SOL: Where priggish goat-skinners parade as political pundits

[Haatu]

An apt description of Somalia's current situation but I have to concur with Ngonge. These are a people that have loyalty only to their sub-clan and that's only at the national level. I'll tell a little story that describes my point. There was a traveler in the vicinity of Wajeer who was on a long journey. He came across a reer with a Wagalla-lot as the head of the family. The man said "Xaaji oon baa i dilayaayee, biya isii!". The old man tuu jeesjeestey whilst putting on mock sympathy claimed that the family had run out of water and were waiting for the girls to bring some back from wartii. The traveler caught up on the act and said "Xaajiyow war baan kuu haayaayee, col baa idiin soo food leh". At this the old man sensed danger heading to his sub-clan and shouted to his wife "Heblaay! Abkeey qareer usoo diyaari!"

 

Abtigiis;952208 wrote:

You may call me a pessimist. But in truth, I am neither a pessimist nor an optimist. I am a pragmatist. For me, the glass is neither half-full nor half-empty, it is twice as big as it needs to be.

This is excellent

[Abtigiis]

Dear Gabbal,

 

I hear you and I am guilty of many things. Obviously, I am not defending myself here for I am sure I have many foibles. So, I will look through the list of the issues you raised on my person and will deal with those I can and will leave those I can’t shed. Can I count on you doing a bit of introspection and really questioning yourself if hate and clan ego does not motivate you? It may be true that you are an impeccable nationalist we misunderstood, we don’t live with you. We only judge the positions you take in this forum and the last few months were painful to watch.

 

On the Kismaayo issue, people have taken two positions: one group claims to oppose it based on principle, the principle being that the process is foreign-driven and flawed. The other group supports it arguing the process is legitimate and consultative enough. Within both groups, you have people who are sincere and some who are mischievous. It is hard to tell who is sincere and who is using principles to push a sinister agenda. Xinnfanin belongs to one group; Oba Hiloowle belongs to the other. You do not belong to both these groups. What is incontestable is that you have shown lots of ill-will and hate for a particular clan, a clan which you could not resist to badmouth even when you were defending yourself against the charge that you are motivated by clan interest. That level of hate is not normal.

 

(1) It is false to ascribe the Jubbaland issue to Kenya. Kenya may be messing up, Kenya may be doing bad things, but the clans who want this administration will still want the regional administration even if Kenya doesn’t desire it. This is one of the mischiefs I see in your arguments. You twist the facts because acknowledging it defeats your verity. The current geopolitics may be favouring a particular clan to the detriment of the interests of the other clans. That cannot be gainsaid. But to claim that the favoured clan is there simply because Kenya wished it and will disappear if it doesn’t is not true. You peddle that lie with impish abandon. Can you clan chase away the favoured clan if Kenya withdraws? Probably yes. But does that mean that will be the end of the story? Maybe not! So, don’t bring down the bigger historical claim and counter-claims over Kismaayo to the Kenyan invasion alone!

 

(2) In the morning, you imply that you are ready to support the Jubbaland process if it is to lead to particular outcome. In the afternoon, when a different outcome is projected, you reject it. This is what makes you unique and what given the impression that your support or rejection has nothing to do with principle.

 

(3) You are not open-minded about the solution. For instance, it seems you would prefer if war starts in Kismaayo today rather than if a compromise is reached, if that comprise in any way includes a deal that keeps Ahmed Madoobe or a member of his clan in power. It seems you think it is the end of the world if your community does not take the helm in Kismaayo. You must disabuse yourself of this fanaticism. Somalia does not disappear because a particular political settlement in a one town is unjust – assuming it is unjust. There are lots of injustices in the country, but justice is not the exclusive problem of Kismaayo alone nor the priority right now. Pacifying the country and winning the war against Alshabab is the priority. You prefer Alshabab’s revival instead of seeing Ahmed Madoobe ruling Kismaayo. This is abnormal, because Ahmed Madoobe is saying he recognizes the government, but Alshabab doesn’t want to see the government you support. So, how can you support the enemy of the government you purport to like and support? It is this conditional support that scares me about you.

 

There are many things that can be said. Let us just hope I will reflect on the deficiencies you highlighted and you will look at those I raised about you. To the extent each of us finds things to correct and we shed some bad traits and thoughts and we embrace new positive values, this confrontation would be useful.

 

Ngonge,

 

If the driver is zig-zagging the steering and crushing already quarrelling passengers against each other, the first thing to be done is to stop the car and bring on a driver that can steady the car. That is the immediate solution. The durable solution though is to resolve the conflict between the passengers once they are firmly seated in their seats but still not talking to each other.

 

It may be unfair to focus on Gabbal alone when we have all shown clannish tendencies at one time or another, but I believe he is the worst offender and he is too serious about this clan thing. That is my perception. I don't focus on Oodweyne, and the SL contingent because I know their needlessly solicitous fixation on Kismaayo is to them only part of the larger "Ictiraaf" scheme. Nothing more, nothing less. The Ictiraaf can only come if the south continues to implode, that is the logic. So, whatever ignites fire in the south is to be supported and cheered.

[Carafaat]

Abtigiis,

 

Saxiib, welcome back. You seem to ignore the elephant in the room here, which is Kenya. Every foreign intervention in Somalia from the American and UN peacekeepers mission in 1993, to the Ethiopian army invasion of Mogadishu in 2006 led to backlashes. Hasan Sheick did not ride on Kenyan tanks.did nor invite the Kenyan army in to Somalia, in fact the Somali goverment opposed the Kenyan invasion. So why would you blame Hasan Sheick for any backlashes against the Kenyan presence in Kismayo, why would you blame Hassan Sheick for instability in Kismayo that is occupied by Kenyan forces, why would you blame Hasan Sheick if Kenya's plans for proxy state lead to failure?

[xabad]

Discuss what issues ? clan and cantarbaqash, coz that is being discussed here and am above that. i will repeat nothing good will ever come out of an Islamist, if that angers you, so be it.

[Chimera]

NGONGE;952217 wrote:

 

Now putting Chimera's daydreams aside for now

NGONGE, still using the "day-dreaming" card to dismiss me eh? Here is my old unanswered reply to you:

 

Chimera;930033 wrote:

NGONGE, big bro, the difference between you and me is that if we were in a room somewhere in Somalia with a single pregnant mother expecting a boy. You would keep reminding her that he is the son of the man that used to abuse her, the same man that abandoned her. You would remind the young mother that the same blood would run through that little boy's vain. You would remind her of his clan-lineage and why the little boy most likely would end up a militiaman or a pirate, and that she should accept that destiny, because to you "clan is everything". In the process you would give her examples of the civil-war and showcase pictures of degenerate warlords as role-models.

 

I on the other hand would inform her of all the potential positions her son could attain in life if she were to support him. I would tell her that there is absolutely no limit to what her son could achieve if she raised him in the right environment, with proper care and attention, be it a doctor or Boeing pilot, an architect or a Karate champion. I would highlight that each man has his own soul, and that the sins of the father aren't inherited by the son. I would give her a myriad of examples showcasing successful Somalis to whom clan is unnecessary, and who have adopted more admirable/profitable and less destructive societal systems to advance their own lives and that of those around them.

 

Your stance is a lazy one, it lacks creativity and ingenuity, for that you need dreams, some attainable others not. However, we both know which of the two positions is more destructive to the newborn boy, You would have the young mother accept the terrible future you painted for her son, which in turn becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, because the mother after your speech lost all hope and simply did not bother to educate him, or to care for him, or to fight for his future, or to show him love because nobody wants to love a militiaman in the making, right?

 

I give her honey sweet hope and candy rich dreams. That's what a young mother wants to hear, that her son could be the President of Somalia one day and help her countrymen rise from their current pathetic existence, that he could fly for Somali Airlines one day, that he could be the head of East Africa's biggest Children's Hospital one day, that he could be the most sought after architect/designer in the Somali peninsula for new constructions one day. My position is what will benefit the toddler, and give him a fighting chance in a world ruined by older generations.

 

Superimpose this upon the whole of Somalia, and one can see which of the two positions is very destructive to the future generations and which of the two is more productive. Your "clan is everything" mantra should also be edited into "clan is necessary". The latter I will conceed, in a poverty stricken country like Somalia clan remains necessary, but this does not have to be the future reality. This degenerate societal system is barely 800 years old, and most clans can't abtiris back beyond the 16th century, most of it BS. I bet if I had a time-machine and inserted Big Bird in one of these genealogies the current clan-masses would eat it hook, line and sinker.

 

We were Somalis before the clans, and we will be Somalis after the clans. Its an extremely weak system when you peel away the bravado, for it cannot withstand the pressure of a strong state, or a strong movement. The problem in the case of Somalia is that these states and movements came with degenerate view-points and individuals of their own that failed to achieve success or maintain success in clan-neutralizing societal pillars such as education, military, religion and economy. This is why clan remains necessary in Somalia, but it wasn't necessary to the thousands of Somali school children that traveled across Somalia to teach nomads, from different clans than their own, how to read and write. It wasn't necessary to the thousands of Somali soldiers that were a hair away from permanently obliterating the Ethiopian empire, it wasn't necessary to the hundreds of thousands of Somalis from across the peninsula that invested and settled in the Somali metropolis of Mogadishu.

 

Rahima let you off easy, but we both know that the group which was the most powerful political and military force to rise from Somalia since the collapse of the central government was neither clan-based, nor dislodged by clan-based states. It took external powers to thwart their attempt at ruling Somalia. In this scenario, the group lack the visionary principles that guided Ataturk or the Ayyatollahs and the rest is history. Yet their rise also showcased the utter weakness of the Somali clan system in the face of a united transclan opposition.

 

"Clan is necessary", but only to certain factions in Somali society is this applicable, not to the thousands of Somali doctors, nurses, teachers that care for and teach hundreds of thousands Somali patients and students on an annual basis without asking for their lineage....clan is unnecessary. To the multi-million dollar Somali companies such as Hormuud and Dahabshiil employing tens of thousands of people and with offices all across the peninsula....clan is unnecessary.

 

Around 40-50% of the Somali population remains nomadic, and to further highlight your "clan is everything" mantra is a lazy way of stereotyping a complex problem, you would categorize these nomads as a large pool of clannists, because in your non-fluffy world, clan is everything. You would use the various skirmishes between nomads as an example that clan is everything and therefore we should accept it as is. My "clan is necessary" copy-edit is far more inclusive to the real roots of the problem of today, which in this case is watering wells and grazing areas. In a situation where these nomads are introduced to more modern technology in the form of rain-water harvesting, cloud seeding and factories to process and develop money-making products, the clan becomes unnecessary and the concept of violence becomes a thing of the past. Similar plans could be employed in the economic, political, military and social sectors to make clan unnecessary for the average Farah or Halimo.

 

That is the difference between you and me big brother, I provide solutions, some attainable tomorrow others we need a few years to reach them, but reach them we will. You however don't stimulate the mind, you only seek to perish the heart, and bury the soul, because in your world nothing good will come from Somalia, we should just forget about it, lose hope, because its one big clan-orgy, hallelujah!

 

Not me!

I like my dreams, and will never feel ashamed about them, in-fact its helping me professionally in multiple ways,

[Tallaabo]

Abtigiis;952229 wrote:

Dear Gabbal,

 

I hear you and I am guilty of many things. Obviously, I am not defending myself here for I am sure I have many foibles. So, I will look through the list of the issues you raised on my person and will deal with those I can and will leave those I can’t shed. Can I count on you doing a bit of introspection and really questioning yourself if hate and clan ego does not motivate you? It may be true that you are an impeccable nationalist we misunderstood, we don’t live with you. We only judge the positions you take in this forum and the last few months were painful to watch.

 

On the Kismaayo issue, people have taken two positions: one group claims to oppose it based on principle, the principle being that the process is foreign-driven and flawed. The other group supports it arguing the process is legitimate and consultative enough. Within both groups, you have people who are sincere and some who are mischievous. It is hard to tell who is sincere and who is using principles to push a sinister agenda. Xinnfanin belongs to one group; Oba Hiloowle belongs to the other. You do not belong to both these groups. What is incontestable is that you have shown lots of ill-will and hate for a particular clan, a clan which you could not resist to badmouth even when you were defending yourself against the charge that you are motivated by clan interest. That level of hate is not normal.

 

(1) It is false to ascribe the Jubbaland issue to Kenya. Kenya may be messing up, Kenya may be doing bad things, but the clans who want this administration will still want the regional administration even if Kenya doesn’t desire it. This is one of the mischiefs I see in your arguments. You twist the facts because acknowledging it defeats your verity. The current geopolitics may be favouring a particular clan to the detriment of the interests of the other clans. That cannot be gainsaid. But to claim that the favoured clan is there simply because Kenya wished it and will disappear if it doesn’t is not true. You peddle that lie with impish abandon. Can you clan chase away the favoured clan if Kenya withdraws? Probably yes. But does that mean that will be the end of the story? Maybe not! So, don’t bring down the bigger historical claim and counter-claims over Kismaayo to the Kenyan invasion alone!

 

(2) In the morning, you imply that you are ready to support the Jubbaland process if it is to lead to particular outcome. In the afternoon, when a different outcome is projected, you reject it. This is what makes you unique and what given the impression that your support or rejection has nothing to do with principle.

 

(3) You are not open-minded about the solution. For instance, it seems you would prefer if war starts in Kismaayo today rather than if a compromise is reached, if that comprise in any way includes a deal that keeps Ahmed Madoobe or a member of his clan in power. It seems you think it is the end of the world if your community does not take the helm in Kismaayo. You must disabuse yourself of this fanaticism. Somalia does not disappear because a particular political settlement in a one town is unjust – assuming it is unjust. There are lots of injustices in the country, but justice is not the exclusive problem of Kismaayo alone nor the priority right now. Pacifying the country and winning the war against Alshabab is the priority. You prefer Alshabab’s revival instead of seeing Ahmed Madoobe ruling Kismaayo. This is abnormal, because Ahmed Madoobe is saying he recognizes the government, but Alshabab doesn’t want to see the government you support. So, how can you support the enemy of the government you purport to like and support? It is this conditional support that scares me about you.

 

There are many things that can be said. Let us just hope I will reflect on the deficiencies you highlighted and you will look at those I raised about you. To the extent each of us finds things to correct and we shed some bad traits and thoughts and we embrace new positive values, this confrontation would be useful.

 

Ngonge,

 

If the driver is zig-zagging the steering and crushing already quarrelling passengers against each other, the first thing to be done is to stop the car and bring on a driver that can steady the car. That is the immediate solution. The durable solution though is to resolve the conflict between the passengers once they are firmly seated in their seats but still not talking to each other.

It may be unfair to focus on Gabbal alone when we have all shown clannish tendencies at one time or another, but I believe he is the worst offender and he is too serious about this clan thing. That is my perception. I don't focus on Oodweyne, and the SL contingent because I know their needlessly solicitous fixation on Kismaayo is to them only part of the larger "Ictiraaf" scheme. Nothing more, nothing less. The Ictiraaf can only come if the south continues to implode, that is the logic. So, whatever ignites fire in the south is to be supported and cheered.

Fantastic response;)

[Taleexi]

I concur Abtigiis, everyone is at fault and President Hassa and Co alone can not fix Somalia problems nevertheless, they are in charge wherever this nation goes in a year or so, good and bad the leadership is to be blamed or commended.

[Abtigiis]

Dismissing far-sighted nationalists who rise above ugly but hegemonic ideas as day dreamers is the natural vocation of implacable political opportunists or naive beings. Chimera is therefore lucky he is guilty of day-dreaming in the context of Somali politics, for the allegation in fact is a confirmation of his status as a bonafide patriot. When faced with the dilemma of either ingesting a filthy reality or embracing a redeeming day-dream, it is far better to pick the latter. You can see and compare the fates of those who have already made their choice: the first choice sired Gabbal, the latter Chimera. It is your choice who you want to be.

 

Taleexi, what you said was the moral of the my post but I allowed my rants against Gabbal and the rest of the cabals in the forum to stultify the conclusions. In truth, I am not very angry with the goat-skinners, I am provoking them.

[Chimera]

^The strange part is that I displayed no sign of "dreaming" in this topic, and NGONGE actually rephrased my point that there is more involved than just the leadership. (i.e getting historically proven leaders like Washington, Churchill or Mutsuhito instead of Mohamud wouldn't change the situation), hence I resented that jab.

 

When I dream its quite clear, and I own up to it with pride.

[nuune]

^^ Actually Ngonge labelled my 2025 vision for Somalia as a dream too, wali jawaab ayaan ka sugayaa why he is not believing banks, healthcare, schools and agriculture as well as marine will not be achieved by 2025(some of the one's I mentioned has alreayd being achieved or in the process of being completed soon). Maybe he doesn't believe rail and airlines as well as airports is something difficult to achieve, airlines as in Somali Airlines is now in the process of being re-estabished, airport, biggest one in East Africa is now being implemented in Mogadishu.

[NGONGE]

^^ Err..nuune, could you find that thread again and see what I wrote to you there? I can't recall it now but I'm more than certain that all my objections still stand.

 

A&T, I still think you're singling Gabaal out as the "bad guy" here when, in reality, we are all bad guys. Gabaal is looking out for his people, in the same way that far off Farole is or even 22 year independent Siilaanyo. Don't wait for Xassan Sheikh to fix things between you and Gabaal, extend him an olive branch and see where that gets you, saaxib.

 

Chimera, this is a political discussion and your dreams don't fit into such a discussion. Of course, I can play the A&T game and stroke your ego with empty words about your amazing nationalism and what not. But I chose to tell you the truth, saaxib. Yours are nothing but daydreams.

 

p.s.

Your reply that you quote above is new to me (can you share link of the thread so that I can at least see the context). Still, it is neither here nor there, saaxib. Even when you attempt to do an analogy between me and you, it is still a daydream of yours about pregnant women and how I would approach them. For the record, I neither will waste my time with the past nor the future, adeer. My main concern (and any normal person who is neither Somali nor a daydreamer) would be with the PRESENT. Wax fahan.

[Chimera]

NGONGE;952352 wrote:

Chimera, this is a political discussion and your dreams don't fit into such a discussion.

You rephrased a political point I made, and then threw a little jab at me for dreaming, you don't see the logical fallacy in this?

 

Of course, I can play the A&T game and stroke your ego with empty words about your amazing nationalism and what not. But I chose to tell you the truth, saaxib. Yours are nothing but daydreams.

This is amusing, it seems NGONGE has latent anger issues with me, even in a topic where I displayed nothing close to a day-dream he attacks me with a knee-jerk reaction about dreams and what not.

 

p.s.

Your reply that you quote above is new to me (can you share the link of the thread so that I can at least see the context). Still, it is neither here nor there, saaxib. Even when you attempt to do an analogy between me and you, it is still a daydream of yours about pregnant women and how I would approach them. For the record, I neither will waste my time with the past nor the future, adeer. My main concern (and any normal person who is neither Somali nor a daydreamer) would be with the PRESENT. Wax fahan.

What a pathetic reply, your all puff but no substance adeer.

[NGONGE]

^^ Err..you claimed that Somalia has the right government when all facts show this government to be nothing but incompetent. Thus, yours must be a daydream.

 

Don't worry about my latent anger issues or whatever new visions that appear in your head about me, adeer. I am simply giving you my understanding of your positions and words.

 

Finally, puff and substance? From YOU? I'm starting to think you're nothing but a troll warya.

[N.O.R.F]

Looks like A&T got Xiin and Zack's SOS PM

[Chimera]

NGONGE;952359 wrote:

^^ Err..you claimed that Somalia has the

right government

when all facts show this government to be nothing but incompetent. Thus, yours must be a daydream.

 

Don't worry about my latent anger issues or whatever new visions that appear in your head about me, adeer. I am simply giving you my understanding of your positions and words.

 

Finally, puff and substance? From YOU? I'm starting to think you're nothing but a troll warya.

Rubbish, if a Democrat says the Obama administration is the right government for America, that is a political opinion, regardless of the so-called "facts" a Republican would pull out of his pants. Your attempt at morphing my political opinion into a day-dream is a clear sign of your intellectual bankrupt argument in reference to me. I support the Federal Government for very important concrete reasons and principles that aren't based on whether the man at the top is my petty uncle, or whether my crappy clan holds the PM seat. All of those day-dreams I displayed from 2006 onwards are coming to fruition slowly but surely, and that is all that matters to me.

 

This Federal government is far from incompetent,

 

1) It regained our national airspace, which means more funding for the Federal budget that in turn will result in better delivery of services.

 

2) It regained our overseas assets.

 

3) Its the first government with the widest political reach in 22 years, and its capacity is growing with an impressive National Stabilization plan.

 

4)It established and maintains a amicable dialogue with Somaliland, instead of degenerate war-talk so characteristic of Somali political discourse.

 

5)Its building its military, with an established road map, in the form of 28 thousand professional Somali soldiers, and a established finish date.

 

6)It has secured funding to double the Somali police force to 12 thousand men.

 

7) It has convinced the Security Council for the first time in 22 years to lift the arms-embargo.

 

8) It is the first government in 22 years to re-establish formal relations with all of the major powers of the world, such as the US and the UK, and several dozen others.

 

9)It has initiated an ambitious health-care reform, that will transform the healthcare sector, including innovative immunization projects.

 

10) It has put into motion a education plan that will put the majority of Somali children back into class-rooms, 40 state-sponsored schools have already been re-opened.

 

11) An important Independent Task Force on Human Rights was introduced by the government, which will be followed by a permanent Human Rights Commission.

 

12) It twarted Kenya's bid at receiving funding for a naval component at the expense of Somalia's reconstituted navy.

 

13) It rejected IGAD's Stabilization plan and won international support for the independent Somali devised plan for national stabilization.

 

14) Its the first Somali government that successfully co-hosted a major conference on Somalia attended by 50 countries.

 

15) The Federal Government's FM Fawzia H. Adam convinced multiple countries to re-establish their embassies in Mogadishu, and has reopened Somali embassies abroad.

 

16) It has re-energized and equipped the Central Bank of Somalia with competent individuals at the helm, and is in the process of a major overhaul that will not only for the first time give an accurate picture of the Somali Economy since the 1980s, but will also result in the stabilization of the increasingly strong Somali currency.

 

17) A new Public Finance Management Policy was introduced and passed for adoption, to keep Somalia's national spending transparent and devoid of corruption

 

18) The Federal Government's PM initiated a successful listening tour across the volatile South, central and northeastern parts of the country which was well received despite the political forks in the road at certain places that remain.

 

19) It re-established ties with the World Banc, IMF and the African Development Bank.

 

20) It signed an important "New Deal" with the G-7 countries which will allow the country to receive funds for reconstruction and development.

 

21) A major tree-planting program was initiated by the government,

 

22) The first government in two decades to address and devising plans to return and uplift the refugees in foreign countries, and the IDPs inside the country.

 

23) It re-established the Somali Post Company for the first time in two decades.

 

24 - The UN Mission to Somalia was relocated directly to Mogadishu after years of operating as the Nairobi Maffia in Kenya.

 

25 - No infighting between the top leaders of the government, be it the president, the prime-minister, the foreign minister or the speaker of the house. This is a MAJOR difference, and perfect example of why this government is both competent, and well suited to lead Somalia out of this darkness.

 

There are many more points, but a non-biased individual can clearly see that my support for the Federal Government is well-rooted and based on actually substance, with not a single point based on a day-dream, this is reality. These points are exactly what I have been praying for since 2006, and finally its materializing. This is a government that has only been in power for less than 9 months, and its already delivering concrete results that is changing the way the world is addressing and engaging Somalia.

 

Does that mean the government is perfect? No government in the history of mankind was, nor in the present, or the future will ever be. The Jubba situation is complex but it takes two to tango, and one cannot just place the blame on the government, or engage in silly conspiracy theories about a single clan domination. I do not entertain such theories, I focus on what's actually happening on the ground. The Jubba situation will not untangle the momentum or the reconstruction drive both in the capital and other parts of the country. There will be a compromise one way or another, both sides have too much at stake to degenerate into a deadly conflict, with Al-Shabaab still lurking around, and one or two egos will surely be wounded, but the country will be the better for it.

 

While you will deny it, but this is the best time to be someone that once dreamed of a better Somalia, because its actually happening:

 

- You have countries re-embracing Somalia as a long lost friend in the form of dozens of accredited ambassadors.

 

- You have billion dollar companies itching to invest in the country.

 

- You have hundreds of thousands of Somalis from the diaspora returning for HOLIDAYS!

 

- You have the capital of the country transforming into one big construction zone.

 

- You have festivals, sports and other social-events happening across the country that depict a better aspect of Somali society.

 

- You have the extremists on the run, and piracy all but wiped out.

 

- You have admirable healthcare and education plans in motion.

 

- You have Somali military and police-force that is becoming stronger, potent and more professional with each passing month.

 

- You have roads and farms reopening, and a increasingly more food-secure country.

 

- You have the Somali Basket Ball team winning games in Africa, and the Somali Taekwondo team winning games in Europe

 

- You have children going back to school.

 

- You have families sojourning at the beach and shopping at new malls.

 

etc.

 

Its clear NGONGE that it is you who is living in a self-imposed nightmare where all of the above is non-existent. Since we are being truthful with eachother, aren't you the one who confessed that you dumped your blue flag under the bed for a different one? Why should I believe anything you contribute with regards to the Federal Government that represents that same blue flag? Should be as simplistic in my reasoning as you by pidgeon holing you, the way you stereotype me as a day-dreaming, by depicting you as a simple spoiler bathing in the nightmares of utter schadenfreude?

 

That would actually make more sense than the non-sequitur you threw at me in the previous post.