Clan the Politics of Somalia

[Ace of Spadez]

VOA held a lively debate between Professor A. M. Badiyow (Former Presidential Candidate), Professor A. I. Samatar (Former Presidential Candidate), Professor A. Abdirahman (Former Professor of Somalia National University) & Mr. A. Arman (Former Somalia Envoy to USA) on Clan & the Politics of Somalia.

 

http://www.voasomali.com/audio/Audio/287173.html

 

It was interesting to have Prof Badiyow & Ahmed Ismail Samatar to use neighbouring countries of Somalia and Somaliland in particular to suggest a way out of the clan plagued political environment of Somalia by adopting political parties. It was equally fascinating to have Mr. Arman point out that Somalia needs have necessary institutions in place first like those of neighbouring countries including Somaliland before political parties could replace politics based on clan in Somalia.

 

It appears it is slowly sinking in Somalis from Somalia that the political discourse in Somaliland although not perfect is the way forward.

I found it quite interesting that the moderator posed the question can Somalis adopt political parties, after his very own guests highlighted Somaliland is a possible example to follow with regards to a healthier political climate and their experience with multiparty politics. The question should have been rather can Somalis from Somalia as opposed to equating Somalia and all Somalis. Usurping something that is shared, such as our common ethnicity is another glaring example of the delusions our brothers in Somalia suffer from.

[Che -Guevara]

I don't really see why equating all Somalis with Somalia bothers you. Multiparty system is not new to Somalis and will not likely solve Somalia's problems, it will be a long time before we get there. What we lack is genuine reconciliation, acceptance of crimes committed, and some justice.

[Somalia]

Qof isku kaa dejiniya habayaraatee ma jiro. The system of Somaliland is a British one and is struggling to cope within Somaliland today, I could cite tensions in both claimed corners of the secessionist region to do with electoral voting. Somaliland is not fit to be a role model for a pigeon, let alone a nation.

 

Secondly, the party system has failed in Somalia, we had it in the 1960s, and people created parties for political endeavours like it was a stall in a market. In Somaliland today, there was a supposed constitutional limit of the number of parties yet many are forming today based on clan lines, disgruntled that they may not get their piece among the main, just like SYL days.

 

So enough is enough, failed systems do not work, western democracy does not work cause we are not western! We are a clan society, people should face up to it and work with the system.

[Ace of Spadez]

Che, you're missing the point.

 

Politics based on clan will not get you anywhere. This much is agreed upon. The argument is where does Somalia go from here? Shall it enter the 21st century along with Africa and organize itself based on political parties? Should it follow the footsteps of Somaliland, considering it has proven Somalis can make this leap. You see, what is going on in Somaliland is quite different than what was going on in Somalia in the early 60's. Somaliland actually has political parties that are not only for elections but remain after elections and do their job in opposition, as opposed to all joining the winning party (SYL) in the case of Somalia. Also, the number of political parties has been limited to three in order to curtail clan from seeping into the political environment.

 

Secondly, I don't think someone from Saudi Arabia equates Arabs with Saudi Arabia, and tries to retain what is a shared identity only for them. I don't expect you to understand this, since by your very admission you seem to suffer the same delusion as the moderator of the debate. This point is ever more glaring when it has been established that Somalis from Somaliland have been able to rise above clan in their political arena. To ask can Somalis do the same is to suggest Somalis from Somaliland are not Somali. The better question would be to use the word Somalian, or Somalilander to denote nationality.

[Taleexi]

Multiclan parties

[Ace of Spadez]

Taleexi, ever since Somaliland liberated the capital of Sool, you have been reduced to smiles. Saxib sidan isu dhaan.

[Che -Guevara]

It seems your whole argument is to accommodate an agenda that you would like to see materialize, everything from following the 'Somaliland' example of politics,and up to redefining Somali nationality and ethnicity. If you want to call your self a Somalilander, by all means but I am Somali and Somalia is my country.

 

As for politics, Somaliland is run by one family clan, a hardly model for diverse Southern Somalia with competing interests. Somalia needs to find its own system. Democracy might not be in the cards as of yet. Uneducated people with no sense civic responsibility and politics is a bad mix. We need to be realistic!

[Ace of Spadez]

Che-Guevara, yes you are a Somali but you don't own it solely that name is shared and you can't claim it alone.

 

 

Che for you Somaliland is one clan, but those professors will disagree with you as they know the reality. LOL Your smear campaign will not work. Somaliland is a role model for Somalia, just like Kenya, Ghana and South Africa. Democracy can flourish in Somalia, but I do agree it is not there yet today; however, it is the future. To say it will not work is to be short sighted. We have proof in Somaliland.

[Che -Guevara]

To say my views on Somaliland is a smear campaign and your views on Somalia as valid doesn't set the stage for anything.If this will be your line of argument, than my friend you are nothing but hateful secessionist who would like to see the complete eradication of other Somalis, not helpful ain't? so let's be sane mate.

 

As for the second thing, you can't dictate what people call themselves no more than I can dictate what you choose to call yourself. I am Somali and Somalia represents Somalis, if you have issue with that, that's fine but I will not be called Somalian just you could create new nationality and redefine Somali identity.

[Ace of Spadez]

Temper, temper! You sound like toddler throwing a tantrum just because he was told they must share the ball at the day care. The name Somali is shared by all Somalis in the Horn of Africa. It is not exclusively for those from Somalia. Therefore, in a debate in a medium such as the VOA where all Somalis are an audience, when a question is being raised it should be specific to the area it is discussing and not confuse all Somalis. You see it is not only I who would object those from Djibouti, NFD and Somali Galbeed will differ with your misappropriation of the shared Somali ethnicity. Try to be logical, you don't need to showcase share your megalomania. We get it you are from Somalia and therefore predisposed to fraud. LOL Why else would you agree to make a forgery to use the name Somali alone for yourself.

 

Kaftan aside, I truly hope you're not trying to assume the Somali Ethnicity only for Somalis from Somalia. You can't be that daft. Not even you Che.

 

 

As for your attempt to paint Somaliland as one clan country, this has been disproved eons ago. You're still parroting the polemics of the early 90's. I'm sorry you didn't get the memo. You see the enlightened folk such as Dr. Badiyow know the difference. There is hope yet for Somalia. There is a new discourse and attitude from Somalia regarding Somaliland and we welcome it. The common man will follow in due time, even you Che. LOL

[Che -Guevara]

People and the world perfectly understand one is talking Somalia when you hear the word Somali unless you want to share the honors of being Somali pirate, Somali warlord, Somali famine or Somali Government. I understand you are attempting to redefine Somali identity but you are going about it the wrong way, never tell someone else what to call themselves, t you can however exert them a little bit to call you what you want to be called, and as Somalis, we have been respectful enough to call Soomaleen or Somalilander. It's matter of common courtesy that doesn't need to be politicized.

 

As for Somaliland, my views on it has been established, we will leave there since neither of us will be convinced otherwise.

[Safferz]

Ace of Spadez;954928 wrote:

The name Somali is shared by all Somalis in the Horn of Africa. It is not exclusively for those from Somalia. Therefore, in a debate in a medium such as the VOA where all Somalis are an audience, when a question is being raised it should be specific to the area it is discussing and not confuse all Somalis.

You see it is not only I who would object those from Djibouti, NFD and Somali Galbeed will differ with your misappropriation of the shared Somali ethnicity.

It's a historical and political fact that Somali is the demonym for a resident of Somalia. It's both a nationality and an ethnicity that can be broadly applied to all ethnic Somalis inhabiting the Horn of Africa. I'm not sure why you are disputing this or pretending that Che's "misappropriation" is responsible for the demonym. Please don't pretend that there is anyone else but you arguing this position either or taking issue with the term Somali as a descriptor for a person from Somalia, it is a fallacious argument.

[Che -Guevara]

Ain't politics a b!tch dheh:)

 

Is it an accident it's just a secessionist complaining this matter, yet to see a person from Jabouti, NFD and Somaligalbeed mourning about the interchangeability of the words Somali and Somalia.

[Safferz]

Che -Guevara;954934 wrote:

Ain't politics a b!tch dheh:)

 

Is it an accident it's just secessionists complaining this matter, yet to see a person from Jabouti, NFD and Somaligalbeed mourning about the interchangeability of the words Somali and Somalia.

There are a number of arguments I've heard from the 'landers on SOL that I have NEVER heard spoken in real life, including from my own hardcore Somaliland nationalist family members, because that level of reduction and absurdity only exists on the internet.

[Ace of Spadez]

Safferz, you enjoy defending the indefensible. I understand being a lawyer gives you the urge to play the devils advocate but in this case no amount of education from Yale or Harvard can save you. The question is not whether or not Che or a citizen of Somalia can be referred to as a Somali. The issue is, once it has been established Somalis can organize themselves into political parties and transcend clan as best they can, is it legitimate to pose the question can Somalis do this? I believe the answer is a resounding no; unless of course Somalis from Somaliland are not Somali but something other. To suggest otherwise is fatuous.