating different protectates.

[Gar_maqaate]

Tallaabo;971296 wrote:

Myth?? Ok then your rants must the irrefutable facts.

Are saying somaliland was recognised by 35 countries in 1960, that included the 5 permanent members of the security council?

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

You have a crazy way of reasoning so if the Brits hand over the hawd and reserve area to Ethiopia does that mean they did not have treaties with Somaliland tribes. If that was the case Kenya is no entity either remember Jubbaland was part of Kenya or British east Africa before they gave it to the Italians. You are comparing colonial treaties between Somaliland tribes with bilateral relations between 2 states.

[Gar_maqaate]

Dude stop conflating the issue. Kenya is state because It submitted an application to the Secretary-General and a letter formally stating that it accepted the obligations under the Charter.

The Security Council considers the application. It received affirmative votes from the members of the Security Council. The recommendation was presented to the General Assembly for consideration and the Assembly voted for the admission of a new State.

Membership becomes effective the date the resolution for admission was adopted. This is why kenya is a state (entity) not because it used be a British colony.So Xaaji, being a British colony is no a perquisite for statehood there are procedures. Therefore, the claim for existence of an independent state called Somaliland which united with Somalia in 1960 is unfounded myth. There was never a state called Somaliland.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Well the only difference is Kenya is recognized by the wider world and Somaliland is not but they have the same history which defines them as a state entity. where the Brits took part of their land and gave it to the italian colonialists the same they gave the hawd and reserve area to the Ethiopians. It doesn't make kenya less of an illegitimate entity, because of what the brits did. All African nations are the same in their history except for Liberia Ethiopia who were never colonized.And Somaliland after gaining Independence joined with another nation called Somalia. If there was never a state than how come there was an act of union, why was there the union law.

[Taleexi]

Professor-ku wuu ka waalay reer tolkay. Xaajiyow creditibilitigaaga wax kala har.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Taleexi Professorka maxaad ku nacday nimanki Muqdisho bu ka so quustay in anaay marnaba Somaliweyn u dacaad ahayn bu ogaada marka maxa u diidaya inu dadkisa u tago, adiguba taleexi maalin uun baad saaxiga keeni.

[Taleexi]

Aah, ha iga qoslin. Professor-ka fikirkiisa guracan baan ka soo horjeedaa balse who am I to charge waa duni waalaye - haddaba afkaad ku ammaantay hadhow ha ku caayin

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Waligay anigu professorka ma cayin xita berigu u ololeyn jiray Koonfurianska waabaan u duceyn jiray, remember anigu dadka reer somaliland eh somalia taga waxba kama sheego whether its Buuba Fawziya Xaaji Godane and others. Taleexi beryahan wabaad soo dhawanaysa hada baad aad tolnimadeeni qireysey, waisu so dhawanay.. Inaynan kala marmayn waligay baan wa oga inshallah mar baynu taleex ku wada afuri doona.