Historicizing Tribe

[Safferz]

Haatu;942589 wrote:

I think we should bring it down to an individual level if possible. Offenders should seek forgiveness from the victims in person if possible.

This is why I don't like the suggestion of using Somali customary law, which operates on the basis of group/clan grievance, mediation and compensation. Seems to reinscribe the very seem problems of clan that we're talking about here. I don't think this should be about prosecuting crimes (what the Gacaca system in Rwanda seeks to do), but about opening up a national conversation that will result in the widespread acceptance of everyone's transgressions and hopefully instill faith in the fellow Somali.

[Wadani]

Safferz;942603 wrote:

This is why I don't like the suggestion of using Somali customary law, which operates on the basis of group/clan grievance, mediation and compensation. Seems to reinscribe the very seem problems of clan that we're talking about here.

I don't think this should be about prosecuting crimes (what the Gacaca system in Rwanda seeks to do), but about opening up a national conversation that will result in the widespread acceptance of everyone's transgressions and hopefully instill faith in the fellow Somali

.

But that's wat Somali customary law does though. Our traditional Xeer is notorious for seeking compensation (which is an acceptance of transgression on the part of the guilty party) in lieu of prosecution/punishment.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

I'd like to see Hassan Sheikh Mohamud march into Hargeisa on foot with a fleet of thousands of she-camels, collected from locals of respective regions, running into city and say "Come on bro lets be friends again"

[Safferz]

Wadani;942613 wrote:

But that's wat Somali customary law does though. Our traditional Xeer is notorious for seeking compensation (which is an acceptance of transgression on the part of the guilty party) in lieu of prosecution/punishment.

I think compensation is a form of punishment too, albeit a lesser one than a lengthy prison term or an execution. When I suggested a truth and reconciliation process, I didn't mean putting people on trial.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

A recommended read from SP

 

[Wadani]

SomaliPhilosopher;942614 wrote:

I'd like to see Hassan Sheikh Mohamud march into Hargeisa on foot with a fleet of thousands of she-camels, collected from locals of respective regions, running into city and say "Come on bro lets be friends again"

It would make more sense if leaders from the now defunct M.O.D regime presented the people of waqooyi with the camels. Remember, Hassan Sheikh's clan and the SNM clan were in cahoots during the civil war. Contextualize brother, contextualize.

[SomaliPhilosopher]

Wadani that is indeed true. Though as you said such logistics are futile. Though if we place such compensation under a symbolic realm rather than a exact reenactment of the traditional xeer procedure it is a different story. Hassan Sheikh represents the Somali people and de facto carry's the weight of the civil war history

[Reeyo]

Some good ideas but I am firmly against the 'victim' notions and the 'apology' or xala giving. Ideologically we need to raise above poor ideals like that.

 

Open dialogue yes and integration of clans- But a better focus should be on building a national identity and a neutral recognition of history. We should be working on establishing our shared values and not be petting old wounds like a sick jew with no sense of direction but to complain about Hitler decades later.

Ignorance and licking of old wounds can only last for so long. Sh!t happened, time to get over it and focus on the bigger picture, the future.

 

The only that can be done is for everyone to accept a neutral history, open a discourse and each person equipped with some tools to create an National Somali identity.

[Maqane]

Reeyo;942644 wrote:

Some good ideas but I am firmly against the 'victim' notions and the 'apology' or xala giving. Ideologically we need to raise above poor ideals like that.

 

Open dialogue yes and integration of clans-

But a better focus should be on building a national identity and a neutral recognition of history. We should be working on establishing our shared values and not be petting old wounds like a sick jew with no sense of direction but to complain about Hitler decades later.

Ignorance and licking of old wounds can only last for so long. Sh!t happened, time to get over it and focus on the bigger picture, the future.

 

The only that can be done is for everyone to accept a neutral history, open a discourse and each person equipped with some tools to create an National Somali identity.

+1

[SomaliPhilosopher]

Reeyo as much as I appreciate this new government. It doesn't seem like they have the vision to restore a national identity. Given that, I think such role should be taken by the citizenry- the musicians, the playwrights, the intellectuals, the mothers, the sons.....

[Safferz]

Reeyo;942644 wrote:

The only that can be done is for everyone to accept a neutral history, open a discourse and each person equipped with some tools to create an National Somali identity.

Neutral history does not exist, and I find the idea oppressive. An open confrontation of our recent past and the hearing out of each other's grievances is the only way to rebuild trust in one another as Somalis and move forward.

[Nin-Yaaban]

Is't me or has there been an upswing in 'Tribe' topics here on the General? Looks like the disease has made a jump over from the Politics to the Generals. Nasiib daro.

[Reeyo]

SP-Exactly it would never work if it was a policy or proposed by a non democratic government. To be honest I don't expect anything of the current governments. National identity and pride can't be created by force.

My concern is with those you've just listed and are having this same discuss across the globe. I've seen this conversation a thousand times and it always revolves around this 'he said she said' cycle of shifting blame and presenting corrupt clan histories and repeating the same solutions. Very limiting and backward solutions.

 

Well it's needs to stop on the individual level and focus should be on how can we first start the process of analytically synthesizing our narratives to form a collective. Then we start by being open and educating each other and our kids. Hopefully we should be able to mature from there on.

[Reeyo]

Safferz;942657 wrote:

Neutral history does not exist, and I find the idea oppressive. An open confrontation of our recent past and the hearing out of each other's grievances is the only way to rebuild trust in one another as Somalis and move forward.

This sounds like we need Jeremy Kyle to put us all in his studio while we take turns airing our grievances.

 

Saf, that is ridicules. Emotional hysteria will occur and we will be black in the little black box of fear. Plus it so limiting and short-lived.

[Wadani]

But Reeyo, what about the trust issue? If we sweep everything udner the rug, the wounds will only continue to rot and fester underneath. But I also see where ur coming from, with the likelihood of Somalis listening attentively to each others narratives about the civil war without it turning violent being next to impossible.