Turkey to host three-way talks with presidents of Somalia, Somaliland

[Tallaabo]

malistar2012;936713 wrote:

It gets deep for Silaanyo admin Locals are know supporting FG and are accepting Fg leadership as it stands

 

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Well I can rent a hall in London, decorate the place with flags, get together some unemployed folks to clap and sing, and declare the union of Venus and Mars:) Will that change anything on the ground?

[Homunculus]

Xaaji Xunjuf;936706 wrote:

Legend most regions in SL are all shared there is no region in SL where one clan or sub clan clearly is the majority.

That's not true. If you conduct a referendum based on tribal lines say Maakhir, Khatumo, Awdal, and the rest of Somaliland you can see a huge chunk of

Somaliland choosing a union with Somalia. I thought you accepted a village by village referendum.

[Tallaabo]

Homunculus;936716 wrote:

That's not true. If you conduct a referendum based on tribal lines say Maakhir, Khatumo, Awdal, and the rest of Somaliland you can see

a huge chunk

of

Somaliland choosing a union with Somalia. I thought you accepted a village by village referendum.

I see you conducted a poll in Somaliland;)

[malistar2012]

Well I can rent a hall in London, decorate the place with flags, get together some unemployed folks to clap and sing, and declare the union of Venus and Mars Will that change anything on the ground?

sxb how do you figure they are unemployed? stop insulting Nationalist Somalilanders ,, They are voicing their opinion inside the country and outside.

 

and yes anyone can rent hall in London and practice their freedom of speech unlike Hargesa

[Baashi]

Oodweyne posts while entertaining and fun to read it's Ngonge who has what it takes to sell the package I ain't buying his expired eggs though cuz I can smell them from dhow meter!

 

The beauty of Ngonge’s argument is that it’s simple, clear and well structured. He covers almost all the basis. But that’s where its strength ends. If you are not endowed with critical reasoning abilities the chances are you would buy the whole bucket without inspection.

 

Awoowe the strength of an argument rests on numerous things. Assumption is one of the things on which an argument depends on. Ngonge is making a lot of assumptions here. If SOLers ignore personal biases he brings to the discussion and instead they try to isolate the nerve center of his argument they will find that he makes the following baseless assumptions:

 

1. Khatumo clans have no voice or input in resolving the secession issue.

 

2. President Hassan is a dictator who can make the final call without consulting and ultimately obtaining the votes of two thirds of members of The House of the People of Federal Somali Republic.

 

3. Somaliland administration represents all the regions that historically fall under now defunct former Somaliland British Protectorate.

 

4. Somaliland administration is in full control of SSC and Eastern Sanaag.

 

5. The dispute between Puntland and Somaliland over their overlapping borders is either irrelevant to the discussion or it’s over in favor of SL.

 

If you agree with his assumptions about this issue then SL is on its way to attain the golden cup and adeer Silaanyo is leading the way

[NGONGE]

^^

 

1. Khatumo is in the wilderness as far as this process goes (unless and until Hassan Sheikh brings them aboard, which neither he nor Sharif before him did).

 

2. President Hassan has not (to my knowledge) consulted his parliment nor involved them in the process so far. As for being a dictator, isn't that what his Jubbaland citizens accuse him of? My assumption here did not come out of thin air and I'm sure I did mention Jubbaland as I made it.

 

3. Somaliland represents all those regions since the Somali government did not demand that the distinction be made before agreeing to sit for talks.

 

4. That's besides the point. The Somali government agreed to sit and talk with Somaliland in the full knowledge of these facts.

 

5. Again, PL is represented by the Somali government (as the pictures of Farole sitting behind Sheikh Sharif in Dubai will attest).

 

You are going about it all wrong there, Baashi. For if the Somali government based its argument along such lines it will leave itself open to a compromise deal. I thought the Somali government were adamant that there is no way any part of Somali can breakaway not that Khaatumo is this or Puntland is that!

[xiinfaniin]

Raysul Wasaare Saacid: Waxaan Maqlayay Dad Shaki Ka Qaba Shirka Turkiga

 

 

Xuquuqda Qoraalada, sawirada iyo warbixin kasta waxay gaar u tahay Raxanreeb.com (RBC Radio). Lama adeegsan karo, dib looma daabici karo, lama baahin karo ama kambayuutar laguma keydsan karo si toos ah iyo si dadban intuba, haddii aan fasax laga heysan maamulka Raxanreeb.com (RBC Radio). Fadlan hana xadin

 

Raysul wasaaraha Soomaaliya Cabdi Faarax Shirdoon

 

Addis Ababa (RBC) Raysul wasaaraha xukuumadda federaalka Soomaaliya Cabdi Faarax Shirdoon Saacid oo booqasho qaadatay saddex maalmood ku tagay wadanka Ethiopia ayaa ka hadlay shirka ka dhici doona wadanka Turkiga ee dhexmari doona dawlada Soomaaliyeed iyo maamulka goosi-doonka ee Somaliland bishan bartankeeda.

 

Raysul wasaare Saacid oo wareysi siiyey idaacadda VOA ayaa sheegay inuu maqlay dad su’aalo ka qaba shirka Turkiga ee kasoo hormari doona shirka weyn ee ka dhici doona London horraanta bisha May ee soo socota.

 

“Waxaan maqlayey beryahan dad badan oo shaki ka qaba shirka Turkiga waxaan leeyahay waxba haka shakinina wax aad shareysataan ma jiraan.” ayuu yiri raysul wasaaraha oo fasiraad ka bixinayey shirka.

 

Saacid wuxuu sheegay in shirkani uu qeyb ka yahay shirarka horumarinta dalka iyo amnigiisa looga arrinsanayo, isla markaana uu qeyb ka yahay dadaalada beesha caalamka ee u wajahan Soomaaliya.

 

Hadalka raysul wasaaraha dalka ayaa yimid iyadoo maalmo yar ka harsan yihiin shir ay ka wada qeybgali doonaan masuuliyiinta dawlada Soomaaliyeed iyo maamulka Somaliland kaasoo ka dhici doona magaalada Istanbul ee Turkiga.

 

Shirkan Turkiga ayaa dhaliyey su’aalo badan maadaama kulamo hore u dhexmaray labada dhinac ay ka dheceen wadanka Ingiriiska isla markaana uu jiro shirweyne guud ahaan Soomaaliya looga hadlayo oo ka dhici doona London bisha dambe.

 

Warbixin ay dhowaan qortay Raxanreeb Online ayaa muujineysa in shirka Turkiga ay sidoo kale wax ka wado dawlada Ingiriiska oo shirka London wax ku leh qabashadiisa, iyadoo qodobada looga hadlayo shirka Istanbul ay u badan yihiin iskaashiga dawlada Soomaaliya iyo maamulka Somaliland.

 

Ujeedada ugu weyn ayaa ah in si shirka London uu u noqdo mid wada kulmiya dhammaan Soomaalida oo ay ku jirto Somaliland in ka hor la soo yara dhaweeyo mowqifka ay taagan yihiin maamulayaasha Hargeysa si ay u yimaadaan miiska London iyadoo cinwaanka shirkuna yahay “Soomaaliya”

[xiinfaniin]

NGONGE's argument: Somaliland is well positioned to win a sanctioned separation from Somalia and Somalia is at disadvantage going into this and may, just may, give the game away .

 

And he talks about crystal ball and whatnot.

 

The PM responds :

 

Saacid wuxuu sheegay in shirkani uu qeyb ka yahay shirarka horumarinta dalka iyo amnigiisa looga arrinsanayo, isla markaana uu qeyb ka yahay dadaalada beesha caalamka ee u wajahan Soomaaliya.

[Homunculus]

NGONGE;936727 wrote:

^^

 

3. Somaliland represents all those regions since the Somali government did not demand that the distinction be made before agreeing to sit for talks.

You can't arbitrarily claim that Somaliland represent Eastern Sanaag and Khatumo. Those regions didn't hold elections and are not directly represented in the Somaliland parliament. You can claim sub sub clan out of nowhere claiming allegiance to whoever is paying them money but if you think that the people of that region will have no say in their future, you are greatly mistaken. I find it hypocritical of Somalilanders to want self determination but refuse it to others. Not that I think secession will happen anyway.

[xiinfaniin]

Translation of PM's remarks:

 

Istanbul conference is part of discussions pertaining development and security of Somalia, it is integral part of the efforts of International Community (IC) toward (reviving) Somalia.

[Baashi]

Awoowe waxa la ii qaatay in aan SOL isagga maqnaado sababta oo ah shaqadii bay iga dayaceysaa. Xiin awoowe Ngonge is struggling here so you gotta lend him a hand. On the one hand, he is trying to calm down Oodweyne before he lashes out and indicts adder Siilaanyo and HJ cabbal On the other hand Ngonge wants to sell the project.

 

Ngonge,

 

Again awoowe you are assuming that President Hassan signed off long list of pre-conditions before he agreed to have the meeting. Awoowe waxba lagam aqaban karo all these assumptions you are making out of thin air.

 

True Khatumo is the wilderness because the talks between one of the northern clans represented by their admin and the executive head of post-conflict Somalia. He’s trying to bring them from the cold. Silaanyo is there to put a price tag of the grand compromise.

 

True President Hassan has not consulted House of the People because he does not intend to change the constitution nor does he want to nullify the social contract that brought him to power and set Somalia on the recovery path.

 

Hassan’s administration recalls how happy jubilant residents of Khatumo controlled area were about him winning the presidency. Somali government has Khatumo under its column. Hassan is interested in bringing Habraha from the cold.

 

That’s the crux of the matter. Negotiations are all about leverage. Silaanyo will claim what he could and Hassan knows about clans, where they reside and who controls what area. Unless now defunct British colonial legacy is what Silanyo intends to use as leverage.

 

Yes PL is represented by SFG. At the same token PL is a federal member state with defined borders. I just don’t understand how you could ignore the facts with straight face. The truth is that if Ceerigaabo fate is to be decided one way or another, a national commission has to be appointed.

 

Nah! Awoowe it’s the other way around. Somalia is a sovereign state with recognized borders. It is a recovering state. It has challenges and obstacles to overcome. World powers are helping post-conflict Somalia meet these challenges. Secessionists noise is a one line of a long list of monumental challenges Somalia has to overcome.

[xiinfaniin]

Baashi,

 

NGONE tables a passionate defense of Somaliland's case. But ask him the question of Khatumo (which questions the core of Somaliland's existence, not the 3 mothers clans, but as a political authority on former British Somaliland) and you see his argument falter and crumble. The question has always been on what grounds (legal and political) will Somaliland secede ? Who are the real political stakeholders for the regions claimed? These are questions that transcend emotions, catchphrases, and put the perhaps strongest currency the separatist have, democratic exercise i.e. elections in context.

 

The Federal Government sit down and signed agreement with the other existing political administration, namely Puntland. That it sits down and seek understanding with Somaliland is politically understandably and from a reconciliation standpoint a very necessary effort to unify the country. Separatists can and will spin the fanfare surrounding the meeting at Stanbul, but in substance and with respect to the over all IC efforts toward Somalia, it follows a pattern and one can very much predict the outcome ...

[NGONGE]

Homunculus;936745 wrote:

You can't arbitrarily claim that Somaliland represent Eastern Sanaag and Khatumo. Those regions didn't hold elections and are not directly represented in the Somaliland parliament. You can claim sub sub clan out of nowhere claiming allegiance to whoever is paying them money but if you think that the people of that region will have no say in their future, you are greatly mistaken. I find it hypocritical of Somalilanders to want self determination but refuse it to others. Not that I think secession will happen anyway.

I do not arbitratily claim anything saaxib. I simply answered Baashi's point. Read it again.

 

Xiin,

 

It can't be a crystal ball if I say this may happen. That's the difference between you and me, saaxib. Where I give probabilities (even impartial ones) you try to convince us that yours are facts (crystal ball facts of course). Wax fahan.

[xiinfaniin]

^^LOL

 

It is all in your head, NGONGE. My take on all things Somaliland has not changed. I have been repeating a same line of thinking with respect to the question of secession. Whether it is a crystal ball or not is a matter of interpretation.

[NGONGE]

Baashi,

 

This is what the two sides agreed. Do you see any PL or Khaatumo mention?

 

President Hassan had no say in the matter. It was Sharif's government that agreed to these talks and the scope of the talks. It's all about clarifying the future relationship between the two sides (not PL, not Khaatumo). Everything I wrote in my second reply to you falls within this agreement. Are we going to move the goal posts now?

 

As for Oodweyne, I'm not sure if you've been paying attention but his opposition to the Kulmiye government was all rooted in the fact that he thinks they're being too soft on the Somali Federal Government.

 

Again, read the document and ka fakir...