Vietnam

[GaraadMon]

An interest fact that sets Vietnam apart from the other SE Asian nations (Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, The Philippines etc.), is that their industries aren't dominated by ethnic Chinese entrepreneurs. I think their grassroots economic growth would serve as an important case study for future planners in Somalia.

[Chimera]

I agree, a great example, Vietnam was in a terrible state of war in the 70s, reconstructed in the 80s and flourished in the 90s/00s. If we cut the degenerate petty stuff today and get to developing, the current 2010s could be our reconstruction period, and the 20s/30s the decades we flourish, because we have several times more resources and arable land per capita than they have, so the impact of economic reforms and lobbying will have a far greater effect on the population of Somalia.

 

The way Vietnam is taking jobs from its much bigger neighbour is incredible. Vietnam is the only Asian country nobody bullies, not China, not the US.

[Alpha Blondy]

^

 

 

Adams the Younger,

 

inaar, you're the ONLY dhaqtar u tagaan inuu 'prescription' uu qoro meeshey dhibaatadu ay kataagan tahay . halka ka sii waad, ma garatey?

[warsamaale]

Improbable, the Somali stock does not have the wherewithal nor the the acumen to achieve what Vietnam did. if Somalia can feed itself, is it peace, sovereignty secure then that would be equal to what Vietnam has achieved.

[Taleexi]

Warsamaale: I concur.

[Chimera]

warsamaale;954884 wrote:

Improbable, the Somali stock does not have the wherewithal nor the the acumen to achieve what Vietnam did. if Somalia can feed itself, is it peace, sovereignty secure then that would be equal to what Vietnam has achieved.

I used Vietnam because its hardly Japan, and their economic reforms can be applied to Somali economics. The rest of your post is just self-underestimation, which you're entitled to, but which has little truth to it. There was a time when Somalia was peaceful, and self-sufficient, and Vietnam was at war and starving.

 

The future isn't static.

[warsamaale]

Chimera, firstly, the Vietnamese market socialist system of big state corporations and cheap export manufacturing is hardly the model to emulate, even if we could. Check this report about Vietnam:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-09/vietnam-s-star-is-dimming.html

I also think its fanciful that a feckless and lazy people like us could achieve anything close to what Vietnam has achieved. The Bell curve and IQ Studies are real. People in temperate climes have an edge over their tropical counterparts. Farmers are smarter and have better work ethic than nomads. Different religions also imbue different outlooks and values to countries, obviously if your religion forbids modern banking as we know it, then you simply have no chance of catching up. There are a lot of variables and and you can't copy and paste something as complex as economic system.

[Chimera]

warsamaale;955190 wrote:

Chimera, firstly, the Vietnamese market socialist system of big state corporations and cheap export manufacturing is hardly the model to emulate, even if we could. Check this report about Vietnam:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-09/vietnam-s-star-is-dimming.html

The report says the economic model for Vietnam is dated because it has to adapt to the new economic level its finds itself in as a middle income country due to the Doi Moi reforms i.e it has to upgrade those reforms. Somalia and most of Africa is not on that level yet, hence that model is very much still applicable to our situation.

 

I also think its fanciful that a feckless and lazy people like us could achieve anything close to what Vietnam has achieved.

Somalia had a successful national airline when Vietnam didn't. Somalia had a lively tourist sector, when Vietnam didn't. Somalia was self-sufficient, when Vietnam wasn't. Somalia enjoyed domestic peace when Vietnam was in a civil war. Somalia maintained prestigious festivals and international tournaments, when Vietnam was a no-go zone.

 

If we applied your logic, once upon a time the same could have been said of the Vietnamese in comparison to us.

 

The Bell curve and IQ Studies are real.

Rubbish, maybe you have an IQ of 65, but I certainly don't.

 

People in temperate climes have an edge over their tropical counterparts.

Vietnam is a tropical country, einstein.

 

Farmers are smarter and have better work ethic than nomads. Different religions also imbue different outlooks and values to countries, obviously if your religion forbids modern banking as we know it, then you simply have no chance of catching up. There are a lot of variables and and you can't copy and paste something as complex as economic system.

You're making a lot unsubstantiated claims, you better back them up. Start with the farmers vs nomads statement, provide a source. Secondly, in Somalia nothing suggests religion will play a role in the economy outside of the obvious principles of no trade in alcohol and pork. Thirdly, the Islamic Banking sector actually grew bigger during the global recession when the established Western banks were rescued by taxpayer's money.

[warsamaale]

Chimera;955200 wrote:

The report says the economic model for Vietnam is dated because it has to adapt to the new economic level its finds itself in as a middle income country due to the Doi Moi reforms i.e it has to upgrade those reforms. Somalia and most of Africa is not on that level yet, hence that model is very much still applicable to our situation.

What I want is a fully deregulated, laissez faire,free market system where the government gets out of the way and does not choose winners and losers, with a few caveats of course, we don't want a dated socialist system that is inefficient and unaccountable.

 

 

 

Chimera;955200 wrote:

Somalia had a successful national airline when Vietnam didn't. Somalia had a lively tourist sector, when Vietnam didn't. Somalia was self-sufficient, when Vietnam wasn't. Somalia enjoyed domestic peace when Vietnam was in a civil war. Somalia maintained prestigious festivals and international tournaments, when Vietnam was a no-go zone.

 

If we applied your logic, once upon a time the same could have been said of the Vietnamese in comparison to us.

I agree with you that we might have had a head start on them in some sectors, but remember even Ghana was at one time ahead of Korea, so don't read much into it. water will find its own level.

 

Chimera;955200 wrote:

Rubbish, maybe you have an IQ of 65, but I certainly don't.

Let's be civil please.

 

 

 

Chimera;955200 wrote:

Vietnam is a tropical country, einstein.

All Mongoloids or more politely N.E Asians, originally evolved in temperate, cold climes thousand of years FYI, hence the light skin. i was alluding to that.

 

 

 

Chimera;955200 wrote:

You're making a lot unsubstantiated claims, you better back them up. Start with the farmers vs nomads statement, provide a source. Secondly, in Somalia nothing suggests religion will play a role in the economy outside of the obvious principles of no trade in alcohol and pork. Thirdly, the Islamic Banking sector actually grew bigger during the global recession when the established Western banks were rescued by taxpayer's money.

I will write about this when i have more time.

[Chimera]

warsamaale;955216 wrote:

What I want is a fully deregulated, laissez faire,free market system where the government gets out of the way and does not choose winners and losers, with a few caveats of course, we don't want a dated socialist system that is inefficient and unaccountable.

It worked for them, and precisely because it worked after a brutal war, important lessons can be drawn from that example. Secondly the Somali government definitely has to play a significant role in regulating the currency, the form of FDI that is allowed, and practice a form of resource nationalism. We are not early Switzerland or Sweden that were allowed to develop without the clear-cut exploitation of its resources at the expense of its people, no we are in Africa, where such practices are the norm.

 

I agree with you that we might have had a head start on them in some sectors, but remember even Ghana was at one time ahead of Korea, so don't read much into it. water will find its own level.

Has nothing to do with my reply, or your previous one, your missing the point that Somalia can easily be where Vietnam is today if it succeeds in establishing nationwide stability, and maintains this for at least a few decades. The Somalia of the past did this, hence it was ahead, the Somalia of today doesn't, hence its behind.

 

Let's be civil please.

Using discredited IQ lingo in a economic debate can be considered uncivil, when we know the figures used are ridiculous, and non-applicable. In-fact this so-called source your depending on based its IQ figures for East Africa entirely on the Beta-Israeli of 70s Ethiopia. A group traditionally isolated, and with little education to boot is hardly a good representative for 150 million people, 25 million of which being Somali.

 

All Mongoloids or more politely N.E Asians, originally evolved in temperate, cold climes thousand of years FYI, hence the light skin. i was alluding to that.

Yet, they are as degenerate in conventional and civil-wars as the rest of human kind, including Africa. Whatever point you're attempting to make, just give it up, its not working.

 

I will write about this when i have more time.

I hold you to that.

[Mario B]

Vietnam exports more light manufacturing goods than the whole of sub-Saharan Africa.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/global-development/poverty-matters/2012/oct/04/africa-economic-growth-not-accelerated-urbanisation?intcmp=122

[warsamaale]

including south africa ??, the rainbow nation has a strong manufacturing base.

[Mario B]

warsamaale;956213 wrote:

including south africa ??, the rainbow nation has a strong manufacturing base.

Yep, including the 'mighty' BRICS member, South Africa.