Jubbaland will not be built this way.

[Carafaat]

Baashi, you cant possibly expect the Federal Goverment to give in so soon. They have already appointed the Shabbele, Gedo, Hiiraan, Bay and Gedo admins. Next step is to appoint the admins for Middle and Lower Jubba. The Federal Goverment has also already started to establish the Judiciary, this is a necessity, in order to give judicial clarification which this issue is.

 

And actually its the Parliament that has to appoint the Federal States Committee, to draw up the borders and mandates of State and come up with recommendations.(See article 49.1 to 49.5).

 

Calan baa shalay meel laga taagay clearly isnt enough leverage.

[Baashi]

Don't have time for this as I'm at work.

 

Carafaat let's up this game and look at the big picture. I am assuming the reason you are against folk's desire to assemble and determine what kind of government works for them -- Federal State or government appointed through presidential decree by the center is becuase you are nationalist and hate to see clan-based fiefdoms which in the long run will surely weaken the power of central government as the formation of the federal member states add a "veto" power to the democratic process?

 

Or is there another reason that makes you oppose this particular gathering and folk's desire to decide what type of government they want and who should lead them?

[Baashi]

Carafaat;934501 wrote:

And actually its the Parliament that has to appoint the Federal States Committee, to draw up the borders and mandates of State and come up with recommendations.(See article 49.1 to 49.5).

I didn't see that part of your post.

 

You misunderstood this clause. Or you are not reading the document in its entirety. Or perhaps your exercising your wish to pick and choose the ones that may suit you in arguing against the democratice process in the Jubba. Please refer to the thread NORF posted. By the way you are not alone in getting confused numerous nomads seems to have the same issue your having.

 

Federalism is the law of the land. Two or more administrative provinces of the pre-1991 eighteen provinces may form a federal state if they so desire. If and when folks exersize this option then the parlaiment will look into and resolve any clan disputes. The borders as well as districts in each administrative province are known and well defined hence the reason folks chose them as template for the federal system. Galkacyo, Ceerigaabo, Ximan/Galmudug these are scenerios folks had in mind when these clauses are added to the document.

 

Don't confuse yourself with these clauses. Try to have the basis of your conviction covered first. Read my prev post.

[Dabrow]

I agree. It shall be built with the blessing of somali goverment not by nairobi and their somali lackeys ras kamboni.

[Baashi]

Dabrow;934517 wrote:

I agree. It shall be built with the blessing of somali goverment not by nairobi.

 

How about I agree with that people not central bureaucrats nor presidential decree in far away locality shall decide what type of local government suits them Or I agree with the people have the right to exercise their constitutional rights to form a federal state

 

By the way the man you said you agree with wants Baardheere nor Bu'aale (for clannish reason I suspect) ti be the capital of the new state. Check with him

[Carafaat]

Baashi, good questions saxiib. I just arrived at work and shall respond later in the evening.

[Macallinka]

The Zack;934489 wrote:

Jubbaland reer Cabduwaaq baa la weydiin lahaa miyaa mise the HAG masters in Xamar baa duco laga sugi lahaa, WW? WW, waa kugu raacsanahay what you said. Ugaas Xaashi is talking right now live at the cermony. Cabduwaaq can chill.

lool Mayee Jigjiga ayaa la waydiin lahaa.

[Dabrow]

Baashi;934520 wrote:

 

How about I agree with that people not central bureaucrats nor presidential decree in far away locality shall decide what type of local government suits them

Or I agree with the people have the right to exercise their constitutional rights to form a federal state

 

By the way the man you said you agree with wants Baardheere nor Bu'aale (for clannish reason I suspect) ti be the capital of the new state. Check with him

You are naive bashi. The man you suspect for having clannish reason never mention Bardheere nor buaale. This was injected by a mere guess.

 

I know you want to portay this version of jubbaland as locally and by its people. As side from this grand delusion its in the end a choice by wanting a somali controlled state or a kenyan controlled one. Im sure somalis of all clan background will never accept this project in this form.

[gooni]

Waa siduu gabal u sheegay waa shinbirayahow heesa waliba hees wanaagsan laguma hayo

Xalaal dharaar baa la qashaa, deg degaan indha la'aanta iyo reer caabudwaaq ha laga cararo reer godayna wafdi ha looga yeero

doorashaduna intaan korontadu tagin ha la qabto dastuurkana kan kenya ha la waafajiyo inaysan caafimaad keenayn cid kastaa waa u jeedaa.

[xiinfaniin]

Dabrow;934543 wrote:

You are naive bashi. The man you suspect for having clannish reason never mention Bardheere nor buaale. This was injected by a mere guess.

 

I know you want to portay this version of jubbaland as locally and by its people. As side from this grand delusion its in the end a choice by wanting a somali controlled state or a kenyan controlled one. Im sure somalis of all clan background will never accept this project in this form.

How about this Dabrow, from Gabal himself---this was the basis of my guesswork:

 

Gabbal;933760 wrote:

....

 

Personally, and obviously there is some bias in this, but if Kismaayo will not become the capital of Jubbaland it makes sense Baardheere, the second largest city in the Jubba Valley and in the middle of the Jubba Valley to assume that position. After Kismaayo, it is the town capable of hosting a strong federal state in the Jubba Valley. The pro-Baardheere lobby was so strong the capital was not ratified and will be deliberated once more.

[xiinfaniin]

gooni;934553 wrote:

Waa siduu gabal u sheegay waa shinbirayahow heesa waliba hees wanaagsan laguma hayo

Xalaal dharaar baa la qashaa, deg degaan indha la'aanta iyo reer caabudwaaq ha laga cararo reer godayna wafdi ha looga yeero

doorashaduna intaan korontadu tagin ha la qabto dastuurkana kan kenya ha la waafajiyo inaysan caafimaad keenayn cid kastaa waa u jeedaa.

reer Caabudwaaq are important stakeholders in the emerging state of Ca-Ga-Hiiraan land , they have nothing to do with Jubbaland .

 

It is rather reer Gedo whom the state could not do without their presence, they are indeed at the Conference at every level of the organizing committees of this conference. Their content with how things are moving in Kismayo is manifested by the presence of their traditional and political leaders in Kismayo .

[Mario B]

Baashi;934520 wrote:

 

How about I agree with that people not central bureaucrats nor presidential decree in far away locality shall decide what type of local government suits them

Or I agree with the people have the right to exercise their constitutional rights to form a federal state

Is that how you view your President/PM as the other from a far locality who has no business in your neck of the woods? :confused:

[Gabbal]

Xii and Baashi, according to facilitators of this conference Kismaayo is the temporary capital and the permanent capital will be decided by the parliament to be between three locations: Bu'aale, Baardheere, Kismaayo.

 

I would hope both of you have some respect to cease making excuses for why I have said what I have said.

 

The problem lies with the strategy pursued. Madoobe and Kambooni found themselves under an act of benevolence granted by a Kenyan political and military interference in the outset of the campaign to remove Shabaab. The government then, under a remarkable stretch of reconciliation, attempted to appeal to them rather than delegitimizing them and using its new found leverage to situate itself in the political reemergence of the state in that corner.

 

It is true many are in this conference now, including some strong names from my ends of the woods, but you mistake support to an idea into for actual loyalty to this process.

 

The process before us is like the desert and all the fanfare a mirage. Two Kenyan political officers and their fuits born in Naivaisha will not be reared in the garden ot Somalia. You have only to see how the landscap changed when this daring feat was implemented and what the leverage and strength of the Somali government. You know the strength of this government, it is certainly stronger than your caravan could ever have wielded in such a short time.

 

It could also be that I am wrong and people like Aw-Libaax are right. Time will tell.

[xiinfaniin]

Gabal,

 

I take it you are vowing to oppose the soon to be established Jubbaland state, not out of disagreement of what it is being attempted to be achieved, but out of envy (for a lack of better word) of those who are leading the initiative. That is too emotional of an argument to be rebutted awoowe.

 

But let me say this: majority of the three regions are on the same page on the establishment of Jubbaland federal state. As always, there will be local opposition ...and they will come on board, eventually.

[Haatu]

xiinfaniin;934633 wrote:

Gabal,

 

I take it you are vowing to oppose the soon to be established Jubbaland state, not out of disagreement of what it is being attempted to be achieved, but out of envy (for a lack of better word) of those who are leading the initiative. That is too emotional of an argument to be rebutted awoowe.

 

But let me say this: majority of the three regions are on the same page on the establishment of Jubbaland federal state. As always, there will be local opposition ...and they will come on board, eventually.

His objection is nothing else.