Turkey to host three-way talks with presidents of Somalia, Somaliland

[xiinfaniin]

^^Seriously

 

Formalities cannot obscure core and real issues on the ground, NGONGE.

[NGONGE]

^^ Formalities are the bedrock of any discussion, saaxib. I told you that Somalia made a mistake by agreeing to these talks in the first place.

[xiinfaniin]

^^I don't think Somalia made a mistake by sitting down with Somaliland administration, awoowe. How else would Somalia overcome the challenge ...if not talking to them

 

What you are suggesting is that simply because the federal government is tasked to sit down with Somaliland and resolve any issues regarding (lets face it) the position of Somaliland as a separate country overrides the existence of Khatumo, and Puntland as a political forces/realities that counter SL's argument (which bolster government's argument).

 

Come again

[NGONGE]

^^ PL & Khaatumo in this instance are the Federal Government's problem and not Somaliland's. The terms for the talks are clear, saaxib. I can't keep repeating it for you dee. Wax fahan.

[Johnny B]

Somalis and talking ... I say that with a straight face since we Somalis love talking and I am "ina Warsame".

The good thing is Atheer Hassan will talk with Atheer Ahmed or Culusow will talk Silanyo ( if you dislike them and their clans ), the bad thing and the only one in fact is it has to be done in another (though friendly ) country, and that is the logical reason to accept that we've a political difference to solve in here.

Now, though we seem to differ on the art of our differences (politically that is ), yet we're all aware of the possibilities ahead to solve them , you may wonder how do we know? , and the answer is simple, you as a separatist have tried all other options and so did I as a unionist.

 

At this stage had we arrived at the Somali mind-set of " hadda iyo dan" , and it is this very mind-set that disturbs the Somali psyche, as it connotes a slight hint of defeat ( refer to the Guru's Axiomatic " defeated lot" or Xiin's "looters inc" or Baashe's "Queen's orphans ") or disappointment in an endeavour. Our brothers from the North seem to think they'd a referendum , and an open election , so a "Koofurian" can not question the will of their people but In my humble opinion the kids of "Dhoobley" has as much as the ones of "Hargeisa" ,to say about any eventual dismemberment of their country, namely Somalia, Having said that and I know this sounds crazy, Somalia should try dismembering the country into whatever clan-

Fiefdoms,in case , just in case we've a shot on African Taiwan.

Lastly i'd like to say this ,There is nothing clannish about Somaliland but every Somali is clannish, if this doesn't make sense in your world, you belong to the winners because there are talks between us, but if it does make sense in your world, you belong to the losers because you don't know what the talks are about, and we'll fall into either of the categories.

[xiinfaniin]

NGONGE,

 

Last time i checked Khatumo was a thorn on SL's side. Since when did you turn the tables waryee? Or you would do/say anything to defend the mere formalities put in place to start the discussion ?

 

I guess we don't have to go back and forth on this as we will find out soon.

[Baashi]

Ngonge,

 

If this is all you got then we don't have anything to discuss . Since this discussion is not going anywhere the best thing to do is to wait the outcome of the upcoming meeting.

 

https://p.twimg.com/Av6wsgHCAAAj1vX.jpg:large

[STOIC]

Ngonge, it staggers the mind to think that these folks will read your cocktail of sensible take of their federal government blunder with open mind..Lets just wait for the verdict from the meeting.The Somaliland stand is beyond the blithe and the illogical drivel we read here e

[Tallaabo]

Johnny B;936774 wrote:

Somalis and talking ... I say that with a straight face since we Somalis love talking and I am "ina Warsame".

The good thing is Atheer Hassan will talk with Atheer Ahmed or Culusow will talk Silanyo ( if you dislike them and their clans ), the bad thing and the only one in fact is it has to be done in another (though friendly ) country, and that is the logical reason to accept that we've a political difference to solve in here.

Now, though we seem to differ on the art of our differences (politically that is ), yet we're all aware of the possibilities ahead to solve them , you may wonder how do we know? , and the answer is simple, you as a separatist have tried all other options and so did I as a unionist.

 

At this stage had we arrived at the Somali mind-set of " hadda iyo dan" , and it is this very mind-set that disturbs the Somali psyche, as it connotes a slight hint of defeat ( refer to the Guru's Axiomatic " defeated lot" or Xiin's "looters inc" or Baashe's "Queen's orphans ") or disappointment in an endeavour. Our brothers from the North seem to think they'd a referendum , and an open election , so a "Koofurian" can not question the will of their people but In my humble opinion the kids of "Dhoobley" has as much as the ones of "Hargeisa" ,to say about any eventual dismemberment of their country, namely Somalia, Having said that and I know this sounds crazy, Somalia should try dismembering the country into whatever clan-

Fiefdoms,in case , just in case we've a shot on African Taiwan.

Lastly i'd like to say this ,There is nothing clannish about Somaliland but every Somali is clannish, if this doesn't make sense in your world, you belong to the winners because there are talks between us, but if it does make sense in your world, you belong to the losers because you don't know what the talks are about, and we'll fall into either of the categories.

A kid in Dhoobley may have a say in the dismemberment of SOMALIA but he/she does not have any say in the dissolution of the SOMALI REBUBLIC. The former Somali Republic was created by the voluntary union of two independent states and is now languishing in the trash bin of history in the company of neighbours like Yugoslavia and the USSR because of disunion of those two independent nations. Like president Maxamed Xaaji Ibrahim Cigaal (AUN) said he was never a citizen of Somalia but a citizen of the Somalia Republic, the kid in Dhoobley is now only a citizen of Somalia and not the Somali Republic(it no longer exists) or Somaliland(another country) so will have no say in our affairs.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

The talks are happening between Somalia and Somaliland i will not be surprised if they the 2 sides agree to have a 3rd party involved in the process of these talks in the later talks as an outcome. As they did in the previous talks requested to have legal experts in the upcoming conference these talks are a process and they are heading towards the official dissolution of the failed union. You have to understand where hassan is coming from,hassan from his point of view and the HAG clique wants a union but not at all cost ,but not even from hassans perspective the international community wants a peaceful solution, and they will put it in such a way that hassan and co will not be linked to insubordination so that he will be seen as some one who tried his best. It will not even get to the parliament of Somalia as they themselves were grouped together and organized by the IC with a strict mandate. You guys have to see these talks as a way to solve the long conflict between SL and Somalia, the IC was busy fixing Somalia the past 21 years while Somaliland continued to exist as a defacto state, with minimum support the IC was fine with that the IC was always very neutral when it came to the SL case , but since Somalia was in turmoil. The other side had to have something that resembles a goverment in order to reach a final settlement between SL and Somalia.

[RedSea]

Is it just me or is Somalia getting ahead of itself? I do not think the Muqdisho based government has the capacity to talk to Somaliland when there are other things that need to be resolved, like the Jubbaland fiasco, the Marka land grab among other things. Somalia is doing so many things at once without doing any of them right.

[Xaaji Xunjuf]

Well they are dowlad rasmi as they call it shouldnt they act like one according to baashi the new government can impose sanctions on somaliland.

[STOIC]

I feel bad for the regular Somali folks feeding off this perilous hallucination of leaders on both side.While I risk spitting out unqualified certainty before the so called meeting ; am just leaning on to believe that nothing will come of this meeting when all said and done. Somaliland will stay on its course and Somalia will go home happy to the folks that have invested their aspirations and hopes on this fragile state!

[Ace of Spadez]

These talks are not going anywhere fast. Neither side has any room to budge. Somaliland will not get their de jure recognition from Somalia. Nor will Somalia witness Somaliland sacrificing their Sovereignty for another union.

 

So what is the objective of these talks in the first place?

Well it gives everybody something to feel good about.

 

For Somalia:

The government can tell its public they‘re actively pursuing Somali Unity by engaging in direct talks with Somaliland. This will also give it some credibility in the eyes of the international community for engaging with Somaliland as opposed to wishing away the elephant in the room. This in turn would provide it continued international aid.

 

For Somaliland:

The government can explain to the public that it is actively pursuing de jure recognition of Somaliland and will make every effort to do so by even having talks with the country Somaliland has dissolved their former union. It will also give Somaliland the opportunity let the world know about the conflict between Somaliland & Somalia. This will create a narrative that Somaliland can eventually build on to further their cause. Somaliland will also benefit by getting their share of the aid directly as the trips to Turkey & UAE indicate.

 

Then if these talks are not going to go anywhere why bother?

 

Somaliland is strategically playing for the long haul. On their side, they have possession of the territory they claim minus a few hamlets. By paying lip service to these talks to get aid they will get to improve their economy and infrastructure and thereby strengthening Somaliland as a country. So far it has been able to resist the perils of accepting such aid by informing the UK, it will not attend the May 7th conference despite the UK’s repeated requests for Somaliland be present. It will also get the world involved in the Somaliland-Somalia impasse. This is crucial in getting Somaliland to thwart off any diplomatic pressure Somalia may have attempted by putting this conflict out there for all to witness in the international community.

 

Somalia on the other hand doesn’t have the luxury of a strategy. They’re too busy putting out too many fires and need one less problem to deal with. They’d happily defer any serious talks with Somaliland so they can focus on the more imminent issues like Federalism, Jubaland, Al-Shabaab, creating an army, government institutions etc.

 

The way these talks are structured, foreshadow what is to come. Ngonge & Odweyne are spot on to highlight the nuances of how these talks have started and are proceeding. Anyone who doesn’t understand the precedents that are being set with these talks and how the narrative has been changed forever is simply deluding themselves.

[Tallaabo]

^^ Well said