To the non-gang-affiliated Somali brothers - A survival guide for the West.

[Guzel]

Your suggestion is not practical.

[Chimera]

Wadani;935268 wrote:

This is required at times if warranted. If degenerate lifestyles arent stigmatized within our communities and those who adopt them aren't held responsible for the outcome of their actions (yes even death) the problem will only get worse.

Cara made an illogical point. Non-affiliated Somali men do not operate with a mentality of street A belongs to gang X and street B belongs to gang Y so I must avoid them at all cost. A Somali gang-banger knows all the places he should never be in by himself. This makes the recurring theme of an innocent person on the periphery getting killed due to gang-violence more than the gang-members themselves absolutely understandable, and telling law-abiding men to join criminal organisation is not the solution.

 

My point with the topic was that law-abiding Somali men should be more alert, and make sure they don't find themselves in such a situation.

[AfricaOwn]

Chimera;935271 wrote:

This makes the recurring theme of an innocent person on the periphery getting killed due to gang-violence more than the gang-members themselves absolutely understandable, and telling law-abiding men to join criminal organisation is not the solution.

 

The stats say most of the victims are "known to police" , now what does that mean to you?

[Che -Guevara]

Wadani;935268 wrote:

This is required at times if warranted. If degenerate lifestyles arent stigmatized within our communities and those who adopt them aren't held responsible for the outcome of their actions (yes even death) the problem will only get worse.

These boys were plucked from war zone and thrown into ghetto centers of the west with no father figures (even if the father is physically present). Do you really expect them to take the straight path?

 

lol@AfricaOWn Every black male is known in the inner cities to police whether he is guilty of anything or not.

[Chimera]

AfricaOwn;935272 wrote:

The stats say most of the victims are "known to police" , now what does that mean to you?

What stats, any evidence you can provide to corroborate that statement, especially the part: "most of the victims"?

[Safferz]

AfricaOwn;935272 wrote:

The stats say most of the victims are "known to police" , now what does that mean to you?

And what do you think it means? Because you'd be surprised at how little qualifies as "known to police."

[AfricaOwn]

Chimera;935274 wrote:

What stats, any evidence you can provide to corroborate that statement, especially the part: "most of the victims"?

Fine

 

Did a quick search on the latest shootings involving Somalis, and they were all "known to police", (you can take that however you want it)

 

1. http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/06/04/eaton_centre_shooting_gangs_changed_everything_says_suspects_father.html

 

2. http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/09/19/dimanno_deadly_bangs_and_two_deaths_end_a_quiet_summer_in_citys_northwest.html

 

3. http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/09/09/killer_fled_in_car_of_homicide_victim_abdulaziz_farah_police_say.html

[AfricaOwn]

Che -Guevara;935273 wrote:

 

lol@AfricaOWn Every black male is known in the inner cities to police whether he is guilty of anything or not.

visit your local police station to help you define the term "Known to police", they'll tell you it means that the person was involved with criminal activity in the past.

[Chimera]

AfricaOwn;935278 wrote:

Fine

 

Did a quick search on the latest shootings involving Somalis, and they were all "known to police", (you can take that however you want it)

 

1.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/06/04/eaton_centre_shooting_gangs_changed_everything_says_suspects_father.html

 

2.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/09/19/dimanno_deadly_bangs_and_two_deaths_end_a_quiet_summer_in_citys_northwest.html

 

3.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2012/09/09/killer_fled_in_car_of_homicide_victim_abdulaziz_farah_police_say.html

I don't care about gang-bangers, I'm worried about boys like these:

 

1. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jul/27/ukguns.news

 

2. http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/85773/Teenage-boy-murdered-by-knife-gang-in-race-attack

 

3. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-88784/Schoolboy-stabbed-death-lunch-hour.html

 

A different school, a different neighbourhood could have made the difference. Allahu calam.

[Safferz]

AfricaOwn;935280 wrote:

visit your local police station to help you define the term "Known to police", they'll tell you it means that the person was involved with criminal activity in the past.

Umm wrong, just as I suspected, which is why I asked you what *you* think it means. "Known to police" means you've been stopped by the police and asked for your identifying information, which is then documented and entered into the system. This is something that happens disproportionately to young black men, both in low-income, overpoliced, majority black neighbourhoods and when (perhaps even more so) they're seen by police officers in white neighbourhoods. White children in the suburbs, even when asked a question by a cop, are rarely *documented* for it.

 

Here are a few excerpts from a Toronto Star investigation, "Known to police: Toronto police stop and document black and brown people far more than whites":

 

 

"A Star analysis of Toronto police stop data from 2008 to mid-2011 shows that the number of young black and brown males aged 15 to 24 documented in each of the city’s 72 patrol zones is greater than the actual number of young men of colour living in those areas.

Young white males and those designated as “other” do attract police attention, but nothing as pronounced as black and brown youth."

 

"On a patrol-zone level — there are 72 in Toronto — the Star looked at the ratio of individual young males, aged 15 to 24, who were documented to the actual population of young males in that age group.

Obviously, not everybody who is documented in a patrol zone lives there. Police say nearly all of the people documented in the zone that includes the Entertainment District — a place where people from all over to work and play — do not live there.

The ratios of young men documented in that area, known as zone 523, to the numbers who live there are huge, since relatively few people live in that zone to begin with. For young black males, for example, the ratio of individuals documented to the population there is 252:1. For brown young males, it is 65:1. For young white males, 23:1."

 

"While blacks make up 8.3 per cent of Toronto’s population, they accounted for 25 per cent of the cards filled out between 2008 and mid-2011. In each of the city’s 72 patrol zones, blacks are more likely than whites to be stopped and carded. The likelihood increases in areas that are predominantly white."

[AfricaOwn]

^^^

 

You're the one that typed:

 

"A Somali gang-banger knows all the places he should never be in by himself. This makes the recurring theme of an innocent person on the periphery getting killed due to gang-violence more than the gang-members themselves"

 

I just disagree

[Chimera]

AfricaOwn;935284 wrote:

^^^

 

You're the one that typed:

 

"A Somali gang-banger knows all the places he should never be in by himself. This makes the recurring theme of an innocent person on the periphery getting killed due to gang-violence more than the gang-members themselves

absolutely understandable

"

 

I just disagree

And I typed the bolded part that you left out as well. Good job in twisting my words out of context. Nowhere did I proclaim all Somali men murdered in the last decade were "innocent", that was a knee-jerk reaction from Cara, and if that were to be the case, it would be absolutely understandable for the very reason I mentioned above.

 

This doesn't mean a gang-banger can't find himself at the wrong place at the wrong time, because I never said that.

[Showqi]

AfricaOwn is absolutely right. If the individual has a criminal record that means he or she was already known by the Police becauce that person was charge or convicted for a crime.

[Safferz]

Showqi;935286 wrote:

AfricaOwn is absolutely right. If the individual has a criminal record that means he or she was already known by the Police becauce that person was charge or convicted for a crime.

Once again -- "known to police" says NOTHING about criminality and is overwhelmingly the result of documenting minority youth in non-criminal encounters:

 

Safferz;935283 wrote:

Umm wrong, just as I suspected, which is why I asked you what *you* think it means. "Known to police" means you've been stopped by the police and asked for your identifying information, which is then documented and entered into the system. This is something that happens disproportionately to young black men, both in low-income, overpoliced, majority black neighbourhoods and when (perhaps even more so) they're seen by police officers in white neighbourhoods. White children in the suburbs, even when asked a question by a cop, are rarely *documented* for it.

 

Here are a few excerpts from a Toronto Star investigation,

"Known to police: Toronto police stop and document black and brown people far more than whites"

:

 

 

"A Star analysis of Toronto police stop data from 2008 to mid-2011 shows that the number of young black and brown males aged 15 to 24 documented in each of the city’s 72 patrol zones is greater than the actual number of young men of colour living in those areas.

Young white males and those designated as “other” do attract police attention, but nothing as pronounced as black and brown youth."

 

"On a patrol-zone level — there are 72 in Toronto — the Star looked at the ratio of individual young males, aged 15 to 24, who were documented to the actual population of young males in that age group.

Obviously, not everybody who is documented in a patrol zone lives there. Police say nearly all of the people documented in the zone that includes the Entertainment District — a place where people from all over to work and play — do not live there.

The ratios of young men documented in that area, known as zone 523, to the numbers who live there are huge, since relatively few people live in that zone to begin with. For young black males, for example, the ratio of individuals documented to the population there is 252:1. For brown young males, it is 65:1. For young white males, 23:1."

 

"While blacks make up 8.3 per cent of Toronto’s population, they accounted for 25 per cent of the cards filled out between 2008 and mid-2011. In each of the city’s 72 patrol zones, blacks are more likely than whites to be stopped and carded. The likelihood increases in areas that are predominantly white."

[Che -Guevara]

AfricaOwn;935280 wrote:

visit your local police station to help you define the term "Known to police", they'll tell you it means that the person was involved with criminal activity in the past.

I dealt with cops and the courts. And every black male is known to the cops.