Clan the Politics of Somalia

[Safferz]

Ace of Spadez;954936 wrote:

Safferz, you enjoy defending the indefensible. I understand being a lawyer gives you the urge to play the devils advocate but in this case no amount of education from Yale or Harvard can save you. The question is not whether or not Che or a citizen of Somalia can be referred to as a Somali. The issue is, once it has been established Somalis can organize themselves into political parties and transcend clan as best they can, is it legitimate to pose the question can Somalis do this? I believe the answer is a resounding no; unless of course Somalis from Somaliland are not Somali but something other. To suggest otherwise is fatuous.

I'm not a lawyer, I'm a historian And the historical and political fact is that yes, a Somali is both one who is from Somalia, and one who belongs to the ethnic group known as the Somali. I say this as someone who is also not from "Somalia" in the contemporary reality of a multiplicity of Somali states and political formations across the Horn of Africa. You have no argument here.

[Che -Guevara]

Safferz.I like when I deal with landers on one one in real life. They are calmer and much more honest, and funnier. And their views on Somaliland and its politics is far more in line with reality. There's one thing about all Somalis, iskuma ceeb qariyaan hence we are no mystery to each other!

 

In fairness to Ace and others, nobody likes to be called Soomaalidiid.His attempt here is a way to neutralize that term:D

 

I have seen Haabsade in video calling a someone from Khaatamu I think Somalilandiid, it didn't come out naturally, his first natural answer was Soomaalidiid lol.

 

Ace. You have managed to hijack your own thread. Your attempt at preaching or was it boasting has failed miserably. Be nice and call us Somalis, so we can go on talking about what's wrong with Somalia:D

[Ace of Spadez]

Safferz, you're answering a different question. Try again. Here is the question. Remember, context is paramount here.

 

The issue is, once it has been established Somalis can organize themselves into political parties and transcend clan as best they can such as the case in Somaliland, is it legitimate to pose the question can Somalis do this? In that frame work, to pose such a question would indicate Somaliland citizens are something other than Somali, thereby giving the term Somali solely to those from Somalia

[Ace of Spadez]

Che, you can't hate what you are. Nobody has exclusive right to the name Somali. In fact if we delve a little further, Somaliland is 100 % Somali, where as Somalia has other ethnicities. LOL If anyone should lay claim to it, it should be those from Somaliland.

[Che -Guevara]

Ace. See that's your problem, I didn't say I have exclusive right to anything, in fact you can refer yourself to as Somali but the fact remains Somalia is Somali and vice verse, that doesn't mean others are not. You want a political divorce to reshape Somali identity in order to validate your decision, not gonna happen mate.

 

Maybe, next you will accuse Americans of misappropriating America from the Americas.

 

The 100% thing would be true if you drop the phantom Arab Sheikh story that says you came to our shores many centuries ago and married a local gal:D

[Ace of Spadez]

Che, actually you were arguing precisely that. LOL In any event, the same question applies. Maybe you two didn't even bother listening to the audio.

 

It is absurd to pose the question whether Somalis can organize themselves into political parties, when in fact Somaliland has, which has Somali inhabitants, unless of course they are not Somali but Somalidiid in your eyes. LOL

 

Now that you have back peddled we can go back to Somalia and understand yes, the environment is not conducive to multiparty politics at the moment as Abukar Arman rightly noted, but it should be what people should work towards. That is the only way that can contain the beast that is has destroyed Somalia's chances, year in and year out. I do agree reconciliation is the first step, but what then? How do you share a country if you do not agree on a system that can bring different people under one banner.

[Che -Guevara]

I note this again this, Somalis had organized themselves into political parties before Somaliland. It's not matter if we can, it's matter if we should at the moment when the environment does not lend itself to such endeavor. I even say Puntland should stop flirting with this idea as the proper institutions are not in place and the mentality of the strong man remains potent. We need genuine reconciliation, a good selected leaders, and uninterrupted peace that could help us elevate poverty and ignorance. Any democratization process should be slow and methodical but it needs to be preceded by prolonged stability with robust economy and social development with the right men at the helm.

 

And I hope secessionists understand citizens need jobs and social advancement. Democracy can't satisfy empty stomach and idle body. This will be the test for Somaliland.

[Taleexi]

Ace of Spadez;954922 wrote:

Taleexi, ever since Somaliland liberated the capital of Sool, you have been reduced to smiles. Saxib sidan isu dhaan.

Liberated from who? - Saaxiib for once call spade a spade, your dogmatic clannish admin will either work for every community or will not work for anyone thus, your admin is not an exception.

[Safferz]

Ace of Spadez;954939 wrote:

You're answering a different question. Try again. Here is the question. Remember, context is paramount here.

 

The issue is, once it has been established Somalis can organize themselves into political parties and transcend clan as best they can such as the case in Somaliland, is it legitimate to pose the question can Somalis do this? In that frame work, to pose such a question would indicate Somaliland citizens are something other than Somali, thereby giving the term Somali solely to those from Somalia

I understood your question just fine, I just don't believe you have a point. Somalis are hardly the only ethnic group whose population lies beyond the boundaries of the nation-state (Somalia), as ethnicity and nationality do not always correspond to one another. The demonym of a resident of France is French (French as nationality), but that's not to say French people (French as ethnicity) do not also live in other countries like Switzerland, Belgium, and Canada. But they have other names for their nationalities, like French Canadians. A Somali is a person from Somalia, but there are ethnic Somalis beyond it. You cannot change that.

[warsamaale]

Fighting imaginary straw-men is their forte., who is he trying to fool, political parties kulaha, clan is the bane of the somali peninsula and unless that is solved then fancy western innovations like parties would mean nowt.

[Che -Guevara]

^LOL

[AfricaOwn]

Is one of those discussions that people end of saying at the end.... "we'll agree to disagree" . As long as the people of Somaliland can continue to define their destiny, it doesn't matter what those sitting at the sidelines are talking about.

 

“Your thoughts will become your words. Your words will become your actions. Your actions will become your habits. Your habits will become your character. Your character will define your destiny.”

Gandhi’s words

[warsamaale]

why the LOL che ?

[Che -Guevara]

^I thought your response was humorous yet true.

 

I think Ace doesn't realize the only thing Somalis learn from Somaliland is the institutionalization of tribal homelands. We are now stuck with this land, that land and what have you.

[AfricaOwn]

Apophis;955084 wrote:

As if S/L parties are formed independent of clan. As I understand, all the parties are from one clan in that region. Prove me wrong.

That's not true. I believe you're able to find members from all clan (within Somaliland) in all the parties.