Somali Women

[Reeyo]

Wadani;961139 wrote:

Do women deserve their God given and natural rights such as most of those mentioned above by others? Ofcourse they do. But should the natural order of of things among Somalis be turned on it's head to mimic the athiestic and morally bankrupt feminist social experiment of the West? Hell no, unless we want rampant teen pregnancies, divorce rates above 70%, men reduced to boys due to loss of agency, and professional women in their 30's and 40's looking for marriage without any luck as men refuse to be castrated by masculinized women already well past their prime, who did as they pleased with who ever they pleased during their 20's thanks to sexual liberation. These are just some of the effects of western feminism. So be careful what u people wish for.

 

Reeyo, by equal do u mean there are no physical, mental and emotional differences between men and women? Because that's how I understand the term equal, hence my reservations.

I am a little disappointed at your limited understanding of the topic Wadani and using this tactic to gain what?

 

As for men fearing professional women because they will metaphorically castrate their masculinity- I am afraid I am dumbfound.

 

A lot of you are confusing the issues of social rights and equality to gender roles, especially domestically. As already mentioned there is a natural order and determined gender roles for both genders. No-one is asking that one fills the other's shoes or this be distorted.

 

This topic was a basic open discussion on why Somali culture promotes the inferiority of our girls. It's happens in everyone of our households, and it's not acceptable.

 

This shameful outcry or panic about radical feminism is just disguising a serious problem here. Be men and face it.

[Haatu]

Safferz, if you read my previous posts, you'll understand that I'm all for giving women their god-given rights and treating boys and girls with equality but what I object to the moral decadency of the West which these radicals spearhead (i.e. sexual liberation).

[warsamaale]

sexual liberation ?! what does that mean bal :confused:

[Reeyo]

Lol Warsamaale, rather interesting phrase, I wonder at it meaning to.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

Reeyo;961374 wrote:

I am a little disappointed at your limited understanding of the topic Wadani and using this tactic to gain what?

 

As for men fearing professional women because they will metaphorically castrate their masculinity- I am afraid I am dumbfound.

 

A lot of you are confusing the issues of social rights and equality to gender roles, especially domestically. As already mentioned there is a natural order and determined gender roles for both genders. No-one is asking that one fills the other's shoes or this be distorted.

 

This topic was a basic open discussion on why Somali culture promotes the inferiority of our girls. It's happens in everyone of our households, and it's not acceptable.

 

This shameful outcry or panic about radical feminism is just disguising a serious problem here. Be men and face it.

+1

[Haatu]

You know this isn't going well for me. I know there's a reason why I dislike feminism but I'm struggling to find it

 

(At least I'm telling the truth )

[warsamaale]

what did feminism do to you ? :rolleyes:, bully you ? spill the beans haatu.

[Wadani]

Reeyo;961374 wrote:

I am a little disappointed at your limited understanding of the topic Wadani and using this tactic to gain what?

 

As for men fearing professional women because they will metaphorically castrate their masculinity- I am afraid I am dumbfound.

A lot of you are confusing the issues of social rights and equality to gender roles, especially domestically.

As already mentioned there is a natural order and determined gender roles for both genders. No-one is asking that one fills the other's shoes or this be distorted.

This topic was a basic open discussion on why Somali culture promotes the inferiority of our girls. It's happens in everyone of our households, and it's not acceptable.

 

This shameful outcry or panic about radical feminism is just disguising a serious problem here. Be men and face it.

Men don't fear professional women because they are professionals. They fear (ur term not mine. I prefer unattracted to) what many of them have become. Women who want to literally and figuratively wear the pants.

 

But I see that ur understanding of feminism and mine are radically different. Ofcourse feminism calls for toppling traditional gender roles on its head. But since u have no problem with the natural order of things then I have zero disagreements with u. Should women get an excellent education? Yes. Should they be able to work and vote? Yes. Should they have equal access to all state services? Yes. Yes to these and to a plethora of other rights...no man in his right mind would deny half the population their rights. We just don't want the horrible excesses of the west in the name of gender equality being exported to Somalia. That's all.

[Chimera]

Wadani;961424 wrote:

Should women get an excellent education? Yes. Should they be able to work and vote? Yes. Should they have equal access to all state services? Yes. Yes to these and to a plethora of other rights...no man in his right mind would deny half the population their rights. We just don't want the horrible excesses of the west in the name of gender equality being exported to Somalia. That's all.

The fact that we have the power to deny them all of that is the issue. Only in a scenario where women can impose the same ideals of what their menfolk should be like, and instead of emulating [ - insert Western/Eastern import - ], then you have a fair case. However, what we have now is us men discussing how women should dress, how they should talk, how they should behave and actually enforcing this through the cloak of society, and traditional gender roles, or fears of what they might become. Yet we adopt any philosophy, culture and dress-code we please, and never ask the opinion of the other 50+ % of this so-called society. When you then say, but I'm perfectly okay with women going to school, eating cake, breathing air, you're being condescending, even if not on purpose

 

That is not equality, its pity. The day we have lost the ability to deny them these rights, is the day those rights are actually owned by them.

[Wadani]

Chimera;961429 wrote:

The fact that we have the power to deny them all of that is the issue. Only in a scenario where women can impose the same ideals of what their menfolk should be like, and instead of emulating [ - insert Western/Eastern import - ], then you have a fair case. However, what we have now is us men discussing how women should dress, how they should talk, how they should behave and actually enforcing this through the cloak of society, and traditional gender roles, or fears of what they might become. Yet we adopt any philosophy, culture and dress-code we please, and never ask the opinion of the other 50+ % of this so-called society. When you then say, but I'm perfectly okay with women going to school, eating cake, breathing air, you're being condescending, even if not on purpose

 

That is not equality, its pity. The day we have lost the ability to deny them these rights, is the day those rights are actually owned by them.

Ur arguing on the premise that men and women are equal and that men aren't the natural leaders of society, so I disagree on that basis.

[Chimera]

Wadani;961432 wrote:

Ur arguing on the premise that men and women are equal and that men aren't the natural leaders of society, so I disagree on that basis.

Put the "natural leaders of society" bit to aside for a moment, I care not for such a discussion. The configuration that makes up Somali society is flawed, and heavily biased towards men, do you agree? If yes, then changing this flaw should not be the cause of alarm, or knee-jerk reactions of imminent "radical feminism". You should give Somali women more credit, the likes of Ayaan are the exception not the rule. We know from prewar Somali women's movements that their efforts have always been extremely understanding and thoughtful of Somali society, culture and history, be it female nationalism, or anti-FGM, they did it in concert with male groups, politicians and societal leaders.

 

Compare this to the various ideologies Somali men dropped on the heads of their women and children, in the last two decades, with no concern to their wishes, or standards of living.

[Wadani]

Chimera;961433 wrote:

Put the "natural leaders of society" bit to aside for a moment, I care not for such a discussion. The configuration that makes up Somali society is flawed, and heavily biased towards men, do you agree? If yes, then changing this flaw should not be the cause of alarm, or knee-jerk reactions of imminent "radical feminism". You should give Somali women more credit, the likes of Ayaan are the exception not the rule.

It's hard to put it aside, as it's central to this discussion. But yes, I do agree that Somali society is biased towards in men in certain ways. And I have no qualms in addressing these issues or 'flaws'.

[Chimera]

Wadani;961435 wrote:

It's hard to put it aside, as it's central to this discussion. But yes, I do agree that Somali society is biased towards in men in certain ways. And I have no qualms in addressing these issues or 'flaws'.

These issues will never be addressed or fixed, if every single time the mention of women's rights is brought up, we put our fingers in our ears and yell "don't want to hear radical feminism", its a disservice to any Somali man with female relatives, or daughters.

[NGONGE]

Marksman;961308 wrote:

NGONGE, why think in extremes? You think this is better than actual choice of attire?

 

 

I think Somali women can decide for themselves. Sometimes I wonder why there's such a high divorce rates among Somalis.

What exteremes? This or naked is all the same to me, saaxib. Women can do whatever they like to do. It really is none of my business.

 

(my joke about topless girls seems to have gone right over your head; check out FEMEN).

[OdaySomali]

I was reading the other day an (unconvincing) argument that said that in Islamic countries social, economic and legal policy should always be designed so as to better the position of men and boys, whose standing and position in society, it was argued, should be improved and advanced before that of women. The reasoning was that this should be done because men are or would be the 'leaders' of society and the 'heads of households' and they need to be enabled and empowered - not undermined - in fulfilling those roles. The implementation of that sort of thinking would mean:

 

- Boys and men should be prioritised for receiving education, health care, job creation and government assistance.

 

- NGO's who help women were particularly critisised... they should help men first, it was argued.

 

etc.

 

What do folks here make of that?