SOL: Where priggish goat-skinners parade as political pundits

[N.O.R.F]

Chimera, the young Mike Tyson knocking out sluggish heavy weights

 

Well done!

[Abtigiis]

Waryaa Norf Yusuf,

 

The young Mike Tyson, Chimera, has puffed and huffed and raised dust and dung like a teaser bull, all to come down to our conclusion that the only way forward is compromise. I think with that he accepted that Ahmed Madoobe is a reality, not a clown like Barre who could be wished away. So, which clip are you watching? We don't see a knock out here!

[N.O.R.F]

^When a young Ronaldhino bamboozled old man Seaman in the WC 2002 qtr final they said it was a freak goal

 

His line of argument has been good in defending the SFG. You're still standing (just) but others fell in round one

[xiinfaniin]

Chimera;953128 wrote:

Compromise

;

A settlement of differences in which

each side

makes concessions

.

 

..and I would even say those spearheading the Kismayo conference and the leadership they elected has accepted the legitimacy of Mogadishu leadership, they invited them to take a lead of the conference. They still say the national leadership has a role in Jubbaland. What they will not compromise on is the constitutional rights the provincial charter affords them.

 

The argument from Mogadishu has been that this whole gathering is illegal and any outcome from it will not be recognized by the federal government.

 

A reasonable compromise should be along the lines of 1) SFG recognizing the legitimacy of Jubbaland state and its leadership, 2) Jubbaland leadership cooperating with SFG's security plan, and eventually working toward integrating its militia in the national army.

 

I am sure Madoobe will not find difficulty doing #2 --he already said as much. Will Hassan and his advisers come to the obvious conclusion and accept Jubbaland as a federal state? Or will they continue to polarize, filling complaints to Kenya & Ethiopia, IGA, and IC ?

[Cambuulo iyo bun]

To the Mike Tysons and Alis, tone it down wax yar for us simpletons.

[Mario B]

Chimera;953128 wrote:

Compromise

;

A settlement of differences in which

each side

makes concessions

.

 

Haye, I'm dreaming.

We need to take this into account here, when a Somali says let's compromise it means grant him/her what they desire/wish, and then we will move on.

[Chimera]

Abtigiis;953157 wrote:

Isn't this the central argument I have been advancing through the course of this thread? Maxaad ii daalinaysay kolkaa?

Lmao, go back to my first post sxb, I agreed with you from the start but had to defend that same political opinion from being heckled, and after that was forced to defend the SFG from blatant political bias, otherwise there is no disagreement here, and my original intention was to welcome you back and do a drive-by post, nothing more nothing less.

 

@Xiin - When has Madoobe and his team ever visited the capital of Somalia? The Federal government has send several delegations, even a high-ranking one in the form of the Prime-minister, but nothing similar has come from the other side, despite invitations from Mogadishu. However Madoobe and his team have visited Nairobi on numerous occassions. Now if they were a seccessionist group like Somaliland, I understand that they would prefer foreign capitals over the national one, but Jubbaland is supposed to be a federal state of Somalia, yet its leaders can't even muster the courage to visit their own capital.

 

There is no way the President could place him under house-arrest without facing a major backlash, so please don't entertain that train of thought.

[SayidSomal]

Compromise is a dirty word to most, equal to surrender and retreat - one must change the meaning of the word in this first instance.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

^^ Somalis have never compromised

General Siyad bare versus USC and SNM

General caydiid versus Cali mahdi zerosum game

General Moorgen versus Colonel Barre hiiraale

Cabdilahi Yusuf versus the islamic courts union

Sheikh sharif versus Amiir Godane

Colonel barre hiiraale versus Sheikh Axmed madoobe

Hassan sheikh versus Amiir Godane

 

Somalis have never compromised what makes people think they will now

Ma Somali cusub ba dhalatay tallow.

[NGONGE]

Chimera;953510 wrote:

Lmao, go back to my first post sxb, I agreed with you from the start but had to defend that same political opinion from being heckled, and after that was forced to defend the SFG from blatant political bias, otherwise there is no disagreement here, and my original intention was to welcome you back and do a drive-by post, nothing more nothing less.

 

thought.

Horta lets sort out the heckling bit once and for all Chimera. This is a politics discussion and you should expect to be heckled whenever you choose to dip a toe into such discussions. You have a tedious habit of posting LISTS and hardly any argument, saaxib. When you get picked up on it (or any throw-away comments such as: this is the right government) you throw a hissy fit about being heckled and what not.

 

As for agreement. I am truly lost with you. When I said to you that none of the international "progress" mattered unless the government sorts out internal disputes, YOU disagreed with me. When A&T said it, you agreed with him. Naga daa dee.

[Chimera]

NGONGE;953534 wrote:

Horta lets sort out the heckling bit once and for all Chimera. This is a politics discussion and you should expect to be heckled whenever you choose to dip a toe into such discussions.

You're right, its a red-herring from those whose argument is too weak to stand on its own, hence the use of the old "dreamer" card, even when its utterly unapplicable.

 

You have a tedious habit of posting

LISTS

and hardly any argument, saaxib. When you get picked up on it (or any throw-away comments such as: this is the right government)

I let facts do the arguing for me, which constitutes a debate, and that's the difference between you and me.

 

you throw a hissy fit about being heckled and what not.

You have never seen me throw a hissy fit, trust me its messy. In here I just exposed your weak tactic with regards to me.

 

As for agreement. I am truly lost with you.

Of course you are, if you paid more attention to the writing, instead of the one writing it, you would be in the loop.

 

When I said to you that none of the international "progress" mattered unless the government sorts out internal disputes, YOU disagreed with me. When A&T said it, you agreed with him. Naga daa dee.

This is what I mean, your focus on Chimera is muddling your ability to read, because otherwise you would know my "agreement" with Abtigiis is on the issue of compromise, but not your position that the international lobbying is unimportant. To me they are equal, that is the big difference and they aren't mutually exclusive positions to held on my part from a political standpoint

[NGONGE]

^^ Oh now I am obsessed with you? Paranoid much, saaxib.

 

This is what I mean, your focus on Chimera is muddling your ability to read, because otherwise you would know my "agreement" with Abtigiis is on the issue of compromise, but not your position that the international lobbying is unimportant.

To me they are equal, that is the big difference and they aren't mutually exclusive positions to held on my part from a political standpoint

Really?

 

 

 

A&T says:

 

Third, my point was that without security and national healing, any progress be it

economic or diplomatic

is prone to reversals and

is not sustainable.

You reply:

 

 

Absolutely!

Muddling my ability to read you say?

 

All I see from your are daydreams, LISTS and the odd mention here and there of bygone famous leaders. War either jump in with both feet or stay out.

 

 

p.s.

 

Xiin is proud of his crystal ball, A&T boasts about being "bila saaxiib" and Maaddeey's "xamaasad" is there for all to see. Not one of of them or any of the people that post in here ever came back complaining about being "heckled". Naga daa dee and don't take things personal warya.

[xiinfaniin]

Chimera;953510 wrote:

Lmao, go back to my first post sxb, I agreed with you from the start but had to defend that same political opinion from being heckled, and after that was forced to defend the SFG from blatant political bias, otherwise there is no disagreement here, and my original intention was to welcome you back and do a drive-by post, nothing more nothing less.

 

@Xiin - When has Madoobe and his team ever visited the capital of Somalia? The Federal government has send several delegations, even a high-ranking one in the form of the Prime-minister, but nothing similar has come from the other side, despite invitations from Mogadishu. However Madoobe and his team have visited Nairobi on numerous occassions. Now if they were a seccessionist group like Somaliland, I understand that they would prefer foreign capitals over the national one, but Jubbaland is supposed to be a federal state of Somalia, yet its leaders can't even muster the courage to visit their own capital.

 

There is no way the President could place him under house-arrest without facing a major backlash, so please don't entertain that train of thought.

Chimera, if you have been following this Jubbaland story , Ahmed Madoobe and his team sent a high caliber men like Professor Gandi to Mogadishu to 1) talk to the government about this effort and 2) invite them to participate and play their role .

 

Watch Professor Gaandi himself telling the world what happened to him and to his team when they got to Mogadishu.

 

http://www.allidamaale.com/article.php?id=2551

 

The thing is Hassan and his team resolved at the get go to refuse the idea of Jubbaland for political reasons. Ahmed Madoobe and his team, on the other hand, repeatedly say that they recognize government's role. But if the government does not recognize their (Ahmed & his team's) effort there is nothing to talk about and go to Mogadishu to discuss.

 

As for the prime minister's trip to Kismayo , do you know what his agenda was ? The prime minister proposed three things to Ahmed Madoobe and his men: 1) remain in the leadership of Kismayo, not Jubbaland, for six months 2) stop the conference and disband the 400 delegates, 3) and let the government organize a reconciliation conference in a time and place of her choosing.

 

The counter proposal was, 1) no , we cannot remain in the leadership of this city as an appointed leaders, 2) we cannot stop the conference , a lot of effort went into bringing all these delegates together from various regions, and 3) the government is welcome to come and lead the conference as long the objective is to establish a Jubbaland federal state because that is what the people want.

 

As to why Kenya & IGAD is involved, I believe that is obvious , Kenya has an understandable security interest in these regions, IGAD has a clear political role in Somalia that is not unique to Kismayo. One can believe conspiracy theories about Kenya stealing Somali land or maritime space , but the reality is Somalia is Somalia, no one in today's world can steal land

[Chimera]

NGONGE;953557 wrote:

Really?

 

A&T says:

Third, my point was that without security and national healing, any progress be it economic or diplomatic is prone to reversals and is not sustainable.

You reply:

Absolutely!

Muddling my ability to read you say?

Where is the contradiction? Security and national healing without a proper international presence is just as unsustainable. The case of a grass-roots movement like the ICU is a good example. They controlled more land than either Madoobe or Hassan Sheikh, and restored stability in the South, yet they're history today.

 

Security and national healing comes through economic and diplomatic progress. The former is the fruit of the latter.

 

All I see from your are daydreams,

LISTS

and the odd mention here and there of bygone famous leaders.

Xiin and Abtigiis provide me with insights to the situation, NGONGE provides a useless psycho-analysis.

 

p.s.

 

Xiin is proud of his crystal ball, A&T boasts about being "bila saaxiib" and Maaddeey's "xamaasad" is there for all to see. Not one of of them or any of the people that post in here ever came back complaining about being "heckled". Naga daa dee and don't take things personal warya.

You confirm its a red-herring then, that's all I wanted to get out of you sxb.

 

No worries.

[Chimera]

xiinfaniin;953560 wrote:

Chimera, if you have been following this Jubbaland story , Ahmed Madoobe and his team sent a high caliber men like Professor Gandi to Mogadishu to 1) talk to the government about this effort and 2) invite them to participate and play their role .

 

Watch Professor Gaandi himself telling teh world what happened to him and to his team when they got to Mogadishu.

 

http://www.allidamaale.com/article.php?id=2551

 

The thing is Hassan and his team resolved at the get go to refuse the idea of Jubbaland for political reasons. Ahmed Madoobe and his repeatedly say that they recognize government's role. But if the government does not recognize their effort there is nothing to talk about and go to Mogadishu to discuss.

 

As for the prime minister's trip to Kismayo , do you know what his agenda was ? The prime minister proposed three things to Ahmed Madoobe and his men: 1) remain in the leadership of Kismayo, not Jubbaland, for six months 2) stop the conference and disband the 400 delegates, 3) and let the government organize a reconciliation conference in a time and place of her choosing.

 

The counter proposal was, 1) no , we cannot remain in the leadership of this city as an appointed leaders, 2) we cannot stop the conference , a lot of effort went into bringing all these delegates together from various regions, and 3) the government is welcome to come and lead the conference as long the objective is to establish a Jubbaland federal state because that is what the people want.

 

As to why Kenya & IGAD is involved, I believe that is obvious , Kenya has an understandable security interest in these regions, IGAD has a clear political role in Somalia that is not unique to Kismayo. One can believe conspiracy theories about Kenya stealing Somali land or maritime space , but the reality is Somalia is Somalia, no one in today's world can steal land

I don't think you're telling me the whole story here Xiin. What happened to the status of the Kismayo Port? The charcoal trade and the remaining stash? There were major disagreements on these issues long before the Jubba conference, and Madoobe and his team didn't show political decorum towards the Federal government, in fact the ban was ignored. Would you recognize the efforts by the Ras Kamboni leaders if they disrespected you on a issue like the charcoal trade let alone more important ones on a federal level like how to create a regional state?

 

I might sound biased, (but i'm honest) because I see nothing wrong with the PM's proposals, or anything that is over the top. The areas claimed by Jubbaland are still under the yoke of Al-Shabaab, declaring a state in Kismayo today or tomorrow would not matter, for better or worse, as long as these territories remain under their yoke. I also don't see why getting all these delegates back together 6 months later would be a problem, considering it would be sponsored by the government. How will sacrificing Federal recognition aid the sustainability of the regional state? Is declaring one today instead of 6 months later that much more important than recognition? Unless your privy to info that states the Federal government would appoint a whole new administration after the interim one, because I have read no such thing.

 

As for Kenya and IGAD, anyone that has followed the Somali conflict for even a single day can see their agendas from a distance. IGAD is the extended filthy hand of Ethiopia, and their entire mission is to undermine the Federal government, luckily after decades of throwing Somali leaders around like rag-dolls they have found their match in the Federal government.The issue of the maritime borders is not a conspiracy theory, it is a well-proven subject. Kenya never claimed what it's claiming today back when there was a strong Somali navy patrolling those waters, yet they have awarded specific maritime sections legally under Somalia's jurisdiction to multi-nationals in direct violation of the UNCLOS Law of the Sea agreement, and even attempted day-light robbery through a shady memorandum.